Reminder: 30 for 30, The Two Bills, tonight at 9...

[Bobsyouruncle]

Come on, man. Let's at least try to be somewhat fair and objective. Regardless of the validity of your other points, leaving the Giants because of a heart condition for which he ended up having multiple procedures, including bypass surgery, isn't a deliberate screw job.

True, it might not be a deliberate screw job. I can't prove when Parcells knew what.

When Parcells announced his retirement he denied having health issues and speculation was he wasn't happy with the new ownership. His heart surgery was a couple years later. Health wasn't the issue he claimed at the time. I'm not sure that reason isn't getting retroactively applied now.

If it was just the usual Parcells getting fed up and moving on after a few years as he tends to do, then he prevented both the NYG and BB from getting something they wanted. But yeah, I have no proof he would do that to screw everyone, I just don't find it hard to believe he would do it.

 

[Ring 6]

When they look at the trophy case B.B. says these are the 2 we won. Then he points to the other 2 and under his breath says those are the 2 we gave them

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

He was diagnosed with a heart problem and retired. Did you expect him to diagnose himself 5 months sooner?


Yeah but that was just a game, the got the comp.


That was crappy but I think B.B. would have been hc but parcels a meddling gm.


He deserved the picks.

For ignoring the fax and pulling another stunt? No he didn't deserve the picks. He should have dealt honestly with the situation.

He pretty much nodded his head when they asked if their was love between them and complemented and thanked him a lot.

It's not like he could say no.

I get why you don’t like Parcells

He doesn't mind screwing his friends over. That's a good reason to dislike anyone. I don't have any animosity towards him over NE because it worked out for the best anyway. I just think he isn't a very good person. I don't think it's real difficult to make that judgement based on his history.

but you are blind if you think that program showed B.B. doesn’t like him.

He expressed the same love and affection for Parcells as he does for every opponent at a press conference. I think the difference in their chemistry from the Browns era press conference and this one was obvious.

 

[Ring 6]

For ignoring the fax and pulling another stunt? No he didn't deserve the picks. He should have dealt honestly with the situation.

None of that changes the facts that B.B. was under contract and comp was necessary.

It's not like he could say no.

Why not?
At the beginning they asked him in the car to describe tuna. He said FRIEND MENTOR COMPETITOR. is your position that you know he was lying?

He doesn't mind screwing his friends over. That's a good reason to dislike anyone. I don't have any animosity towards him over NE because it worked out for the best anyway. I just think he isn't a very good person. I don't think it's real difficult to make that judgement based on his history.

You are free to like it dislike whoever you want for whatever reasons you want.

He expressed the same love and affection for Parcells as he does for every opponent at a press conference.

Completely untrue and disingenuous.

I think the difference in their chemistry from the Browns era press conference and this one was obvious.

So you think B.B. hates Parcells but says he considers him a fry TD and mentor and literally thanked him multiple times for his mentorship? For what reason? Why would he have done the show and been 100% complementary of tuna is he doesn’t like him?
Your tuna hate is blinding you.

 

[Deus Irae]

True, it might not be a deliberate screw job. I can't prove when Parcells knew what.

When Parcells announced his retirement he denied having health issues and speculation was he wasn't happy with the new ownership. His heart surgery was a couple years later. Health wasn't the issue he claimed at the time. I'm not sure that reason isn't getting retroactively applied now.

If it was just the usual Parcells getting fed up and moving on after a few years as he tends to do, then he prevented both the NYG and BB from getting something they wanted. But yeah, I have no proof he would do that to screw everyone, I just don't find it hard to believe he would do it.

You don't have the facts correct. Parcells left the Giants after the 1990 season (May 1991). Between then, and June 3 of 1992, he had 4 heart procedures, including open heart surgery (bypass).

 

[Wrath Mania]

FWIW, even if Parcells somehow could have known he was going to walk away after '90, it's worth pointing out that the Giants' GM at the time, George Young, did not like Belichick, and according to Haberstam's book, he often badmouthed BB to other execs around the league. Incidentally, Young also prevented Parcells from returning to the Giants in '97, which evidently is how he ended up flirting with the Jets instead.

 

[mosi]

Maybe it's my bias but Parcells came across like an a-hole.

He screwed the Giants on the way out by not letting them know he would retire.

Then he screwed NE while pulling the BS "consultant" card to avoid compensation.

Then he tried to screw BB by resigning. I think he fully intended to block BB from coaching while his own role in the "front office" would be another sham consultant job, while BB was stuck as HC in name only- being just the coordinator.

BB saw that it was a sham job and his friend was going to screw him so he quit. Then instead of being gracious and letting his long time assistant go he tried to screw Kraft out of picks (and succeeded).

There's really nothing he can say to erase his actions. He doesn't even apologize, it's just "circumstances maybe could be better." I think BB knows Parcells is an a-hole it's just that it's not worth dealing with his **** anymore. He doesn't seem to like him, but he's not worth hating now.

Yes, I was kinda thinking of that as well. Think how things would have been different if BB had taken over that Giants team.

