Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

[PatsWickedPissah]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

It's a fanboy Q rating thing. Just like they want a Revis or wanted say an Asamougha over a McCourty or every overhyped FA who ever hits the market. They don't grasp the team building vs. perceived talent collection concept that extends here to the organization as well as the on field product. They want someone with name recognition who did something once in an environment totally unrelated to the one that exists here. Any guy who won something here once upon a time with a veteran team constructed totally different from the present day iteration or anyone who won on a totally dissimilar team (even if he didn't win more than some games and especially if he ever beat us) is clearly preferable to the clowns Bill plucks these days from mining and engineering schools... They might just as easily be talked into wanting somone else's up and comer position coach if the media would just enlighten them as to who that guy might be... :bricks:

Great argument that taking J McD back would be a failure
As we know, aside from the QB, the veteran offensive talent and deep threat stretch the field style in 2007 was substantly different than 2012's run balance squad

 

[Snake Eyes]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were also younger. The quarterback was also Kyle Boller. They didn't get much of anything done as a team with that offense. Further, that offense was constantly putting the defense on the field. In the Ravens' last down year with Ryan as DC (2007), their defense was ranked 6th (compared to the undefeated Patriots at 4th).

Great post, and great point. You really can't accurately assess Rexy's defenses if you don't take into account the offenses he's working with, a bad offense makes life a lot tougher for a defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Rob Ryan, yes.
RAC, yes.




Rex Ryan, no.

 

[patchick]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

I rather doubt anyone here wouldnt prefer RAC to Rexy, it's just that RAC hasn't seemed to want to come back lately.

True enough, BUT -- I suspect he now knows that his head coaching career ends in KC, which can put a different spin on job opportunities.

He might just retire, but a final stint in familiar company, with a winning team loaded with youth ready to be molded...

 

[Ring 6]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

You say Ryan has never been as successful coaching defenses as Belichick, right? Well, he became the Ravens DC in 2005. Since then, here is how he compares with Bill. I'm going to show how Ryan coached teams and the Patriots have ranked both in points and yards allowed since 2005:

Rex Ryan:

2005 - Points allowed: 10th Yards allowed: 5th

2006 - Points allowed: 1st Yards allowed: 1st

2007 - Points allowed: 22nd Yards allowed: 6th

2008 - Points allowed: 3rd Yards allowed: 2nd

2009 - Points allowed: 1st Yards allowed: 1st

2010 - Points allowed: 6th Yards allowed: 3rd

2011 - Points allowed: 20th Yards allowed: 5th


Bill Belichick:

2005 - Points allowed: 17th Yards allowed: 26th

2006 - Points allowed: 2nd Yards allowed: 6th

2007 - Points allowed: 4th Yards allowed: 4th

2008 - Points allowed: 8th Yards allowed: 10th

2009 - Points allowed: 5th Yards allowed: 11th

2010 - Points allowed: 8th Yards allowed: 25th

2011 - Points allowed: 15th Yards allowed: 31st

I don't see how you can say Rex Ryan's defenses have never been as successful as Belichick's. In fact, he has a better recent trackrecord than Bill does, and those Ravens defenses of '06, '08, and the Jets' of '09 are arguably as good as any defense Belichick has put together as the Patriots head coach. Let's not get carried away here, Rex Ryan is a damn good defensive coach. He's a gameplan guy, just like Bill is, and has tremendous knowledge of the game. I'd be glad to bring him in here, as a guy with a different philosophy, with whom Belichick could bounce ideas back and forth. I'm not saying he's better than Belichick as a coach, or that he knows defenses better than him, I just think it would be interesting to bring in a guy with his own experiences and ideas. Bill has surrounded himself with guys that he himself brought into football, and pretty much all they know is what Belichick taught them. That's not the best way to run this team, Bill, as great as he is, still needs to be challenged, especially considering that recently what he has done hasn't been working.

The defensive numbers for the Patriots in recent seasons aren't as bad as their on field performance may lead us to believe, but having a historically great offense greatly skews those statistics. They seldom have short drives, and they turn the ball over less than pretty much every single team. Aside from that, the defense has a lead to work with from the get-go in almost every game. That's tremendously helpful.

I'm not measuring success in statistics. Ryan has never won anything as a DC or HC. Belichick has 2 rings as a DC, 3 as a HC and has taken his team to 5 SBs in 12 years.

 

[RodThePat]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

I'm not measuring success in statistics. Ryan has never won anything as a DC or HC. Belichick has 2 rings as a DC, 3 as a HC and has taken his team to 5 SBs in 12 years.

