Restructuring Wilfork and Our Arithmetic Infatuation

[Brady6]

400 pound guys on one leg don't get much demand. That's what I've seen.

Why would he be on one leg? He had the injury surgically repaired. The risk primarily is reinjury. I actually would be curious to know what offered more risk of rupture in the eyes of a doctor a freshly reconstructed Achilles on a 32 year old DT or an unrepaired Achilles. This types of injuries generally come from excessive abuse over long period of time.

 

[kennyb]

Why would he be on one leg? He had the injury surgically repaired. The risk primarily is reinjury. I actually would be curious to know what offered more risk of rupture in the eyes of a doctor a freshly reconstructed Achilles on a 32 year old DT or an unrepaired Achilles. This types of injuries generally come from excessive abuse over long period of time.

Good point. The other one is probably about to blow.

 

[TonyTucker]

Well, judging by that sideline shot of him late in the year, he certainly looks well fed. I think we know where Jake Bequette went.

 

[moosekill]

I love Wilfork; I think he is a special player who works hard to keep his body in great condition.

Love Vince, but balooning up to 400 lbs isn't really what a special player who works hard to keep his body in great conditions does.

 

[moosekill]

Why would he be on one leg? He had the injury surgically repaired. The risk primarily is reinjury. I actually would be curious to know what offered more risk of rupture in the eyes of a doctor a freshly reconstructed Achilles on a 32 year old DT or an unrepaired Achilles. This types of injuries generally come from excessive abuse over long period of time.

I hope he is all better, I am not a doctor, but my guess is the Patriots have more intimate knowledge of they situation than any of us do.

 

[varjao]

Love Vince, but balooning up to 400 lbs isn't really what a special player who works hard to keep his body in great conditions does.

Perfect.

I don't understand why he didn't work out on his shape, he has the technique, it's not only about weight to be a NT, he can't ever get close to the qb because he had more drag force than an airplane.

 

[Sciz]

I don't understand why he didn't work out on his shape, he has the technique, it's not only about weight to be a NT, he can't ever get close to the qb because he had more drag force than an airplane.

He was noticeably lighter in 2012 and wasn't any better because of it. He was right back to his bigger self in 2013. If he wanted to be smaller, he would. Looking at the endurance he's shown the last couple of seasons, I don't think you can at all question that he puts in a ton of work to keep himself in shape. He just benefits from having quite a bit of "bad" weight as well.

 

[moosekill]

He was noticeably lighter in 2012 and wasn't any better because of it. He was right back to his bigger self in 2013. If he wanted to be smaller, he would. Looking at the endurance he's shown the last couple of seasons, I don't think you can at all question that he puts in a ton of work to keep himself in shape. He just benefits from having quite a bit of "bad" weight as well.

Back to his bigger self and pretty much immediately injured. What works when you are 25 doesn't always work when you are 35. Carrying that huge amount of wait is very hard on your body. It looks like he decided to keep it on so far, which will make his recovery much more difficult.

 

[moosekill]

Each extra pound you carry is 3 to 5 extra pounds on your knees, hips and ankles. That is a lot of pounding on his whole body. Hopefully he will be working on it this off season.

 

[Brady6]

Love Vince, but balooning up to 400 lbs isn't really what a special player who works hard to keep his body in great conditions does.

I agree, but circumstances of the injury make it very difficult for him to maintain his weight. It is obvious that Wilfork is a big person and likely has a big appetite, if you eat like a NFL nose tackle but no longer have a NFL nose tackles workout regimen the weight is most likely going to pile on quickly. Wilfork’s list weight is 325 lbs. which is what it has been since he entered the NFL, he weighed 323 lbs. pre-draft. I am sure he has gained at least 25 lbs. since entering the NFL, so he was playing at 350-360 lbs. so if he weighs 400 bills he only has to lose 10% of his body weight to be back at his playing weight.

Personally, I do not think he ballooned up as much as everyone thinks, he looked bigger but that is probably more to do with the fact that he is not working out and fat looks sloppier and more bloated than muscle.

 

[Brady6]

Perfect.

I don't understand why he didn't work out on his shape, he has the technique, it's not only about weight to be a NT, he can't ever get close to the qb because he had more drag force than an airplane.

Have you ever tried running on a treadmill with your foot in a cast? He was laid up, the only way to keep your weight down is cardio and diet, and we know Bianca was not changing her kitchen routine. We saw Wilfork in December, when you are 400 pounds; you can lose 20 pounds in a week.

Including the playoffs Wilfork had nine sacks in 2011 and 2012 combined, the #1 NT on the free agent market Raji has not registered a sack since 2010. Poe has 4.5 sacks in his first two seasons, Nagata 6.5 sacks in his last 2 seasons. Wilfork gets to the QB as good as any player that plays his position in the NFL. He is not Atkins, Suh, or Watt, who is lining up at the 3-tech and 5-tech rushing the QB; he is a playing 1-tech and 0-tech.

