Rumor: Denver Broncos may pursue Julian Edelman

[SB39]

Hahahaha seriously all the Patriots do is pick out the random white dude in the 8th row and put him in the slot and we have success.

(Some of) My seats are in the 8th row!!! And I'm white!!! YEAH BABY!!!!!

 

[Deus Irae]

You are free to believe that DEN would still have lost if Seattle had $20M less of defense.

After all DEN would have lost to anyone. They are DEN; they always lose.

What an odd post. We don't know what Seattle would have looked like with $20 million less in defense, but we don't have to go there. Had they been missing their pass rush to even out the Broncos missing their top 2 centers and their excellent LT, for example, Manning would have had more time to throw. This would be true whether guys like Avril played poorly or not at all.

Are you suggesting such things don't make a difference? The splits Manning had that game certainly would seem to disagree with you.

Maybe you think that bad first snap was because of Seattle's extra $20 million in spending on defense, and not because of noise/commnication issues?

Maybe you think Harvin's return was somehow because of $20 million spent on Seattle's defense?

Maybe you think QBs who are playing well routinely close their eyes and chuck horribly wounded ducks under pressure, rather than moving to avoid it or taking a sack?

 

[Danger Zone]

What an odd post. We don't know what Seattle would have looked like with $20 million less in defense, but we don't have to go there. Had they been missing their pass rush to even out the Broncos missing their top 2 centers and their excellent LT, for example, Manning would have had more time to throw. This would be true whether guys like Avril played poorly or not at all.

Are you suggesting such things don't make a difference? The splits Manning had that game certainly would seem to disagree with you.

Maybe you think that bad first snap was because of Seattle's extra $20 million in spending on defense, and not because of noise/commnication issues?

Maybe you think Harvin's return was somehow because of $20 million spent on Seattle's defense?

Maybe you think QBs who are playing well routinely close their eyes and chuck horribly wounded ducks under pressure, rather than moving to avoid it or taking a sack?

What a condescending post.

As always, good football opinions overshadowed by your incessant need to be so patrionizing about how you present it.

 

[ripatsfan91]

I think everyone is severely underrating JE's impact on this offense. He is the only receiver to show any kind of chemistry with Brady and was the only reason we had a passing attack after the loss of Gronk. We NEED to resign him

 

[supafly]

I think everyone is severely underrating JE's impact on this offense. He is the only receiver to show any kind of chemistry with Brady and was the only reason we had a passing attack after the loss of Gronk. We NEED to resign him

I don't think the majority are meaning to underrate Edelman's skills, only stating that they should be taken into context as it pertains to the 2013 season. In other words, the 2013 offense is not the normal offense that we'll see every year. It was pretty obvious that Edelman benefited from some odd circumstances due to rookies, arrests, and injuries.

The fact that Edelman was the only one who had any chemistry with Brady last season shouldn't have any bearing on how we move forward in the future. One would assume that we'll probably have better luck in the injury department, that we'll have 1st year rookies step into 2nd year roles, that we'll add another TE or WR via the draft, and that we'll also target one/two more capable receivers through free agency and camp cuts.

Obviously, most want to retain Edelman. It's simply about whether or not he'll want to stay here and leave some money on the table that he'd have gotten in a worse environment like CLE/MIN/JAX, etc. Of course, if the title of the thread is indeed true and DEN is planning on making a play for him, then the decision may be much easier for Julian Edelman, as he'd instantly go to the AFC's representative in last year's Super Bowl and be guaranteed to catch passes from Peyton Manning.

 

[Wheelman]

I think everyone is severely underrating JE's impact on this offense. He is the only receiver to show any kind of chemistry with Brady and was the only reason we had a passing attack after the loss of Gronk. We NEED to resign him

If they have so much chemistry why do they miss on the deep ball so much? Quite a few times over the past two seasons Edelman was open deep but they couldn't connect.

I'm not trying to argue whether we should resign Edelman. I just don't get it! Underthrown and overthrown balls towards Edelman deep. Is that normal? Or is it really a lack of chemistry with the deep ball?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Obviously, most want to retain Edelman. It's simply about whether or not he'll want to stay here and leave some money on the table that he'd have gotten in a worse environment like CLE/MIN/JAX, etc. Of course, if the title of the thread is indeed true and DEN is planning on making a play for him, then the decision may be much easier for Julian Edelman, as he'd instantly go to the AFC's representative in last year's Super Bowl and be guaranteed to catch passes from Peyton Manning and have to worry about being hung out to dry by his quarterback.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

(Some of) My seats are in the 8th row!!! And I'm white!!! YEAH BABY!!!!!

Are you under 6'0 and are you incapable of running the 40 in <4.5 seconds?

If so, then you're hired.

 

[PP2]

I think everyone is severely underrating JE's impact on this offense. He is the only receiver to show any kind of chemistry with Brady and was the only reason we had a passing attack after the loss of Gronk. We NEED to resign him

I'm in agreement with this. Also, his value as far as PR can't be underestimated.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I think everyone is severely underrating JE's impact on this offense. He is the only receiver to show any kind of chemistry with Brady and was the only reason we had a passing attack after the loss of Gronk. We NEED to resign him

And people are overestimating what he can do from now on. His first real non injury year and will it continue?

He had a great year but i see people swaying twords the idea that this is how good he will be every year. Another year with no injuries..then i may believe those people.

We do need to resigning him becasue brady needs some stability here headed into his final few years

 

[ripatsfan91]

If they have so much chemistry why do they miss on the deep ball so much? Quite a few times over the past two seasons Edelman was open deep but they couldn't connect.

