Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest QB

[Sparetire]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Two more before the conversation becomes about who is second best. Until then there are still guys in the discussion even if Brady has 4 rings.

Like who? the only one i can think of is, of course, Montana.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Like who? the only one i can think of is, of course, Montana.

All you need is one more to make it a conversation. Montana is enough. I still think Marino and Manning stay in the conversation if Brady wins another one. Obviously the argument gets more compelling for Brady with 4 rings, but I don't think it's a slam dunk until he gets 5.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Two more before the conversation becomes about who is second best. Until then there are still guys in the discussion even if Brady has 4 rings.

If he goes on to win another SB that will be at least 6 confrence championships, 50% higher than the next in line Montana and Bradshaw.

Then there is his regular season winning % highest of any qb by a substantial margin, currently 78% vs 71% for MOntana for example. More playoff win by at least 3 and on and on. By the time his career ends no one will need a book it will be obivious.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

If he goes on to win another SB that will be at least 6 confrence championships, 50% higher than the next in line Montana and Bradshaw.

Then there is his regular season winning % highest of any qb by a substantial margin, currently 78% vs 71% for MOntana for example. More playoff win by at least 3 and on and on. By the time his career ends no one will need a book it will be obivious.

Legions of idiots would say Montana was 4-0 in "the big game" while Brady was 4-2.

Then we the informed would point out that in Montana's 5th and 6th most successful seasons he also lost his last game, and it happened even before the Super Bowl, meaning he didn't even make it there.

unable to grasp this relatively straightforward concept, the legions of idiots would stammer and say "but Montana was 4-0 in the big game while Brady was 4-2."

 

[Guts]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Legions of idiots would say Montana was 4-0 in "the big game" while Brady was 4-2.

Then we the informed would point out that in Montana's 5th and 6th most successful seasons he also lost his last game, and it happened even before the Super Bowl, meaning he didn't even make it there.

unable to grasp this relatively straightforward concept, the legions of idiots would stammer and say "but Montana was 4-0 in the big game while Brady was 4-2."

Easily counter that with "Montana ha the greatest wide receiver of all time" It's pretty much endless debate

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Legions of idiots would say Montana was 4-0 in "the big game" while Brady was 4-2.

Then we the informed would point out that in Montana's 5th and 6th most successful seasons he also lost his last game, and it happened even before the Super Bowl, meaning he didn't even make it there.

unable to grasp this relatively straightforward concept, the legions of idiots would stammer and say "but Montana was 4-0 in the big game while Brady was 4-2."

Agreed, with 4 most sane people will probably give it to Brady, but I bet some will still try to say Montana was better. Marino may stay in the discussion as well somehow. But 5 rings would clinch it.

I feel like it's the same deal with BB, 4 would make many say GOAT, 5 would cement it.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Even with 5, the idiots will find a way to discount the 1st 3 with the "spygate" BS. Brady will never win these haters over. EVER. People are sitting around discussing Brady's age and how much he may have left in the tank, while overrating Manning and making arguments about Denver making the playoffs this year, where Manning by the way is older and a lot more handicapped than Brady.

With no more rings Brady will still go down as the GOAT, IMO. Even Rice made Steve Young look good.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Legions of idiots would say Montana was 4-0 in "the big game" while Brady was 4-2.

Then we the informed would point out that in Montana's 5th and 6th most successful seasons he also lost his last game, and it happened even before the Super Bowl, meaning he didn't even make it there.

unable to grasp this relatively straightforward concept, the legions of idiots would stammer and say "but Montana was 4-0 in the big game while Brady was 4-2."

I think it's a reasoble argument, especially considering Montana's super bowl numbers, which are pretty stellar IIRC. This is one of the reasons that it will take 5 SBs for Brady to unequivocally stand alone.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

I think it's a reasoble argument, especially considering Montana's super bowl numbers, which are pretty stellar IIRC. This is one of the reasons that it will take 5 SBs for Brady to unequivocally stand alone.

Of course Montana's performances when he failed to win ghe conference championships and get to the SB don't match up to Brady's performances when his teams got yo the game.

Also Brady's regular season WL % is MUCH higher than Montana's.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Of course Montana's performances when he failed to win ghe conference championships and get to the SB don't match up to Brady's performances when his teams got yo the game.

Also Brady's regular season WL % is MUCH higher than Montana's.

And yet when Montana made it to the biggest game he was undefeated and played at an extremely high level. SB MVP in 3 of 4 appearances. Rating >100 in all 4 games.

Yes, Brady's win % is higher but Montana still has >70% win pct. it's not like he was bad in the regular season. Honestly, that's as much belichick as it is Brady. Belichick > Walsh.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Of course Montana's performances when he failed to win the conference championships and get to the SB don't match up to Brady's performances when his teams got to the game.

And yet when Montana made it to the biggest game he was undefeated...

My friend, it doesn't matter if you play the Queen after the King.

The King still trumps you.

