Ridley talks the talk...

[woolster22]

Re: Re: Ridley talks the talk...

Yes, but that's completely irrelevant to who's a better RB.



No, it's not. Here, let me show you:

"Ridley is just redundant because the Patriots have Blount. Therefore, Ridley's not a top running back."

My statement has more validity to it than yours does, because we have actually been able to watch both RBs playing with the same team. Furthermore, redundancy is irrelevant to the question of who the better RB is.



The Patriots have been a pass first team every year since Dillon left, with the arguable exception of a decent chunk of 2008. They've also passed more than they've run every year since 2004. The 2013 season has been no exception to this.



Cost is irrelevant to the question of who the better RB is.



Your projection of who'll be a better RB next year is irrelevant to the question of who the better RB is.




Argue all you want. You're wrong on both counts. Furthermore, your initial call was for 10 better RBs in the entire NFL. I quickly pulled a dozen, just from the NFC. I didn't even add in the AFC RBs like the duos in Buffalo and Houston, Charles in K.C., etc...



I'm here giving you a bunch of examples of running backs who are clearly better than Ridley. You're responding by moving the goalposts with all sorts of ridiculous arguments ("For the team", "Better next year", "Cost", "Redundant", "Different"). I don't know what schtick I'm supposedly using here because I've got Ausbacker on ignore and can't read his trolling attempts, but take a look in the mirror, because it's you, not me, who's playing games with this discussion.

Buffalo, miles, for emphasis, period.

I haven't moved anything, simply stated where I think the goal posts should stand in regards to what is in my opinion our best pure runner. Blount has looked outstanding lately, and I'm uninformed as to his contract status, but if alcohol meddled musings stand true he is up next year.

Houston I'll give you if you are willing to forgive injuries. Tate was a binky of mine for that draft class...

Cost, role and philosophy play a huge role in evaluation for any team. To not weigh those factors compared to Ridley is foolish.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Cost, role and philosophy play a huge role in evaluation for any team. To not weigh those factors compared to Ridley is foolish.

But that's not what you asked for. You only mentioned any of those factors after you first asked for 10 backs that were undoubtedly better---which is not at all hard to do. Only then did you start adding in other factors. Of course it's foolish to not weigh those factors---if you're the GM of the team. But that was not the point that Deus was making and not what you asked people to provide.

I need not defend someone who is more than capable of doing so himself; it is of no matter to me who the participants in this argument are, I just don't think you're being consistent here. I'll step out now because I cannot understand why this discussion has carried on this long.

I for one hope that Ridley can continue to get better as a player and that he plays a big role for the team in January. This week, I hope he gets double digit carries and plays well.

 

[Deus Irae]

Buffalo, miles, for emphasis, period.

I haven't moved anything, simply stated where I think the goal posts should stand in regards to what is in my opinion our best pure runner.

Here's the thread trail:

This post makes me sad and, for a split second, affected me physically with a churn of the stomach.

Ridley is one of the better backs in the league and still mostly pure potential.

You're drunk.

Name me ten backs he is undoubtedly worse than.

NOT ONE of those posts mentions anything about being a better fit for the Patriots, or cheaper, younger, or any of the other goalpost-moving excuses you tried tossing out there. You called for 10 backs he is undoubtedly worse than. I gave you 12, just from the NFC. Even if you decided, incorrectly, that 2 of them are questionable, that still leaves the 10 backs, and that's still just from the NFC. Since, even making it a lead pipe lock level of "better", in the AFC, Ridley is clearly a lesser back than Charles, Foster and Spiller, We're already at an even higher number than the initial 12, and that's not counting the likes of Rice (down numbers behind a struggling line), Bernard (rookie season in Cincy, so we can't count that), Ivory (Well, he's a Jet, after all), Moreno (yeah, but he's only done this 2 years out of 5), Brown (too few carries, never done this before) and the like, where we'd be seeing more excuses like the ones I supplied for each of them.