I was also very impressed by how gracious BB is. He basically said the 2001-2004 was Parcell's team with a few exception (like BRADY!). I think when BB is done, he is going to make an amazing color announcer. I think he is much more communicative and funny that we see.

 

[1960Pats]

After seeing that show I'm going to cut Parcells some slack. I still don't want him in the Pats HOF though.

 

[Bubbatrammel]

Another thing that struck me about this doc is how deferential BB is to Parcells. He is very gracious in his comments, and is careful not to attack him in any way--it is clear from stuff written last decade, like Haberstam's book, that Parcells' behavior bordered on Bobby Knight-lite by the time they got to the Jets, and that BB was frankly tired of dealing with it. I also think there's probably some truth to what Harry Carson said.

What did Harry Carson say?

 

[sambam94]

Parcells has always been a d-bag

 

[RobertWeathers]

What did Harry Carson say?

BB said it was uncertainty of new ownership as the reason he resigned but at the very core of BB walking away from the Jets, the real reason was he wanted to get out from under Tuna and be his own man.

 

[upstater1]

Parcells was conniving with the league and the Jets a year prior to the Super Bowl.

The guy totally undercut that Super Bowl with the mess he created.

What more needs to be said?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I admit. I am a HUGE, biased Parcells fan. I'm almost as much of an apologist for him as I am for BB, TB12 or any other sports personality that has brought me happiness and entertainment. I think i've watched bits and pieces of that 30 for 30 maybe 5 times since it aired.

My dad, RW Sr. grew up - and still is a Giants fan and back in the 80s and 90s he'd take me down once a year to the Meadowlands to a Giants game. Obviously I grew up a Pats fan but it was "our thing" as father and son. When the Giants won in 86 and again in 1990 he was beyond happy (2007 and 2011 is not germain to my eventual point) and I was happy for him. When it comes to Tuna, RW Sr will never say anything bad about him. "I don't care if he is a jerk. We won two Super Bowls because of him.". Needless to say I was a bit of a Tuna fan myself before he landed in NE

I'm kinda the same way with Tuna and the Pats. I acknowledge Parcells is a self-serving, cutthroat, opportunist who at periods in his professional career did not handle things the best of ways. I believe he was extremely selfish and handled his courtship with the Jets beyond poorly and his actions absolutely were a distraction to the team. Did it change the outcome? Don't know.

For some of us who are old enough, we remember how bleek, dark and downright miserable the Pats were from 1989 to 1992. Relocation, blackouts, 1-15, 2-14 seasons, sexual harassment scandals. It was just awful. AWFUL.

For me, Tuna brought hope, respectability and most important winning and fun back to New England Patriots football. I do believe he deserves SOME acknowledgment for the success this team and us fans has enjoyed these last two decades. Make no mistake, BB/Kraft/TB12 deserve all of it.

I get how fans hate his guts and will never forgive him for how he left the team. I understand it. I think Kraft had a bit to do with it as well but that does not excuse Tuna's behavior. The man has flaws no doubt.

All in all, i'll always appreciate Tuna for what he did here and how he influenced the creation of the Greatest NFL Dynasty in history.

 

[Ring 6]

You don't have the facts correct. Parcells left the Giants after the 1990 season (May 1991). Between then, and June 3 of 1992, he had 4 heart procedures, including open heart surgery (bypass).

In the show he said he found about it just before retiring and was close to a heart attack with the blockage. He asked the dr would he have survived the heart attack and was told “50/50”

 

[Ring 6]

I admit. I am a HUGE, biased Parcells fan. I'm almost as much of an apologist for him as I am for BB, TB12 or any other sports personality that has brought me happiness and entertainment. I think i've watched bits and pieces of that 30 for 30 maybe 5 times since it aired.

My dad, RW Sr. grew up - and still is a Giants fan and back in the 80s and 90s he'd take me down once a year to the Meadowlands to a Giants game. Obviously I grew up a Pats fan but it was "our thing" as father and son. When the Giants won in 86 and again in 1990 he was beyond happy (2007 and 2011 is not germain to my eventual point) and I was happy for him. When it comes to Tuna, RW Sr will never say anything bad about him. "I don't care if he is a jerk. We won two Super Bowls because of him.". Needless to say I was a bit of a Tuna fan myself before he landed in NE

I'm kinda the same way with Tuna and the Pats. I acknowledge Parcells is a self-serving, cutthroat, opportunist who at periods in his professional career did not handle things the best of ways. I believe he was extremely selfish and handled his courtship with the Jets beyond poorly and his actions absolutely were a distraction to the team. Did it change the outcome? Don't know.

For some of us who are old enough, we remember how bleek, dark and downright miserable the Pats were from 1989 to 1992. Relocation, blackouts, 1-15, 2-14 seasons, sexual harassment scandals. It was just awful. AWFUL.

For me, Tuna brought hope, respectability and most important winning and fun back to New England Patriots football. I do believe he deserves SOME acknowledgment for the success this team and us fans has enjoyed these last two decades. Make no mistake, BB/Kraft/TB12 deserve all of it.

