Reiss: Mankins demands trade, will not sign RFA tender

[Rob0729]

branch 'didn't control his own destiny, either, right?'

a guy who makes a stand can shoot his way out of town. all he has to do is say some crap that blows up the bridges and there is no return. if mankins makes his stand in a way that having him around will be a problem, the pats will have to move him.

The Pats screwed up with Branch by allowing him to seek a trade which he found suitors. When the Pats refused to trade him, it gave Branch an opening to file a grievance with the league. The league then pressured the Pats to trade Branch so a prescidence would not be set allowing other players to shoot their way out of town.

Unless the Pats actually let Mankins shop himself around for a deal and promise to trade him if he gets what he wants with another team, there is absolutely no way that Mankins will end up like Branch.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

Perhaps if you'd learn to read posts rather than just jumping on people in such a knee-jerk homer manner, you could have avoid both being wrong and looking foolish. Note my very first post in this thread:



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/344570-reiss-mankins-demands-trade-will-not-sign-rfa-tender.html#post1838308

There is no propaganda or spin in what I've posted about the contract relative to the Evans contract. I leave that to you.

You're aboslutely right Doos, I am totally foolish. Thanks for clearing that up. Market value means nothing. Mankins was totally low-balled, because it was 20% less than the hight paid LG, regardless of that contracts relationship with market value. If you'd like to inlcude any other piece of anything you've said, other than the piece I originally disagreed with, I will probably understand even further. Please, any further insight you can add is genuinely needed.

 

[jmt57]

Interestingly, the quote from Reiss orignially said the followingt

"I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address contract after the uncapped year."

Somewhere along the line Reiss changed what it said



Logan Mankins says he wants to be traded from the New England Patriots - ESPN Boston

One wonders what Mankins actually said.

At best even "during" the uncapped year is clearly not a conveyance of getting something done in the pre-season.

Regardless of what Mankins specifically said, I think it's a fair assumption that what he meant to say was 'during the uncapped year', not after.

After going through this whole thread far too many people are jumping on that as some sort of proof that Mankins is in the wrong on this debate.

 

[Deus Irae]

Making 1.5M for the 2010 season and on a team like the Chiefs? Now that's amusing.

Mankins cannot be traded because he's not under contract. I don't think he's going to sign a $1.5m contract just to facilitate a trade to make that same $1.5m, do you?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

you are wrong. the patriots were one of the teams who voted to end the past CBA. so they are indeed responsible partly for this situation.
.

No I am right, because I said precisely what you said; i.e. the Patriots are only ONE of the team that he should blame, and I added that his own player's association is not without blame:

...in part he can blame the Patriots, ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER NFL TEAM, and his OWN PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION!

comprende?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

You're aboslutely right Doos, I am totally foolish. Thanks for clearing that up. Market value means nothing. Mankins was totally low-balled, because it was 20% less than the hight paid LG, regardless of that contracts relationship with market value. If you'd like to inlcude any other piece of anything you've said, other than the piece I originally disagreed with, I will probably understand even further. Please, any further insight you can add is genuinely needed.

Sure.


1.) Learn what "market value" actually is. The current established "market value" of a two time pro bowl guard is the Evans deal.

2.) Re-read the definition of Low-ball, because you still don't seem to grasp the meaning.

3.) Read threads first, then post.

Hope that helps.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Who woulda thunk, Logan "Get Paid" Mankins.

Mankins is a solid, high level gaurd, but IMO, he ain't worth 8M a year. Which is the exact reason it wasn't offered to him.

Peace out, Mankins........ Trade him for whatever you can get, or let sit and make NOTHING, like 10% of the rest of us are. I don't care. You just put yourself in the "dead to me" bracket with Assante, Branch, et all......

 

[RayClay]

branch 'didn't control his own destiny, either, right?'

a guy who makes a stand can shoot his way out of town. all he has to do is say some crap that blows up the bridges and there is no return. if mankins makes his stand in a way that having him around will be a problem, the pats will have to move him.

We can only hope Mankins situation works out like Branch's. A first round pick for a borderline 2nd-3rd with some success who did nothing after we traded him.

 

[Wolfpack]

branch 'didn't control his own destiny, either, right?'

a guy who makes a stand can shoot his way out of town. all he has to do is say some crap that blows up the bridges and there is no return. if mankins makes his stand in a way that having him around will be a problem, the pats will have to move him.