You were wrong. You tried to move the goalposts. Laisse tomber.

 

[ausbacker]

Ah, got it. It would have helped to have it look like this: [ "undoubtedly worse than", Hercules Rockefeller. ] It looked like undoubtedly worse than me. My mistake.

Do you not agree that Gore, Lynch, AP, Forte are all undoubtedly better players? They have had better careers and are having better seasons. I'm not anti-Ridley, very much the opposite---I'd like to see him lead the team in playoff carries as they hoist the Lombardi. But the fact is that most of the guys on Deus' list---I do not agree with every one of them---is as good, or better, at Ridley's main skill (between the tackles running) and better in the passing game, where Ridley is a non-factor and possible liability. It's not being a Ridley hater to point that out.

If the entire crux of the disagreement is the use of the word "undoubtedly," then perhaps the word used should be one that is a bit more objective, and not merely coming down to preference or opinion.

Even still, many of the players on the list are absolutely undoubtedly better players. You can argue physical gifts, but the results on the field show this. For example, Matt Forte may not be the better athlete, but he is absolutely the better football player at this point in time.

I have little to no issue with giving you my list of players who I consider significantly better than Stevan Ridley Hercules Rockefeller. Adrian Peterson, Jamaal Charles, LeSean McCoy, Matt Forte (although his pass protection is horrendous), Marshawn Lynch, Reggie Bush and Frank Gore. From there, I'd say he's comparable, if not better than a whole host of runners who aren't benched for fumbling. So no, I don't agree with Deus.

Remember, it's significantly not comparable or marginally. I'm unsure what to do with Spiller and Foster as Texans RBs excel in that zone blocking scheme and Spiller is injured more than not. I will concede, there is some grey area in my opinion.

Is this not a patriots board? Discussion of patriots players being the highlight? Redundancy of vereen (I'll grant you his injury history against sproles), v Sproles is legitimate. As is team impact. This has been a pass first team until this year.

Ridley is not much of a pass blocker, and doesn't pose much threat receiving. That is not his role. Would forte be better? Most likely. What is the cost? Would Gore be better next year? Arguable. Would AP be better? Yep. Sproles, or Murray in Ridley's place, I'm more than willing to argue against.

As Ausbacker mentioned, your schtick is well known. I might as well be conversing with Mazz/Felger.

Deus is a well known cry baby when he's made to look the fool that he is at times. He's got some stupid theory that by putting people on ignore who disprove many of his contentious thoughts, that makes him look objective. In reality, it proves him to be a coward interested in arguing with people he feels he can take the high road with. He's little more than an educated online bully with an inferiority complex. Don't let him draw you into his game.

If there's a reasonable and rational thought process you've taken, stick to it. Let him argue in circles telling you you're foolish, you've moved the goal posts, it's a poor argument blah blah blah.

 

[patsinthesnow]

So now the Ridley fan club is defending him with "potential." What the heck is "potential" with a RB who has been in the league 3 years?

I don't see how Deus was being a "crybaby." He gave a list of RBs who are better than Ridley, and someone tried to move the goalposts.

Also, I guess some people will just be on different wavelengths regarding Ridley. Morris/Murray are undoubtedly better RBs than Ridley and I would trade him straight up for either of them today.

A 4th???

It's too close to Christmas for me to type my honest reaction that one.

Yes, an average RB in the last year of his contract would command a 4th round pick at best, considering any team can get a better RB in rounds 2-3 in this year's draft. (Sankey, Mason, Williams, etc)

 

[Kdo5]

So now the Ridley fan club is defending him with "potential." What the heck is "potential" with a RB who has been in the league 3 years?

I don't see how Deus was being a "crybaby." He gave a list of RBs who are better than Ridley, and someone tried to move the goalposts.

Also, I guess some people will just be on different wavelengths regarding Ridley. Morris/Murray are undoubtedly better RBs than Ridley and I would trade him straight up for either of them today.