 

[moosekill]

Have you ever tried running on a treadmill with your foot in a cast? He was laid up, the only way to keep your weight down is cardio and diet, and we know Bianca was not changing her kitchen routine. We saw Wilfork in December, when you are 400 pounds; you can lose 20 pounds in a week.

Including the playoffs Wilfork had nine sacks in 2011 and 2012 combined, the #1 NT on the free agent market Raji has not registered a sack since 2010. Poe has 4.5 sacks in his first two seasons, Nagata 6.5 sacks in his last 2 seasons. Wilfork gets to the QB as good as any player that plays his position in the NFL. He is not Atkins, Suh, or Watt, who is lining up at the 3-tech and 5-tech rushing the QB; he is a playing 1-tech and 0-tech.

Yes but, his injury may very well have had much to do with his body weight. Plus excusing him for gaining weight because he is hurt doesn't really cut it. He is an extremely highly paid professional athlete. His one job is to be in shape and play football. Once again, hopefully he comes back fine, I am just very worried about it.

 

[Brady6]

Yes but, his injury may very well have had much to do with his body weight. Plus excusing him for gaining weight because he is hurt doesn't really cut it. He is an extremely highly paid professional athlete. His one job is to be in shape and play football. Once again, hopefully he comes back fine, I am just very worried about it.

I do not excuse him but I do remember Brady and Gronkowski both being reported as “looking skinny” when they were rehabbing in 2008 and 2013, they are body types are obviously partial to weight loss whereas Wilfork is the opposite. I guess I just see it as the nature of the situation.

 

[moosekill]

I do not excuse him but I do remember Brady and Gronkowski both being reported as “looking skinny” when they were rehabbing in 2008 and 2013, they are body types are obviously partial to weight loss whereas Wilfork is the opposite. I guess I just see it as the nature of the situation.

There is a big difference between not being able to lift weights and losing muscle mass when you have a broken arm and gaining a bunch of weight when you have a leg injury. I wouldn't expect Vince to come to camp, even if completely healed, able to run as fast as he did pre injury, it will take him a while to get back to football shape. Very different than a millionaire not willing to watch what he eats, when all he has to do is watch what he has to eat.

I think while maybe not excusing him, you certainly are coming up with a bunch of excuses for him.

 

[Deus Irae]

400 pound guys on one leg don't get much demand. That's what I've seen.

Proud veterans who get their salaries crushed by their teams tend to decide to go elsewhere. As for the one leg thing, how long have you been his PT guy?

 

[MassPats38]

In terms of Wilfork's weight, I have never heard concerns from the team. Has he ever failed a conditioning test? I read an article in which he said his wife put him on a diet, but I have never heard the team looking at him with William Perry-type dissatisfaction.

I view this injury as an up/down thing. Either he can move on it, or he cannot. I do not believe this is a recurring injury issue, but rather a "can it be fixed?" problem. The team will know, and will have to adjust accordingly. If the team's doctors see him as a diminished player, then make a radical change. If not, spread the damage of his deal out and move forward as the team likely would have without the injury.

Give Wilfork credit in the reality that for years he has not followed NFL norms in terms of his abilities and size. If the odds are against him, then he is the type of guy to beat the odds. He is great for the team, and a rare force on the field when healthy. Nobody here has a crystal ball as to what will or will not happen physically, so it is pure folly to say cut him, make him eat the veteran minimum (same as cutting him because it is disrespectful to the nth degree to ask an All Pro to do that), or pay him in full. The team likely has a very good idea right now in terms of physical recovery, and that is the only evidence that matters.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Personally, I do not understand why everyone is so down on Vince Wilfork. He was a first team all pro in 2012, who had an injury to his Achilles that he sustained in the preseason, he was not able to play his best football in the first 3 games before the tendon completely gave out in game 4. He just turned 32 years old in November. In the early part of his career he played only about 50% of the defensive snaps so the mileage is not that high on him. He probably has 3-4 productive seasons left in him. Ted Washington signed here at age 35, he did not retire till he was 39.

Why would he be on one leg? He had the injury surgically repaired. The risk primarily is reinjury. I actually would be curious to know what offered more risk of rupture in the eyes of a doctor a freshly reconstructed Achilles on a 32 year old DT or an unrepaired Achilles. This types of injuries generally come from excessive abuse over long period of time.

There will be plenty of scar tissue there after the repair and that affects mobility and explosiveness, as the elasticity of the tendon will be poor (as it clearly was this past year, seeing as it popped on a fairly routine play). It will slow him down, but like you said, it's not like he's playing in the slot. It will be under a lot of stress, however, and that could limit his ability to recover from week-to-week and maintain effectiveness, but I do think it is something that they will be able to manage.

I'm not down on big Vince. I think he'll be an upgrade over anybody else they have and probably better than most any FAs out there. My main point is that there is still too much risk for either side to settle on a long-term contract now, but I do think that this will get worked out sometime between the beginning of training camp and the start of the regular season, when he is in the facility rehabbing under Patriots supervision on a daily basis. Thus, whatever difference there ends-up being between the projected $11M cap hit and the lower renegotiated number won't be play money for this year's FA class.