I'm not trying to argue whether we should resign Edelman. I just don't get it! Underthrown and overthrown balls towards Edelman deep. Is that normal? Or is it really a lack of chemistry with the deep ball?

You are making your case on that one overthrown ball in AFC championship game. Brady said himself, he makes that throw 9 out of 10 times. But at the same time, it doesn't help that Edelman isn't much of a deep threat to begin with. Shorter than 6 foot and fast, but not a burner. Not a whole lot of room for error.

 

[supafly]

You are making your case on that one overthrown ball in AFC championship game. Brady said himself, he makes that throw 9 out of 10 times.

First of all, it's not just about any one game. Second of all, Brady can say whatever he wants about "making that throw 9/10 times," but we all know he's full of crap. Brady hasn't been able to throw the deep ball effectively throughout his whole career, and it's only gotten worse. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily knocking him, just telling it like it is. Obviously, there's no one I'd rather have as my QB, but his deep ball skills don't make that throw anything close to 9/10 times. He's lucky if he makes it 5/10 times, and I think we'd all agree on that.

Look at the deeper passing charts in the database. Out of 115 balls that were thrown either deep left, deep center, or deep right (which was the worst of the bunch at a 5/27 completion rate), only 42/115 were completed. That means that out of every 10 balls that were thrown "deep," which is only past 20 yards for this exercise, only 3.8/10 were actually completed. Believe it or not, this is actually much better than the 2012 numbers if I recall correctly. It's likely one of the reasons why we asked Llyod to take a pay cut, as there was absolutely no success whatsoever in the deeper 20+ yd range.

We can think of plenty of examples where Edelman didn't come down with anything over 20 yards. He's nothing of an even acceptable deep ball receiver. Just think of the N.Orleans game where his poor route running on the deep ball probably should've cost us the game when Brady threw the INT looking for him with about 2 min left. It's not just about one game at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

First of all, it's not just about any one game. Second of all, Brady can say whatever he wants about "making that throw 9/10 times," but we all know he's full of crap. Brady hasn't been able to throw the deep ball effectively throughout his whole career, and it's only gotten worse...

That is simply not correct.

 

[supafly]

That is simply not correct.

You don't think that Brady has struggles throwing a deeper ball? I don't remember him ever really excelling at throwing a deep ball, aside from maybe the 2007 season with Moss grabbing anything thrown to him in traffic.

In my opinion, Brady has never excelled at throwing the deep ball, and has only gotten worse. I don't see him completing that ball 9/10 times these days...at all.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

You don't think that Brady has struggles throwing a deeper ball? I don't remember him ever really excelling at throwing a deep ball, aside from maybe the 2007 season with Moss grabbing anything thrown to him in traffic.

In my opinion, Brady has never excelled at throwing the deep ball, and has only gotten worse. I don't see him completing that ball 9/10 times these days...at all.

Oh he has gotten worse at the deep ball as time has gone on. Anyone watching the games can see that besides the 2007 season and i think in 2005 he was really good.

9/10? Not even close

 

[supafly]

If you took issue with my comment that he's "never" been a very good deep ball passer, fine. I admit that was over-generalizing, but aside from having Moss back there in '07 and (at times) '09, which tells me that it was basically Moss, I haven't seen much from Tom Brady and the deep ball for quite some time. One could make a very good argument that his deep ball hasn't been too hot throughout the good majority of his career.

No way Brady hits that ball to Edelman 9/10 times anymore, so that was my main point. I think Brady is full of crap with that statement. You may feel differently. Perhaps it's just having bad/not capable enough receivers.

 

[supafly]

"The deep ball has been increasingly missing with Brady as he's gotten older. Since 2011, he's overthrown 12 of 19 attempts of 30 yards or more, which is the highest percentage (63.2) in the league, according to ESPN Stats & Information."

Tom Brady's missing deep ball - AFC East Blog - ESPN

According to these numbers in the past 3 seasons, Brady would have been lucky to have completed that pass to Edelman about 3/10 times, let alone "9/10."

 

[Deus Irae]

You don't think that Brady has struggles throwing a deeper ball? I don't remember him ever really excelling at throwing a deep ball, aside from maybe the 2007 season with Moss grabbing anything thrown to him in traffic.

In my opinion, Brady has never excelled at throwing the deep ball, and has only gotten worse. I don't see him completing that ball 9/10 times these days...at all.

Somewhere in the past, I demonstrated that this was false. As a matter of fact, if memory serves, he was the most accurate (or close to it) of all the big name QBs at the time I broke it down. It may have been during the Moss era, for all I remember (I can't remember when it became much more difficult to find completions by distance), but it was there. The notion that he's never been good at it is simply not true.

 

[supafly]

Somewhere in the past, I demonstrated that this was false. As a matter of fact, if memory serves, he was the most accurate of all the big name QBs at the time I broke it down.

OK, fair enough. Your reputation is good enough with me.

He may have been a better deep ball passer in the past, but he's really been lacking in that area in the past several seasons.

Personally, I didn't think that he was ever really known as being a "good" deep ball passer around the league at any given time with the exception of Moss, but if you've done the research (aside from the obvious 2007), then I believe you.

Those days have certainly passed him by though, and no matter what anyone says, I don't believe he hits that pass to Edelman "9/10 times," and that was really my main point. I must admit that I am glad that Tom still believes that, however. I hope that he continues to have that confidence.

 

[supafly]

I would be interested to see the numbers without Moss though, in case anyone knows where to find them, or has delved into this study previously.

Either way you look at it, there's no doubt that it's suffered tremendously for quite some time now. How much the lousier group of receivers have to do with that is anyone's guess, but one would certainly assume that it's a chunk of the problem.