Roster Projections, after preseason Game 3 at Detroit

[RobertWeathers]

Ebner had 18 total snaps on the defense in 2016.

Unless Travis has shown way more to the coaches than we've seen in pre-season games, I'd agree that it's someone not currently on the roster.

I know it's not a lot. I think part of it is because Chung is in so many packages the dude never comes off the field.

I do think Nate can play more and provide value vs the run. Vs the pass not sure.

Because I'm a nice guy, i'll go with what BB decides here.

 

[maineman209]

Now I get it, Thank You. So i was wrong but the result IMO will be the same. They will place both (Garcia and Rivers) on the IR list. They will carry only 8 OL IMO, and Fleming will be our emergency backup. Croston can play as a G so he will win tha battle against Waddle. The others are well known. Do you know if Garcia can practice if he's on IR?

Garcia won't be able to practice with the team. However, he can rehab and workout at the Pats facility, study tape and the playbook, etc. AFAIK, after 8 weeks, he can practice with the team for three weeks as a "54th" player, just as if he was coming off PUP.

 

[patsfan13]

Hollister and Moore really haven't shown that much. Carr could very well sneak through too.

BB has been hiding them since 1st preseason game.

They won't 'sneak' through waivers. Other teams have been scouting our joint practices, looking for cuts from a loaded roster.

 

[mgteich]

Roberts can fill freenys st role

I believe that this is first time that anyone has said that Roberts is any good at St's.

 

[mgteich]

Hmmm

I guess I don't this as that hard, since I agree (other than having Freeny fighting with Roberts for the last LB spot.

I think this one's more difficult than previous years.

QB (3): 12 Brady, 10 Garoppolo, 7 Brissett
RB (6): 33 Lewis, 28 White, 35 Gillislee, 34 Burkhead, 46 Develin, 38 Bolden*
WR (5): 14 Cooks, 15 Hogan, 80 Amendola, 19 Mitchell, 18 Slater*
TE (3): 87 Gronkowski, 83 Allen, 88 O'Shaughnessy
T (4): 77 Solder, 61 Cannon, 71 Fleming, 63 Garcia
G/C (4): 62 Thuney, 60 Andrews, 69 Mason, 75 Karras
DL (5): 97 Branch, 90 Brown, 93 Guy, 99 Valentine, 70 Butler
EDGE (5): 98 Flowers, 58 McClellin, 91 Wise, 48 Langi, 95 Rivers
LB (4): 54 Hightower, 45 Harris, 52 Roberts, 53 Van Noy
CB (5): 21 Butler, 24 Gilmore, 25 Rowe, 41 Jones, 31 Jones
S (6): 32 McCourty, 23 Chung, 30 Harmon, 37 Richards, 43 Ebner*, 36 King*
ST (3): 3 Gostkowski, 6 Allen, 49 Cardona

* = pretty much just special teams

Some thoughts:

• Possible that Brissett could be cut and sent to the PS (I think there is a reasonable chance he clears waivers).
• Lot of RBs already, and I think it's possible Foster is added on as well
• Had Bolden off my roster for the first time in years yesterday, then I got the news about Edelman.
• WR depth not looking too hot, but luckily, there will be anywhere from 3-5 viable pass catching RBs on the roster.
• I hope Hogan can catch more passes this year, even though he's technically not being promoted (he was #2 last year, now he's #2 again).
• I have no idea why people are putting Jacob Hollister on the roster. Lengel showed more last year than Hollister has this offseason. O'Shaughnessy is better anyway.
• Wouldn't be terribly surprised if they went with 2 TE but IMO that would be stupid given Gronk's history.
• If they keep 9 OL, I'm expecting the last one either to be Waddle or Croston.
• It seems like 3 man defensive lines (or the 2011 version of the 4-3 in which the LE was a slimmer DT) are the only way to get the best players on the field this year. It has to be Brown-Branch-Guy, right?
• EDGE position is in worse shape than I've seen a Pats position in a few years. 2013 WR might be the last time, but I'm reminded of the 2011 safeties after getting rid of Sanders and Meriweather with no viable replacements.
• I am aware that Rivers is likely headed to IR. When that happens, I'll begrudgingly give his spot to Grissom.
• Richards wouldn't be on this team if Ebner could play safety. Alas, they pretty much use 3 safeties as starters, so you can't cut the fourth.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your assessment. We need a backup SS, and Richards is the best that we have. Sure, he might be upgraded with an acquisition.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that there's not much hope for Richards.

