REISS: Thornton Already Back at Work

[Sicilian]

There aren't a lot of successful drafted/UDFA WR's to make comparisons here, but:

Jakobi went from 26/359 to 59/729 year 1 to year 2.
Deion Branch 43/489 to 57/803.

The few that HAVE worked out have made significant strides in year 2. Can't think of any that treaded water in year 2 then broke out in year 3 (for the recent Pats at least, I'm sure there are some throughout the league).

I thought he made some good small steps towards the end of 2022, but 2023 is an important year for him. Hopefully he makes a noticeable step forward.

 

[Real fan 02]

What's sort of interesting is that it already felt like they were molding him in the Deion Branch type of self-preservation - get a ton of yards and then get down. I'm good with him playing like that if the production is there.

Thornton, like Marcus Jones has elite speed.. he has the ability to be a home run hitter... can't wait to see what BOB can do with him...

 

[PatsFan2]

There aren't a lot of successful drafted/UDFA WR's to make comparisons here, but:

Jakobi went from 26/359 to 59/729 year 1 to year 2.
Deion Branch 43/489 to 57/803.

The few that HAVE worked out have made significant strides in year 2. Can't think of any that treaded water in year 2 then broke out in year 3 (for the recent Pats at least, I'm sure there are some throughout the league).

I thought he made some good small steps towards the end of 2022, but 2023 is an important year for him. Hopefully he makes a noticeable step forward.

Nice David Givens many moons ago went form 92yds his Rookie year to 510yds in year 2 a decent jump for a 7th Rounder.

 

[Sicilian]

Nice David Givens many moons ago went form 92yds his Rookie year to 510yds in year 2 a decent jump for a 7th Rounder.

Thank you! For some reason I always have a blind spot with Givens. I forget he was a Patriots draft pick, and not one of the FA they brought in for those early 2000's teams.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thank you! For some reason I always have a blind spot with Givens. I forget he was a Patriots draft pick, and not one of the FA they brought in for those early 2000's teams.

David Givens got better and better until he left via FA.

David Givens Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Tennessee Titans Wide Receiver David Givens on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

 

[Real fan 02]

David Givens got better and better until he left via FA.

David Givens Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Tennessee Titans Wide Receiver David Givens on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

Yes, givens was a good player had great hands and made big plays in playoffs...

He injured his knee when he left and signed with the titans..

 

[Real fan 02]

Nice David Givens many moons ago went form 92yds his Rookie year to 510yds in year 2 a decent jump for a 7th Rounder.

And that was at a time where we ran the ball a ton...

 

[DaBruinz]

Tre Nixon has been with the Patriots for two seasons and hasn't played a single offensive snap. To expect him to have a significant role next year is a lot to ask. Even Edelman who was converted from QB had 37 receptions his rookie year. To my knowledge, I don't think Nixon has even made it to the active roster at any point yet or been active on game day.

While Edelman had 37 receptions his rookie season, the had 32 COMBINED over his next 3 seasons.
Nixon has been buried on this team until now. As a rookie, the Pats had just signed Bourne and Agholor to go with Meyers, Harry and Olszewski. Last year, they added Thornton and Parker while removing Harry and Olszewski. Both years they also had Wilkerson as well.

Nixon may not amount to anything. But players like Brown and Edelman took years to crack the roster as receivers on a regular basis.

 

[Real fan 02]

While Edelman had 37 receptions his rookie season, the had 32 COMBINED over his next 3 seasons.
Nixon has been buried on this team until now. As a rookie, the Pats had just signed Bourne and Agholor to go with Meyers, Harry and Olszewski. Last year, they added Thornton and Parker while removing Harry and Olszewski. Both years they also had Wilkerson as well.

Nixon may not amount to anything. But players like Brown and Edelman took years to crack the roster as receivers on a regular basis.

I believe Nixon is a practice squad player... the team must have some plans with him... but your right he's hung on for a while..

 

[Real fan 02]

There aren't a lot of successful drafted/UDFA WR's to make comparisons here, but:

Jakobi went from 26/359 to 59/729 year 1 to year 2.
Deion Branch 43/489 to 57/803.

The few that HAVE worked out have made significant strides in year 2. Can't think of any that treaded water in year 2 then broke out in year 3 (for the recent Pats at least, I'm sure there are some throughout the league).

I thought he made some good small steps towards the end of 2022, but 2023 is an important year for him. Hopefully he makes a noticeable step forward.

Kembrell Thompkins is another player who won over Brady's trust actually played well.. it's a wonder why he didn't stuck around longer...

 

[DaBruinz]

Agree. Plus Nixon has been with the team only 1 year not 2. Regarding player development...Damian Harris carried the ball 4 times his rookie year.

Nixon was drafted in 2021. He's spent the last 2 years on the Practice squad.

 

[Rob0729]

While Edelman had 37 receptions his rookie season, the had 32 COMBINED over his next 3 seasons.
Nixon has been buried on this team until now. As a rookie, the Pats had just signed Bourne and Agholor to go with Meyers, Harry and Olszewski. Last year, they added Thornton and Parker while removing Harry and Olszewski. Both years they also had Wilkerson as well.

Nixon may not amount to anything. But players like Brown and Edelman took years to crack the roster as receivers on a regular basis.

I am not writing off Nixon, but I am not penciling him in as the Pats slot guy who will get quick slants and screens and pick up yards after the catch. The Pats still need to get a guy like that who is reliable.