Yes, an average RB in the last year of his contract would command a 4th round pick at best, considering any team can get a better RB in rounds 2-3 in this year's draft. (Sankey, Mason, Williams, etc)

Ridley is entirely capable of posting 1,000 yard seasons with 10+ TDs consistently. If he had the same amount of carries as last year he would be well above 1000 and 10 TDs. Obviously we all understand why he didn't get those carries. And no it is not some simple task to bring in another guy who can produce like that. Belichick has been here for 13 years and how many RBs did we get who can produce those seasons? Dillon and BJGE. Not a lot. Christ I am pretty sure 2012 Ridley had the second best season for a RB in the Belichick era.

I consider myself a Ridley fan because he is talented and very productive. If he gets over his fumbling issues, then why not resign him instead of kicking him out of town for a fourth. If he is so average then we won't need to shell out too much to bring him back.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'd trade Ridley for a 4th in a second if there's an offer.

Keep Blount, Bolden for depth, go for a proven RB on the market and draft a prospect.

Take a look at the free agents for 2014.

» Over the Cap- 2014 NFL Free Agent Running Backs

Thankfully, you are not a GM. But if you were, I wish you'd run the Lions. That's a Millen-esque move. You'd probably trade us Calvin Johnson for a 2nd while thinking you were getting a great deal for Detroit.

So now the Ridley fan club is defending him with "potential." What the heck is "potential" with a RB who has been in the league 3 years?

1200 yards and 12 TDs isn't potential. It's proven. Ridley has had a slower 3rd season because of A> fumbling led to benchings and B> Blount has proven to be very capable of splitting the carries.

Yes, an average RB in the last year of his contract would command a 4th round pick at best, considering any team can get a better RB in rounds 2-3 in this year's draft. (Sankey, Mason, Williams, etc)

It's the OPPOSITE of smart to trade Ridley for a 4th round pick when if all you do is wait and let him sign for another team at an inflated free agent contract, you're going to GET a THIRD round comp pick anyways. PLUS you keep his services for the playoff run.

 

[ausbacker]

So now the Ridley fan club is defending him with "potential." What the heck is "potential" with a RB who has been in the league 3 years?

I don't see how Deus was being a "crybaby." He gave a list of RBs who are better than Ridley, and someone tried to move the goalposts.

Also, I guess some people will just be on different wavelengths regarding Ridley. Morris/Murray are undoubtedly better RBs than Ridley and I would trade him straight up for either of them today.

Yes, an average RB in the last year of his contract would command a 4th round pick at best, considering any team can get a better RB in rounds 2-3 in this year's draft. (Sankey, Mason, Williams, etc)

He gave a list of RBs not a list of RBs significantly better than Ridley. How hard is that to understand for some people? The goal posts were not moved. The goal posts were clearly defined with a qualifying comment of which Deus' opinion (surprise, surprise) did not meet.

I have no particular allegiance to Ridley other than him being a Patriots player. Hell, I was happy enough with what the Law Firm was giving the Patriots.

 

[TonyTucker]

i would take almost anyone from dues's list over riddley right now.

Riddddddddddley can talk the talk, but can he walk the walk?

 

[RayClay]

BB's got two big, athletic backs and they are both out to prove something.

It's times like this it's obvious he's playing chess, not checkers. If we have a primed and motivated running attack going into the playoffs, who cares about the rest?

 

[ausbacker]

BB's got two big, athletic backs and they are both out to prove something.

It's times like this it's obvious he's playing chess, not checkers. If we have a primed and motivated running attack going into the playoffs, who cares about the rest?

Personally, I'm happy as Larry the Patriots have 4 RBs who can contribute and 4 RBs who are slightly different from one another. Outside of an elite RB, the Patriots have a pretty darn good committee going on (assuming health).

 

[Joker]

Happy Larry???...surely you jest...

 

[PatsBoy12]

And that right there is why I think the Patriots will not give up on him.