After the February, 2004, Super Bowl (#38), Ty Law pretty much called Bill Belichick every name in the book, trying to force the Patriots to trade or cut him.

It didn't work then, and it won't work for Mankins now.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

...a five-year deal worth approximately $7 million per season and would place the two-time Pro Bowler comfortably among the top five paid guards in the NFL...

How insulting is that? For a clearly top five player to be offer only a top 5 salary. How very insulting!

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

Sure.


1.) Learn what "market value" actually is. The current established "market value" of a two time pro bowl guard is the Evans deal.

2.) Re-read the definition of Low-ball, because you still don't seem to grasp the meaning.

3.) Read threads first, then post.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Doos, will do.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

...a five-year deal worth approximately $7 million per season and would place the two-time Pro Bowler comfortably among the top five paid guards in the NFL...

How insulting is that? For a clearly top five player to be offer only a top 5 salary. How very insulting!

You're right, he was clearly low-balled.

 

[mgteich]

Asante Mankins may be forced to play one more year for the patriots or not. Belichick must decided whether he wants Mankins in the clubhouse this year. Mankins will clearly do whatever he needs to in order to protect his position so that he will surely be a UFA in 2011 if the patriots force him to play for $1.5M. But I wouldn't expect to see him at very many practices.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

...a five-year deal worth approximately $7 million per season and would place the two-time Pro Bowler comfortably among the top five paid guards in the NFL...

How insulting is that? For a clearly top five player to be offer only a top 5 salary. How very insulting!

For sure......... Also.... Diminishing returns. He'd still be getting 7M in 4-5 years, when chances are high, he won't be a top-5 gaurd anymore...... He's marginally one NOW. Don't get me wrong, He's very good, but NOT great and has issues.

We gave him a fair offer.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

you are wrong. the patriots were one of the teams who voted to end the past CBA. so they are indeed responsible partly for this situation.

interesting that they would blow off a high character guy like mankins. the team needs more guys like him not fewer.

I believe absent a couple of gutless abstensions it was a unanimous vote. Kraft helped negotiate the ill conceived compromise that saved the league from a strike back in 2006. But because he knew it wasn't a fair deal they negotiated an opt out for either side. Owners opted out because they had to. The union got greedy demanding 60% of an expanding pie and wanted no responsibility for the cost of expanding it, and is now paying the price. That same union agreed to all the lousy provisions like 6 year RFA's and 30% rule as part of any opt out because they were busy selling their rank and file on the wonders of an uncapped season...and how smart Gene Upshaw was...

Wilfork was upset at the prospect of being franchise tagged, but he handled himself like a pro and voila, he got his deal in pretty short order AFTER being tagged. Mankins unrealistically dug his heels in and now he's digging his own grave. He needs Bianca in his grill....

This is an odd group in this OL. Have a chicken and egg relationship with Brady, too. Not that they ever acknowledge it. One of the more inconsistent units out of the gate over the last couple of seasons and absolutely the last group to step up and call on themselves to be accountable...ever. If anything more inclined to deflect criticism. Brady doesn't get sacked a lot, he just increasingly gets the snot knocked out of him. And when the RB gets knocked in the media BB talks in vague terms about needing more consistent run blocking. I think Light's mortality flashed when Vollmer emerged. Whole group needed a good kick in the ass. Shoulda administered it in April but apparently Bill saw more pressing needs elsewhere. Just gotta hope he knows more than we do and he's got a plan.

 

[JMarr]

Mankins cannot be traded because he's not under contract. I don't think he's going to sign a $1.5m contract just to facilitate a trade to make that same $1.5m, do you?

With a two year hiatus from football being a real possibility, he has no good options as of right now. So no, I wouldn't rule that out.

He's completely effed himself by saying everything he said.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Asante Mankins may be forced to play one more year for the patriots or not. Belichick must decided whether he wants Mankins in the clubhouse this year. Mankins will clearly do whatever he needs to in order to protect his position so that he will surely be a UFA in 2011 if the patriots force him to play for $1.5M. But I wouldn't expect to see him at very many practices.