I get how fans hate his guts and will never forgive him for how he left the team. I understand it. I think Kraft had a bit to do with it as well but that does not excuse Tuna's behavior. The man has flaws no doubt.

All in all, i'll always appreciate Tuna for what he did here and how he influenced the creation of the Greatest NFL Dynasty in history.

My father was also a giant fan. As a kid I watched him suffer through the 70s and early 80s and I’d make fun of the giants all the time. He passed away in the summer of 1986 so he never saw them win, other than when he was a kid in the Gifford (his favorite) years.

 

[Ring 6]

I admit. I am a HUGE, biased Parcells fan. I'm almost as much of an apologist for him as I am for BB, TB12 or any other sports personality that has brought me happiness and entertainment. I think i've watched bits and pieces of that 30 for 30 maybe 5 times since it aired.

My dad, RW Sr. grew up - and still is a Giants fan and back in the 80s and 90s he'd take me down once a year to the Meadowlands to a Giants game. Obviously I grew up a Pats fan but it was "our thing" as father and son. When the Giants won in 86 and again in 1990 he was beyond happy (2007 and 2011 is not germain to my eventual point) and I was happy for him. When it comes to Tuna, RW Sr will never say anything bad about him. "I don't care if he is a jerk. We won two Super Bowls because of him.". Needless to say I was a bit of a Tuna fan myself before he landed in NE

I'm kinda the same way with Tuna and the Pats. I acknowledge Parcells is a self-serving, cutthroat, opportunist who at periods in his professional career did not handle things the best of ways. I believe he was extremely selfish and handled his courtship with the Jets beyond poorly and his actions absolutely were a distraction to the team. Did it change the outcome? Don't know.

For some of us who are old enough, we remember how bleek, dark and downright miserable the Pats were from 1989 to 1992. Relocation, blackouts, 1-15, 2-14 seasons, sexual harassment scandals. It was just awful. AWFUL.

For me, Tuna brought hope, respectability and most important winning and fun back to New England Patriots football. I do believe he deserves SOME acknowledgment for the success this team and us fans has enjoyed these last two decades. Make no mistake, BB/Kraft/TB12 deserve all of it.

I get how fans hate his guts and will never forgive him for how he left the team. I understand it. I think Kraft had a bit to do with it as well but that does not excuse Tuna's behavior. The man has flaws no doubt.

All in all, i'll always appreciate Tuna for what he did here and how he influenced the creation of the Greatest NFL Dynasty in history.

I’ve never been big in the on the “brought hope” argument that is often made for Bledsoe and Parcells.
Sure they came along at a bad stretch but whether they showed up or not the bad stretch would end. It’s not like a curse. Hell within 4-5 95% of a bad teams players, coaches And staff are gone and eventually they get it right. Even the Jete hand stretches where they aren’t an embarrassment to the game.
I think players and coaches are good for what they deliver and you are t better than what you delivered if the guy before you sucked.

And the idea that Parcells was in any way responsible for the success of the B.B. era is laughable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’ve never been big in the on the “brought hope” argument that is often made for Bledsoe and Parcells.
Sure they came along at a bad stretch but whether they showed up or not the bad stretch would end. It’s not like a curse. Hell within 4-5 95% of a bad teams players, coaches And staff are gone and eventually they get it right. Even the Jete hand stretches where they aren’t an embarrassment to the game.
I think players and coaches are good for what they deliver and you are t better than what you delivered if the guy before you sucked.

There is no guarantee the bad stretch would have ended.

What we do know is Tuna was a winning coach with the Giants and was now in NE. That is hope.

And the idea that Parcells was in any way responsible for the success of the B.B. era is laughable.

Yea no way was he responsible. Thats nuts. Getting BB in here so Kraft could get to know him and developing Bru, Willie, Ted J, Troy and Ty into pros I'll give him acknowledgment for doing.

 

[Uptown]

Vikings thought they had Bill Belichick as a coach ... until phone rang at 6 a.m.

 

[Ring 6]

There is no guarantee the bad stretch would have ended.

What we do know is Tuna was a winning coach with the Giants and was now in NE. That is hope.

So 4 years of .500 football followed by returning to the never ending bad stretch
does what?

Yea no way was he responsible. Thats nuts. Getting BB in here so Kraft could get to know him and developing Bru, Willie, Ted J, Troy and Ty into pros I'll give him acknowledgment for doing.

So then every coach who ever coached one of your players deserves credit for your success?
By this argument Pete Carroll was more responsible for the success than Parcells, as well as Bobby’s Grier because he shopped for the groceries that you are giving Parcells credit for.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

BB said it was uncertainty of new ownership as the reason he resigned but at the very core of BB walking away from the Jets, the real reason was he wanted to get out from under Tuna and be his own man.

bb saw right through weasel woody johnson, hated steve gutman and was tired of being parcells’s puppet when he knew he was superior to parcells.

parcells knew much of his success was directly due to bb

very obvious