The problem I'm having is who backs up McCourty/Chung/Harmon? I'm definitely not counting on Ebner or King to fill in. For my projection, I went with Travis, but that's just as a placeholder. I really don't see him as being superior to Richards at this point.

I don't think that the Pats have a legit 4th safety currently on the roster - a guy who wouldn't be a disastrous downgrade if forced into service for an extended period due to injury. I think they probably have to trade for a guy or pick one up during cutdowns if they want an upgrade over the guys we have now, but I have no idea who that might be - or even if such a guy would be available.

 

[Ring 6]

I believe that this is first time that anyone has said that Roberts is any good at St's.

Why wouldn't he be?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

DURING cutdowns, after the pre-season officially ends on Sept. 1st, it's apparently still possible to move a non-vested player like Rivers to IR without exposing them to waivers.

Seems to be lots of confusion on this issue - I've seen claims both ways.

Here's all I can find on the NFL site - this perhaps implies you can't do as you suggest:

Simultaneously with the cut-down to 53, clubs that have players in the categories of Active/Physically Unable to Perform or Active/Non-Football Injury or Illness must select one of the following options: place player on Reserve/Physically Unable to Perform or Reserve/Non-Football Injury or Illness, whichever is applicable; request waivers; terminate contract; trade contract; or continue to count the player on the Active List.​

 

[jmt57]

Regarding Elandon Roberts and special teams:

Elandon Roberts 2016 Fantasy Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

After getting six ST snaps at Cleveland, Roberts had just one ST snap over the next eight games. For the season Roberts played just 19 ST snaps. That ranked 40th on the team, in on only 4% of all ST plays in 2016.

I find it highly unusual that a defensive rookie, especially one that is not a starter, sees virtually no time on special teams. I don't know the explanation for that, but would have to think it was because he was not carrying out his assignments very well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Regarding Elandon Roberts and special teams:

Elandon Roberts 2016 Fantasy Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

After getting six ST snaps at Cleveland, Roberts had just one ST snap over the next eight games. For the season Roberts played just 19 ST snaps. That ranked 40th on the team, in on only 4% of all ST plays in 2016.

I find it highly unusual that a defensive rookie, especially one that is not a starter, sees virtually no time on special teams. I don't know the explanation for that, but would have to think it was because he was not carrying out his assignments very well.

Yep. My take is some players are better at STs than others.

They also might have less critical players that go to STs. Not sure.

As a reserve it's strange.

That might hurt him.

 

[Bruins29]

Garcia won't be able to practice with the team. However, he can rehab and workout at the Pats facility, study tape and the playbook, etc. AFAIK, after 8 weeks, he can practice with the team for three weeks as a "54th" player, just as if he was coming off PUP.

Players on IR can practice after week 6 and return week 8

 

[Deus Irae]

Numerical designations like this are almost meaningless for Pats WRs.

I'm not sure where you're getting that notion, and it's certainly possible that I'm missing your angle, but the BB/Brady history clearly runs counter to your claim. Now, if you're saying that the heavy use of the Slot makes the question of catches versus yardage/attention more of a debate point, I can agree with that.

 

[jmt57]

Seems to be lots of confusion on this issue - I've seen claims both ways.

Here's all I can find on the NFL site - this perhaps implies you can't do as you suggest:

Simultaneously with the cut-down to 53, clubs that have players in the categories of Active/Physically Unable to Perform or Active/Non-Football Injury or Illness must select one of the following options: place player on Reserve/Physically Unable to Perform or Reserve/Non-Football Injury or Illness, whichever is applicable; request waivers; terminate contract; trade contract; or continue to count the player on the Active List.​

Note that the above is only in reference to players on PUP and NFI.


I found a couple articles that seem to imply that non-vested players can be placed on IR without having to be first placed on the 53-man roster, and that it can all be done during those final roster cuts.