Mankins never had much effect in the clubhouse to begin with. He can't show up until he signs a contract and he can't not show up once he does. He's screwed. He can play the entire season for $3.5M or he can play the entire season for $1.5M or he can play from week 10 on for $400K. If he does any of those things he will be a UFA just in time for a lockout... If he sits out the entire season he's a RFA all over again whenever they play again unless a new CBA says otherwise... He can demand a trade til the cows come home...can't be traded until he signs his tender and can't holdout once he does.

 

[alphilip77]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

The owners voted for the CBA. The owners voted, unanimously, to opt out of the CBA. This year is the result of that opt out. To claim that this is something out of the F.O.'s control is simply wrong. The owners had the power to avoid this, and they chose not to. Right or wrong, they certainly did have the control."

Actually, when you look at it from only the Patriot's perspective, I'm not really wrong. Even if Kraft had voted for the CBA, what's to say that everyone else would have followed suit? Thus, it was out of their (as in the just the Patriot's F.O) control.

"Seymour had a quiet holdout years ago. He's been franchised, which means that he'll be making huge coin this year. Samuel's contract means he'll be making huge coin. As for the post season, the Patriots have missed it once and been bounced in the wild card round once, in the two seasons since Samuel was traded. I'm not sure tossing around the postseason argument is where you want to take this, given recent history."

I was referring to the teams that Seymour and Asante are on, NOT the Patriots. Seymour will in all likelyhood never see another playoff appearance as long as he is in Oakland, and Samuel is part of a team that has yet to (and IMO never will) win a SB. I'm only saying that his chances of actually winning a SB will decrease if/when he leaves the Pats (unless he went to a contender like San Diego or Minnesota for example (these aren't teams I'm specualting him going to, just examples)).

"Really? What left guard has Dante made better than Mankins during the BB era?

My bad, I should have said BB. But to my recollection, Mankins is the only O-lineman we've taking in the 1st. Now they aren't guards, but Light, Neal, Koppen, and Vollmer were all taken in the second round-UDFA. All I'm saying is we can simply find someone else who can fill in for him.

"To say you went over the top would be an understatement on my part.

Yeah, well that's your opinion. Good for you.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Wilfork accepted being paid the average of the top 5 NT's like a man. If Mankins is offered the average of the top 5 guards to sign a one year contract for 2010, I'm sure he will take it like a man also. This is a Samuel situation, not a Wilfork one.

And just BTW, the team decided that Wilfork is a key element to the defense, and one of the highest 2010 priorities for the team. I don't think that team the considers Mankins in the same situation. I certainly don't. I want us to sign Mankins, but personally I think that it was more important to sign Wilfork and Bodden (and extend Brady).

In the end, I don't think that this situation should be a surprise.

I believe absent a couple of gutless abstensions it was a unanimous vote. Kraft helped negotiate the ill conceived compromise that saved the league from a strike back in 2006. But because he knew it wasn't a fair deal they negotiated an opt out for either side. Owners opted out because they had to. The union got greedy demanding 60% of an expanding pie and wanted no responsibility for the cost of expanding it, and is now paying the price. That same union agreed to all the lousy provisions like 6 year RFA's and 30% rule as part of any opt out because they were busy selling their rank and file on the wonders of an uncapped season...and how smart Gene Upshaw was...

Wilfork was upset at the prospect of being franchise tagged, but he handled himself like a pro and voila, he got his deal in pretty short order AFTER being tagged. Mankins unrealistically dug his heels in and now he's digging his own grave. He needs Bianca in his grill....

This is an odd group in this OL. Have a chicken and egg relationship with Brady, too. Not that they ever acknowledge it. One of the more inconsistent units out of the gate over the last couple of seasons and absolutely the last group to step up and call on themselves to be accountable...ever. If anything more inclined to deflect criticism. Brady doesn't get sacked a lot, he just increasingly gets the snot knocked out of him. And when the RB gets knocked in the media BB talks in vague terms about needing more consistent run blocking. I think Light's mortality flashed when Vollmer emerged. Whole group needed a good kick in the ass. Shoulda administered it in April but apparently Bill saw more pressing needs elsewhere. Just gotta hope he knows more than we do and he's got a plan.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

This makes me so mad that I can barely see straight!

I was looking for you earlier. I had a horse but only one saddle, so I couldn't find you.