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Schefter: Ochocinco will stay with Patriots

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Allow me to rephrase, my preference is Stallworth to Ochocinco in this moment in time. In retrospect, I would have not traded draft picks for Ochocinco and at least retained wide receiver Brandon Tate as the New England Patriots primary kick returner.

If the opportunity presented itself, I would rather have Jabar Gaffney than either Stallworth or Ochocinco.

Tate just wore out his welcome.
85 was a very productive WR in Cincy. It is unrealistic hindsight to say it could have been predicted that he would struggle picking up the reads in our system.
In retrospect a bad trade, but when it was made, its really hard to criticize it honestly.
However, the failure of 85 also led to the emergence of Gronk as a force in the passing game. Many people forget he was not a primary weapon as a rookie, and may not have emerged if 85 was a 60+ catch guy. Unintended results sometimes help make a bad decision not hurt you so bad.
 
Stallworth caught more passes because there was no one else on his team to throw to.
If the Patriots didn't have Welker or Branch, 85 would have caught more passes. That doesn't mean he would have been a better player
He doesnt even know where to line up at times.

Who knows if he reads the defense right. Indications are that he does not.

I may have made a difference in the Super Bowl, but thats not likely either.

Someone needed to step up with Gronk hobbled. Follow the money.
 
I have made a grand total of zero excuses for 85.
Ever.

Cmon now.

(a) We all (or most of us) clearly understand that the Patriot passing game revolves around routes being dictated by reading the coverage, and I do not understand how anyone would be surprised that a 10+ year very successful veteran who never had to do it at any point in his career may struggle doing so.

1. You have no way of knowing if Johnson has been asked to run that type of route.

2. You make it sound like the Pats WR concept came from Mars. These guys all talk. TO was on the Bengals. Was he never asked to read and react after being on 5 different teams too?

3. If the Bengals told Johnson just go out and get open, he still has to read the defense and go to the open area.

(b) There is no question, IMO, that the success 85 had in Cincy included being in a system that revolved around designing, calling, and executing plays to use his strengths to get him open. When he becomes a ''normal WR' the equation changes.

1. How is Johnson not a normal WR? Because he was the #3 WR? There should have been more opportunities for him since he was not drawing the defenses best DBs. You cant have it both ways.

2. The Pats are only asking him to do 3 things on the field - 1 run the correct route, 2 get open, 3 catch the ball. Thats all. Do that and Brady will get you the ball. He wants to win and his favorite target is the open WR.

(c) Is it possible that he learns a part of the game that came hard to him in his first year? Sure. Is there any reason to believe he can be as productive here as he was in Cincy? Not really, unless we redesign our offense to highlight him, and set up route groupings that are designed to free him up.
1. So what youre saying is that Johnson has the ability to be a 1000 yard WR if only the Pats wouldtake advantage of his strengths.40 receptions, 500 - 600 yards and 4 - 5 TDs would have been a promising first season for him.

(d)We simply have too many better weapons than 85 to use them as decoy or complementary pieces for 85.


Oh, too bad for Brandon Lloyd huh?
 
He doesnt even know where to line up at times.

Who knows if he reads the defense right. Indications are that he does not.
You are way overexaggerating the lining up thing, again though, you are biased.
Clearly he struggles to read the defense right.
The point of this post, was that comparing Stallworths 22 catches to 85s 15 is apples to oranges.



Someone needed to step up with Gronk hobbled. Follow the money.

Kind of hard to put the blame on the guy who caught 1 pass a game all year.
 
Cmon now.
ZERO Excuses. Ever.

(a) We all (or most of us) clearly understand that the Patriot passing game revolves around routes being dictated by reading the coverage, and I do not understand how anyone would be surprised that a 10+ year very successful veteran who never had to do it at any point in his career may struggle doing so.
Describing why he failed is not making excuses. This comment is about expectations anyway.