 

[Sicilian]

Kembrell Thompkins is another player who won over Brady's trust actually played well.. it's a wonder why he didn't stuck around longer...

True, but I was looking for examples of players that ended up having good stints with the Patriots, who showed it by improving in year 2. Thompkins production actually got worse in year 2 compared to his rookie year (resulting in him being cut mid-season).

This is good follow up exercise though: Players who had similar (or better) rookie seasons than Thornton who DIDN'T end up working out, and seeing what they did in year 2 as examples:

Aaron Dobson had 37/519 (with 4 TDs) his rookie year. Then was hurt and had 16 total catches the rest of his career.

N'Keal Harry had a better statistical year 2 (12/105 to 33/309) then... well, we all know. Not good numbers in either year, but technically a player who improved in year 2 and still failed overall.

Chad Jackson: 13/152 and then ZILCH.

Bethel Johnson: 16/209 and then got worse year 2 and beyond (good KR though).

It's really too bad about Malcolm Mitchell's injuries, because he was the most promising rookie receiver we've had since Branch.

So other than N'Keal Harry, who's improvement was still really unimpressive, the pattern seems pretty clear: If a player has a noticeable increase in production from year 1 to year 2, they're probably going to do alright here. But if they don't? There are no recent examples of players who then suddenly "got it" in year 3. So 2023 is incredibly important for Thornton.

 

[PatsFan2]

While Edelman had 37 receptions his rookie season, the had 32 COMBINED over his next 3 seasons.
Nixon has been buried on this team until now. As a rookie, the Pats had just signed Bourne and Agholor to go with Meyers, Harry and Olszewski. Last year, they added Thornton and Parker while removing Harry and Olszewski. Both years they also had Wilkerson as well.

Nixon may not amount to anything. But players like Brown and Edelman took years to crack the roster as receivers on a regular basis.

Yes I endorse that message.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am not writing off Nixon, but I am not penciling him in as the Pats slot guy who will get quick slants and screens and pick up yards after the catch. The Pats still need to get a guy like that who is reliable.

Wilkerson > Nixon any Rookie WR for the 2023 Draft > Nixon.

 

[TheRainMaker]

People seem to forget Givens was an outside WR and a gamer. Made many key sideline grabs in big games.

There's no way Thornton weighs 183 pounds. He's around the 160 range.

 

[Zuma]

Wilkerson > Nixon any Rookie WR for the 2023 Draft > Nixon.

Your basing your opinion on these stats...

Wilkerson

 

[Real fan 02]

True, but I was looking for examples of players that ended up having good stints with the Patriots, who showed it by improving in year 2. Thompkins production actually got worse in year 2 compared to his rookie year (resulting in him being cut mid-season).

This is good follow up exercise though: Players who had similar (or better) rookie seasons than Thornton who DIDN'T end up working out, and seeing what they did in year 2 as examples:

Aaron Dobson had 37/519 (with 4 TDs) his rookie year. Then was hurt and had 16 total catches the rest of his career.

N'Keal Harry had a better statistical year 2 (12/105 to 33/309) then... well, we all know. Not good numbers in either year, but technically a player who improved in year 2 and still failed overall.

Chad Jackson: 13/152 and then ZILCH.

Bethel Johnson: 16/209 and then got worse year 2 and beyond (good KR though).

It's really too bad about Malcolm Mitchell's injuries, because he was the most promising rookie receiver we've had since Branch.

So other than N'Keal Harry, who's improvement was still really unimpressive, the pattern seems pretty clear: If a player has a noticeable increase in production from year 1 to year 2, they're probably going to do alright here. But if they don't? There are no recent examples of players who then suddenly "got it" in year 3. So 2023 is incredibly important for Thornton.

Gotcha!! Taylor price was another player that I believe was a 3 round pick.. to your points that's some interesting statistics..

It's so difficult to gadge with the patriots, because, the smallest thing a player can do.. can take a player out of favor with the coaching staff. Looking back on it... yes Mitchell was such a ray of sunshine from all the duds we had at WR.. it's hard to see his career end before it began... at least he got a ring..

That speaks to just how bad in retrospect the WR draft has been.. Thornton actually I feel considering the ineptitude on offense played well in spurts.. he made crucial catches in spots and had some drops... I believe with his speed he will be a big part of the BOB offense

With groh involved heavily in the drafting do u anticipate that changing?

 

[Sicilian]

Gotcha!! Taylor price was another player that I believe was a 3 round pick.. to your points that's some interesting statistics..

It's so difficult to gadge with the patriots, because, the smallest thing a player can do.. can take a player out of favor with the coaching staff. Looking back on it... yes Mitchell was such a ray of sunshine from all the duds we had at WR.. it's hard to see his career end before it began... at least he got a ring..

That speaks to just how bad in retrospect the WR draft has been.. Thornton actually I feel considering the ineptitude on offense played well in spurts.. he made crucial catches in spots and had some drops... I believe with his speed he will be a big part of the BOB offense

With groh involved heavily in the drafting do u anticipate that changing?

You know, it's interesting, because as bad as the results have been, the most jarring thing I've noticed going through the Patriots WR draft picks in the last 20 years is just how FEW of them they've taken in first three rounds. Just finding examples in the above post was tough. So obviously the hit rate is below average, but they also just don't take that many swings at it, for whatever reason. We'll see if Groh changes that. We've only got the one draft so far to judge.

 

[PatsFan2]

Your basing your opinion on these stats...

Wilkerson

Yep at least Wilkerson has NFL stats Nixon have Zero!