If you're measuring success solely on rings, then Ryan has had the same success Belichick has since he became the Ravens DC in 2005: none. We're talking only about being a good defensive coach here. Belichick is a great coach, but he's had Tom Brady for all of those Superbowls as a HC, Rex has had Mark Sanchez quarterbacking his team. And how the hell can you judge a defensive coordinator's career by how many titles he won? Had we beaten the Giants in the Superbowl last season, would Matt Patricia suddenly become a better coach? That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Kid~Brady]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Funny, listening to WEEI and someone just called with the same proposition.

 

[Raymond]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

The whole Rex, RAC debate is moot.

Bills ego would never allow him to let another D guy come back ( RAC) or in (Rex) to improve the team. If there was a big turn around it would spotlight himself as a failure at the task.

He'll never do that.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Funny, listening to WEEI and someone just called with the same proposition.

I think that's more a sign you should be ashamed of your proposal.

 

[Ring 6]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

If you're measuring success solely on rings, then Ryan has had the same success Belichick has since he became the Ravens DC in 2005: none. We're talking only about being a good defensive coach here. Belichick is a great coach, but he's had Tom Brady for all of those Superbowls as a HC, Rex has had Mark Sanchez quarterbacking his team. And how the hell can you judge a defensive coordinator's career by how many titles he won? Had we beaten the Giants in the Superbowl last season, would Matt Patricia suddenly become a better coach? That makes no sense whatsoever.

So you are arguing that my comment is wrong because you want to redefine success?

 

[Finnishfan]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Well his brother Rob was an assistant here under BB, but now that Rex has "come out" to the public by being a loud, brash, buffoon of a HC, it wouldn't work here where BB wants his assistants to keep their mouths shut.

Great reply.

Rex's relationship with the media is troublesome at best. We are one of the most media evasive organisations, because we get enough attention due to our performances even without any extra distractions.

Rex is too polarizing of a charracter to be brought in here. Also, this article gives another good insight to his ego issues; another reason why we should avoid him.

There is more to it than just the X's and the O's.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

The whole Rex, RAC debate is moot.

Bills ego would never allow him to let another D guy come back ( RAC) or in (Rex) to improve the team. If there was a big turn around it would spotlight himself as a failure at the task.

He'll never do that.

I see no credible evidence for your statement

BB brought JoshMcD back
BB parted on very friendly terms with RAC
BB's mantra is "I do what's best for the team"

 

[RodThePat]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

So you are arguing that my comment is wrong because you want to redefine success?

Your argument is wrong because the discussion is about whether Rex Ryan would make a better DC than the one we have now, and if he'd be capable of contributing enough to improve our defense. Whether he won a ring or not as a head coach is irrelevant to this discussion. His ability as a defensive coach is all that matters, and both the stats and the play of his defenses on the field back up the idea that he's very good at that.

Josh McDaniels never won a Superbowl as an offensive coordinator, has that fact taken away from his ability to coach the offense? Have his failures as a Head Coach been an impediment to him doing a good job with the Patriots in 2012? I don't want to redefine success, I'm arguing your definition of success is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Kid~Brady]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

I think that's more a sign you should be ashamed of your proposal.

Lol, I figured someone would say this.

 

[Finnishfan]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

So you are arguing that my comment is wrong because you want to redefine success?

Ah, trying to win the argument with the socratic method. Priceless.

The definition of success according to Merriam-Webster dictionary:
1. obsolete : outcome, result
2. a : degree or measure of succeeding
2. b : favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence
3: one that succeeds

With that 2500 year old method, you are asking him to redefine #1, which is the outcome, the result. The ring. But the word success in the context of that previous post meant #2 (either a. or b.), which is a whole different meaning.

So before you ask him whether he wants to redefine, you need to define what he needs to redefine.

 

[Ring 6]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Your argument is wrong because the discussion is about whether Rex Ryan would make a better DC than the one we have now, and if he'd be capable of contributing enough to improve our defense.

Wait, so YOU decide what I am discussing? Nice.
MY point was that there is nothing in Ryans background that shows he and his system would be better than what he have. That is a fact.

Whether he won a ring or not as a head coach is irrelevant to this discussion.

Well of course it is CENTRAL to the discussion because we are talking about a radical philosophical change, from the most successful organization in the league to a philosophy that and mind that has won nothing.

His ability as a defensive coach is all that matters, and both the stats and the play of his defenses on the field back up the idea that he's very good at that.