1. You have no way of knowing if Johnson has been asked to run that type of route.
Of course I do, I watched him play.

2. You make it sound like the Pats WR concept came from Mars. These guys all talk. TO was on the Bengals. Was he never asked to read and react after being on 5 different teams too?
Again, sorry, not an excuse. It is blatantly obvious that he failed because he struggled with the concepts of the Patriots offense. You can pick any other reason you want, and that would be as much an excuse as mine.
See, I am not EXCUSING him, I am EXPLAINING WHY HE FAILED. IUnderstanding why doesnt dismiss him from accountability.
I guess to you, the only way to not make an excuse for him is to call him Ochostinko and repeat over and over again he sucks?

3. If the Bengals told Johnson just go out and get open, he still has to read the defense and go to the open area.[/'quote]
Thats the point, no he doesnt. They don't tell him to get open.
See let me explain this to you. Most teams call a pass play that has a combination of routes design to exploit the defense. The complementary routes are designed to draw coverage away from the primary route. The Patriots are unique in that their pass plays have OPTIONS, meaning depending upon the coverage you have a different route. 85 has NEVER done that. That doesnt excuse him sucking at it, but it is the reason he struggled. Its really kind of simple.
By the way, no team tells recievers to just go get open.

(b) There is no question, IMO, that the success 85 had in Cincy included being in a system that revolved around designing, calling, and executing plays to use his strengths to get him open. When he becomes a ''normal WR' the equation changes.

1. How is Johnson not a normal WR? Because he was the #3 WR? There should have been more opportunities for him since he was not drawing the defenses best DBs. You cant have it both ways.
Normal, meaning not the focus of the offense. I don't want it both ways. He is not real good at running a variety of routes. The things that worked for him in Cincy are not the things he is doing here. Again, not an excuse in any way.


2. The Pats are only asking him to do 3 things on the field - 1 run the correct route, 2 get open, 3 catch the ball. Thats all. Do that and Brady will get you the ball. He wants to win and his favorite target is the open WR.
And he is not doing that. How do you figure that me explaining why he is not doing that is making an excuse?

(c) Is it possible that he learns a part of the game that came hard to him in his first year? Sure. Is there any reason to believe he can be as productive here as he was in Cincy? Not really, unless we redesign our offense to highlight him, and set up route groupings that are designed to free him up.
1. So what youre saying is that Johnson has the ability to be a 1000 yard WR if only the Pats wouldtake advantage of his strengths.40 receptions, 500 - 600 yards and 4 - 5 TDs would have been a promising first season for him.
NO. What I am saying is if you design the offense around him and make him your primary weapon he can produce. He has shown that. Why you feel that is a complement is beyond me.
In no way did I say this is what they should have done. I am simply saying that is what he needs to succeed, in other words that is his limitation.
There are tons of WRs who could produce under those circumstances.
If you could see through your bias, you would see that my comment is closer to he only produced those #s in Cincy because of the way they used him, than saying the Patriots misused him.



(d)We simply have too many better weapons than 85 to use them as decoy or complementary pieces for 85.


Oh, too bad for Brandon Lloyd huh?
Yeah, this makes on sense. We have other receivers that are better than 85 so we didn't make him the focus of the offense and that is bad for Brandon Lloyd.
And somehow that was making an excuse for 85?
Dude, you need to get a grip. My posts about 85 are not even close to positive. Since you have this dislike bias you seem to think anything ohter than OCHOSTINKO SUCKS is some sort of ringing endorsement.

My posts say he failed. Just because I don't call him names while saying that doesn't all of a sudden make them positive.
 
The FO needs to throw out OchoStinkBomb as soon as it is most financially advantageous.
If that means today, or the day before the draft, or June 1st, or the day before TC,
or the day before workout/roster bonuses are due, then so be it.

All that matters is that he not be on the opening day 53, because Stinko sux real, real bad.
And it was a mistake, already known by many of us, to have brought him here at any price,
never mind the price - in both salary & draft picks - it actually cost.
 
Adam Schefter ? @AdamSchefter
Patriots WR Chad Ochocinco restructured his contract for coming season, lowering base salary from $3 million to $1 million. Back to NE.