To even suggest that 4-0 in the Super Bowl is better than 4-2 in the Super Bowl ~ or 4-17, for God's Sake!! ~ is so vapid that it is TERRIFYING...And yet I know damned well that MANY will say just that!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

All other things being equal...

QB #1 advances to the Divisional Round...and gets beaten.

QB #2 WINS the Divisional Round AND wins the Conference Championship, then advances to the Super Bowl, puts his team in a place to win it, and falls an INCH short of winning the Championship.

All other things being equal...

Who had the better year??

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

All other things being equal...

QB #1 advances to the Divisional Round...and gets beaten.

QB #2 WINS the Divisional Round AND wins the Conference Championship, then advances to the Super Bowl, puts his team in a place to win it, and falls an INCH short of winning the Championship.

All other things being equal...

Who had the better year??

Let's see behind 1 door is 4 SB appearances and 4 Sb wins, behin is 4 SB wins and 6 or more appearances as a fan which do you sign up for....


One QB has 17 career playoff wins another QB is on target for 20+ who do you take,,,


I like it when my team plays the final game of the season, I guess others would not...

 

[JJDChE]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

All other things being equal...

QB #1 advances to the Divisional Round...and gets beaten.

QB #2 WINS the Divisional Round AND wins the Conference Championship, then advances to the Super Bowl, puts his team in a place to win it, and falls an INCH short of winning the Championship.

All other things being equal...

Who had the better year??

QBs don't win games on their own and all competition isn't the same, so your hypothetical doesn't have a straight answer.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

All other things being equal...

QB #1 advances to the Divisional Round...and gets beaten.

QB #2 WINS the Divisional Round AND wins the Conference Championship, then advances to the Super Bowl, puts his team in a place to win it, and falls an INCH short of winning the Championship.

All other things being equal...

Who had the better year??

QBs don't win games on their own and all competition isn't the same, so your hypothetical doesn't have a straight answer.

Exactly which element of "All other things being equal" confused you?

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

All you need is one more to make it a conversation. Montana is enough. I still think Marino and Manning stay in the conversation if Brady wins another one. Obviously the argument gets more compelling for Brady with 4 rings, but I don't think it's a slam dunk until he gets 5.

I don't agree with these names. The SB era isn't everything either. IMO, the top group of QB's is:

Montana
Graham
Starr
Brady
Staubach
Baugh

The next group (have at least one major flaw):

Marino
Young
Unitas
Manning
Favre
Elway

Criteria:

Comparisons made against players in their time

Very accurate passer (huge arm not needed), Unitas dinged

Wins key games

Knows when to throw ball away or take sack (IE avoids river boat gambler or QB ego boy choices) - huge problems for Elway, and Favre

Maintains leadership even during bad games, and serious loses (problem for Manning in Foxboro 1/04 and 1/05 for instance); Young has issues here too.

Mobile enough to extend plays, but doesn't make fetish of running (Young and Elway overdid it at times)

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Let's see behind 1 door is 4 SB appearances and 4 Sb wins, behin is 4 SB wins and 6 or more appearances as a fan which do you sign up for....

Try this for size in Conference Championship + SB games, Tom Brady and Joe Montana are both 8-3.

Brady's worst QBR was 79.5 in those 11 games. Montana a 39.2. Ugh. So far Brady has been a Patriot for his career. When Steve Young was ready - Montana was dealt away w/ a 3rd rounder, and S Whitmore for a 1st. Hmm.

So you want us to believe a QB who is 4-3 in his Conference Championship games is better than one who is 6-1? Montana couldn't even get to two SB's, how do you know he'd have won if he did? Because the AFC sucked during most of his career? Maybe.

Montana 16-7 in the playoffs, Brady 16-6.
Game winning drives Brady 6 > Montana 5

Career AV:

Brady 129 - 24th
Montana 123 - 32nd

Brady poised to move into the top 5 with another 2 years of good health.

Also Brady is in a capped league and Montana wasn't.

Now don't get me wrong. Montana is great and on balance may still have the lead, but, that's about to be done away with. He'll always be one of the greats. I just think people put waaaay too much emphasis on the SB. If BB hadn't been lazy and changed the OL calls, that's one more SB, and if Brady hadn't been hurt, or Gronkowsi hadn't been hurt, or Welker caught the ball that's your six SB wins. None of that was on Brady, not like he spit it up out there like Montana's last Conf Championship - 9 for 23 for 125 yards and an Int.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

I'm really looking forward to this book.

By the way, we're interviewing this guy tomorrow on 'Patriots Fourth and Two', the podcast set up by the bloggers on patsfans.com to talk football so check it out at 7pm EST tomorrow!

Patriots Fourth And Two Online Radio by PatriotsFourthAndTwo | Blog Talk Radio

 

[JJDChE]

Re: Sean Glennons new book : Tom Brady vs. the NFL: The Case for Football’s Greatest

Exactly which element of "All other things being equal" confused you?

In this conversation (i.e. Brady v. Montana), all other things most certainly are not equal.