Waiver Rules | Baltimore Ravens News | Russell Street Report

3. Injured players with 4+ seasons of service time can be immediately placed on Injured Reserve (IR).

4. Up until the final cutdown date, injured players with less than four years of service cannot go onto IR without first passing through waivers. Those players are released with the “waived/injured” designation. Known as “injury waivers,” this process exposes the player to waivers, but warns other teams that the player is injured. If the player clears injury waivers, the team can then either place the player on IR or agree to an injury settlement (paying the player for the weeks that he is expected to be recovering from his injury) and then release the player.

It is important to keep in mind that injury waivers only apply during the offseason, up until the final cutdown date. From that point on, a non-vested veteran can be placed directly on IR, although some teams will still use the “waived-injured” designation, hoping that another team will claim the player, thereby relieving them of the financial responsibility for a player while on IR.​

This was written when the NFL still had a 75-man roster cut, but shows that non-vested players could be placed on IR without having to first be on the 53-man roster.

Explaining the waived/injured process

But the way the rules are written, Seattle had no other choice other than to keep Bowie on the 90-man roster until the first cutdown date, ...

“Prior to the first cutdown date, injured players with less than 4 years of service cannot go onto IR until they pass through waivers. Those players are released with the “waived/injured” designation. Known as “injury waivers”, this process exposes the player to waivers, but warns other teams that the player is injured. If the player clears injury waivers, the team can then either place the player on IR or agree to an injury settlement (paying the player for the weeks that he is expected to be recovering from his injury) and then release the player.”​

If you go to their 2016 transactions and scroll down to last year's final cut date (9/3), you will see that the Ravens placed three non-vested players on IR at the same time as those roster cuts, without having to first place those players on the 53-man roster.

Baltimore Ravens | Transactions

Terminated the contracts of vested veterans G Vladimir Ducasse, RB Justin Forsett and QB Josh Johnson; Waived OLB Brennen Beyer, S Terrence Brooks, ILB Arthur Brown, TE Daniel Brown, WR Jeremy Butler, T Blaine Clausell, RB Stephen Houston, DE Kapron Lewis-Moore, OLB Victor Ochi, ILB Patrick Onwuasor, WR/RS Keenan Reynolds, C Matt Skura and CB Julian Wilson; Waived (injured) CB Carrington Byndom; Placed WR/RS Michael Campanaro, WR Chris Matthews and G/T De'Ondre Wesley on Injured Reserve.​

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Wonder if there is a ripple effect from the Edelman injury - Amendola becomes more important, and so they are less willing to have him do punt returns, and so Cy Jones becomes more valuable.

 

[jmt57]

With his being injured for much of training camp, this is not a surprise.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really wonder about Slater.

I left him off my roster as I think they are gone on ST and need a legit WR who can play ST

 

[maineman209]

Players on IR can practice after week 6 and return week 8

Even better!

 

[Ring 6]

Regarding Elandon Roberts and special teams:

Elandon Roberts 2016 Fantasy Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

After getting six ST snaps at Cleveland, Roberts had just one ST snap over the next eight games. For the season Roberts played just 19 ST snaps. That ranked 40th on the team, in on only 4% of all ST plays in 2016.

I find it highly unusual that a defensive rookie, especially one that is not a starter, sees virtually no time on special teams. I don't know the explanation for that, but would have to think it was because he was not carrying out his assignments very well.

It was brought up a couple of weeks ago that he is playing a lot of st snaps now and seemed to indicate it was expansion if his role now that he is comfortable with the defense.

 

[maineman209]

Seems to be lots of confusion on this issue - I've seen claims both ways.

Here's all I can find on the NFL site - this perhaps implies you can't do as you suggest:

Simultaneously with the cut-down to 53, clubs that have players in the categories of Active/Physically Unable to Perform or Active/Non-Football Injury or Illness must select one of the following options: place player on Reserve/Physically Unable to Perform or Reserve/Non-Football Injury or Illness, whichever is applicable; request waivers; terminate contract; trade contract; or continue to count the player on the Active List.​

This paragraph only discusses PUP and NFI. In the past, during cutdowns, teams have been able to place non-vested players on IR without exposing them to waivers. I don't think that's changed due to the official cutdown period being shortened to two days instead of a week.

EDIT: I see now that jmt57 beat me to it - and with a much more thorough explanation. But, my scroll keys are wonky. No, wait! The dog ate my homework! Yeah, that's it!

 

[jmt57]

Cross another DE off your program.

Patriots release TE Matt Lengel and rookie DE Caleb Kidder