He's not going anywhere.
 
He's not going anywhere.

I'm not quite sure that gives him any job security, because it looks like a straight pay cut. And a well deserved one at that.
 
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I'd like to say I think he'll make the 53, but man is the WR competition a lot stiffer then last year.
 
Tate just wore out his welcome.
85 was a very productive WR in Cincy. It is unrealistic hindsight to say it could have been predicted that he would struggle picking up the reads in our system.
In retrospect a bad trade, but when it was made, its really hard to criticize it honestly.
However, the failure of 85 also led to the emergence of Gronk as a force in the passing game. Many people forget he was not a primary weapon as a rookie, and may not have emerged if 85 was a 60+ catch guy. Unintended results sometimes help make a bad decision not hurt you so bad.

Very true analysis.
I do not know if I buy the playbook B.S. Chemistry yes.#85 WAS open many times the last half of the year. He was also ignored when he was open in the SB. He made a very difficult catch that even Brady acknowledged. TB still tried to stuff it to some covered guys. That had nothing to do with the playbook. The Gronk INT was not a real route.

His bad start let the TE tandem take off.

DW Toys
 
I'm not quite sure that gives him any job security, because it looks like a straight pay cut. And a well deserved one at that.
I thought it was bad practice or something to cut a player that just agreed to a restructure.
 
I thought it was bad practice or something to cut a player that just agreed to a restructure.

Not that I am aware of. He took a paycut instead of being cut. That doesnt mean he will beat out the competition for a job.
 
It also saves us even more money in the event he is cut as we'll be on the hook for less.
 
It also saves us even more money in the event he is cut as we'll be on the hook for less.
No its salary so the salary is 0 before or after tis move if he is cut.
 
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All signs point to The Patriots playing alot of empty backfield next year with 3 WRs and 2 TEs, Hernandez can show as a TE or WR and then shift into RB, making him a runner against a nickle or dime defense.

The Patriots can go with a heavy look with 3 TEs, 1 RB and a WR, or they can go for a Light look with 5 wide with the possibility to shift, with the skill depth on this team, the possibilities are endless and they can give you looks that no other team can because of the versatility of Hernandez.

I really like it, Josh Mcdaniels is a great offensive coach and im pretty excited to see what he can do to improve our offense from last year.
 
All signs point to The Patriots playing alot of empty backfield next year with 3 WRs and 2 TEs, Hernandez can show as a TE or WR and then shift into RB, making him a runner against a nickle or dime defense.

The Patriots can go with a heavy look with 3 TEs, 1 RB and a WR, or they can go for a Light look with 5 wide with the possibility to shift, with the skill depth on this team, the possibilities are endless and they can give you looks that no other team can because of the versatility of Hernandez.

I really like it, Josh Mcdaniels is a great offensive coach and im pretty excited to see what he can do to improve our offense from last year.

Came here to pretty much post this exact thing. Especially now that BJGE is gone, I think we will definitely see more of the empty set with the option to shift Hernandez into the backfield.

One thing is for certain: there will be an outstanding competition in training camp for WR3.
 
Seems like a no brainer to me. But I'm sure this will be met with much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the "Ochostinko" crowd.

That would be guys like me. Older WRs get to a point where they simply can't seperate from defenders. They also don't like working the middle of the field... where it appears Brady does most his dissecting of opponents' defenses. I think it's very important to have a guy with speed on the outside. Branch and Chad aren't guys on the upside of their careers. Good luck to them both. I think it's time for another weapon. I guess we'll see what happens.
 
I dont get why people are so adament about throwing Ocho out of town.

now, no doubt he was HORRIBLE last year....he was clueless on the field. But there must be SOME reason that belichick held onto him and is bringing him into camp this year.

BB has no problem admitting a mistake and cutting anyone...he cut Merriweather,sanders when we had no suitable backups. He cut Haynesworh, he traded Moss and left us with no outisde receiver.

I think theres a hope that he can be more productive with a full offseason. and if it doesnt work out you cut him...if it works out you have a really nice #3 WR
 
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