They are 24th this year and were 20th last year. How does that back up that he is very good? They stink.

Josh McDaniels never won a Superbowl as an offensive coordinator, has that fact taken away from his ability to coach the offense?

If you are comparing him to someone who has the best winning track record in the NFL sure it does. Are you suggesting it doesn't?

Have his failures as a Head Coach been an impediment to him doing a good job with the Patriots in 2012?

That is an unanswerable question. If we understand what caused him to fail, perhaps yes, perhaps no. If it was because of a mindset that has him run a fake handoff, reverse, pass back in the middle of a game ending drive that almost killed it, or rush his offense to the line to screw up a 1st and goal and the 1, maybe. If it was because he did things like run hurry up with 7 minutes left and a 3 point lead all the way down the field, snapping the ball with 12 seconds on the play clock every play (yes he could have taken well over a minute and a half off) then yes.
Its not the result, its the guy that produced the result that is the point here.
You seem to think that I am saying didn't = can't when I am saying what you did is an indication of your ability.

I don't want to redefine success, I'm arguing your definition of success is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

So you want to argue that we should change the entire philosophy of defense and whether that person and philosophy has ever won nearly as much as the current philosophy has is irrelevant? Really?
Further you want to change the defense and model it after one that is doing worse. What in the world are you using as a definition of success?

 

[RodThePat]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Wait, so YOU decide what I am discussing? Nice.
MY point was that there is nothing in Ryans background that shows he and his system would be better than what he have. That is a fact.



Well of course it is CENTRAL to the discussion because we are talking about a radical philosophical change, from the most successful organization in the league to a philosophy that and mind that has won nothing.


They are 24th this year and were 20th last year. How does that back up that he is very good? They stink.




If you are comparing him to someone who has the best winning track record in the NFL sure it does. Are you suggesting it doesn't?



That is an unanswerable question. If we understand what caused him to fail, perhaps yes, perhaps no. If it was because of a mindset that has him run a fake handoff, reverse, pass back in the middle of a game ending drive that almost killed it, or rush his offense to the line to screw up a 1st and goal and the 1, maybe. If it was because he did things like run hurry up with 7 minutes left and a 3 point lead all the way down the field, snapping the ball with 12 seconds on the play clock every play (yes he could have taken well over a minute and a half off) then yes.
Its not the result, its the guy that produced the result that is the point here.
You seem to think that I am saying didn't = can't when I am saying what you did is an indication of your ability.



So you want to argue that we should change the entire philosophy of defense and whether that person and philosophy has ever won nearly as much as the current philosophy has is irrelevant? Really?
Further you want to change the defense and model it after one that is doing worse. What in the world are you using as a definition of success?

You seem to believe I want Rex Ryan to be the head coach of the New England Patriots. He'd still answer to Belichick, he wouldn't be able to do whatever he wishes. It's been discussed ad nauseum on this thread how it's erroneous to say the Patriots have a better defense than the Jets this season, merely because they are ranked higher in points allowed. But, if you go by that metric, the Jets have had overall a batter defense than we have since Rex got to New York, so I don't see why you'd value 9 games worth of data over about 50.

 

[PatsDeb]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

I'd rather have Rex Ryan than Eric Mangini. At least you can trust Rex to do the best for his team and his boss.

 

[Raymond]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

I see no credible evidence for your statement

BB brought JoshMcD back
BB parted on very friendly terms with RAC
BB's mantra is "I do what's best for the team"

Josh came back because he was available at exactly the same time BOB left, not because the o had slipped into the abyss and Bill needed a helping hand.

I agree on RAC but I'm not comparing him to Mangini here.

Bills mantra is correct, but if he believes he knows best, and he wants no outside help, then he's following his mantra as far as he's concerned.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Rex Ryan...just "imagine" for a second... him as the DC for the Pats

Defensive rank in terms of points allowed over the past 4 years

Jets:
1
6
20
24

Patriots:
5
8
15
15

Nothing there points to Ryan being the answer as DC. What is interesting to look at is the compare the Patriots seasons prior to Ryan's arrival in NY.

Patriots 2006-2008:
2
4
8

What we can see is the slow decline of the defense, as the greats from the early portion of the decade aged and/or moved on. For all the griping about the defense, much of it justified, the fact remains that the team has been able to field a defense that's competitive in terms of points allowed, even in the face of a near-total overhaul. Knowing that, it makes no sense to me when people start crying about the overall coaching.