Reiss draws parallel between Crable and other late-bloomers turned solid players

[Kontradiction]

Not Meachem. He didn't get it at all and was a significant disappointment with work ethic early on. And speaking of flaws in arguments, I have never heard a work ethic or "getting it" issue with Crable, just a problem with staying healthy.

So you think that we, as fans, can absolutely know for a fact that Crable fully understands the playbook before he plays in a single regular season game at the professional level?

 

[FarScapeR]

I don't get the overt pessimism. Not every player is going to have an immediate impact like Mayo, but lets give the guy who's spent two years on IR some credit, before writing him off because he was inactive for 8 weeks.

He could be another O'Connell, but we'll have to wait and see what those cuts look like come end of training camp.

 

[reflexblue]

When the third time is the charm - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Drawing comparsion between Crable and other players who have been late bloomers but have turned into solid contributors. I think this is good food for thought.

I read a couple of these imo there is no comparison Crable has missed his first two years, for example he wasn't a back up. I can't EVER recall a player missing so much time and having any kind of success.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

So you think that we, as fans, can absolutely know for a fact that Crable fully understands the playbook before he plays in a single regular season game at the professional level?

No but I've never read anything to suggest his smarts nor his effort is a problem. Do I know ? No. And I doubt you do either.

Meachem was known to be a work ethic issue his first year.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't get the overt pessimism. Not every player is going to have an immediate impact like Mayo, but lets give the guy who's spent two years on IR some credit, before writing him off because he was inactive for 8 weeks.

He could be another O'Connell, but we'll have to wait and see what those cuts look like come end of training camp.

No but I've never read anything to suggest his smarts nor his effort is a problem. Do I know ? No. And I doubt you do either.

Meachem was known to be a work ethic issue his first year.

There's no pressmism here. I'm just being honest with myself. Sure he's had time to study the playbook, but being able to pass a written "playbook test" and actually KNOWNING the plays on the field against an opposing offense are two different things. We've heard time and time again that one of the biggest struggles defensive rookies face is being able to simply react to a given play in the Belichick two gap 3-4 instead of having to think first what your correct assignment is. We have one of the toughest defensive playbooks and philosophies in the NFL. Maybe Crable can step in and have his instincts assist him with reacting instead of having to think. Maybe he won't be able to do that. The pure fact is that we have to wait and see when he gets on the field how much he has truly "learned".

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

There's no pressmism here. I'm just being honest with myself. Sure he's had time to study the playbook, but being able to pass a written "playbook test" and actually KNOWNING the plays on the field against an opposing offense are two different things. We've heard time and time again that one of the biggest struggles defensive rookies face is being able to simply react to a given play in the Belichick two gap 3-4 instead of having to think first what your correct assignment is. We have one of the toughest defensive playbooks and philosophies in the NFL. Maybe Crable can step in and have his instincts assist him with reacting instead of having to think. Maybe he won't be able to do that. The pure fact is that we have to wait and see when he gets on the field how much he has truly "learned".

I don't disagree with anything you've said other than your apparent assumption that there's a learning issue. Present some facts about his work ethic or his intelligence either on the field or off. Until you can do this you are going down a path that Crable doesn't deserve.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't disagree with anything you've said other than your apparent assumption that there's a learning issue. Present some facts about his work ethic or his intelligence either on the field or off. Until you can do this you are going down a path that Crable doesn't deserve.

Then you pretty much DO disagree with everything that I've said. Try reading my posts one more time. I never said that there is a learning issue. I've only said that we don't and cannot know for sure how his studying of the playbook is going to translate on the field. Sure, Patriots related fluff pieces in the media have been there to remind us that he has been studying and working out and preparing his body for the coming year. However, there is no way we can know for certain how that studying will impact his ability to read and react without thinking in between.

In short, to say that a guy can come in right off the bench and read and react immediately without thinking just because he's had time to sit in a living room and read over the playbook is to try to discredit what most of our rookies and veteran signees have said about this defensive philosophy.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Then you pretty much DO disagree with everything that I've said. Try reading my posts one more time.

I read and understood your posts.

You started out saying :

For one, the guys that he listed all seemed to "get it" (such as Welker), had good work ethic, and were fits in the system. As of right now, we don't know for sure if Crable has any of the three.

And while it is correct that we don't know for sure that he "gets it" or that he has a good work ethic, I am unaware of any issues for either. Instead of looking down at the guy because I can't prove he's smart, I choose to presume him innocent and wait to see what, if anything, he can do on the field. You choose to presume him guilty by saying we don't know for sure he gets it or is smart. And that's your prerogative but I disagree with that thinking.

 

[RussFrancis]

The one significant player that I think of who didnt do jack squat his first 2 years and immediately stepped up and made a massive impact was Phillip Rivers leading the Chargers to a 13-3 record his first year starting.

There's obviouslyno substitute for game action and experience. But players such as Rivers have definitely proven that warming a bench for 2 years and never setting foot on an actual field isnt a career killer.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Working your way up the ladder is one thing ... having an NFL body is another.

History is full of examples of great athletes who never made it due to genetics ... Crable falls into this category IMO. Off the charts athleticism combined with a frail body ... it is what it is.

 

[RussFrancis]

Working your way up the ladder is one thing ... having an NFL body is another.

History is full of examples of great athletes who never made it due to genetics ... Crable falls into this category IMO. Off the charts athleticism combined with a frail body ... it is what it is.

Hoping against hope, but if I were a betting man, Id atleast take the overwhelming odds that this will be the case.

 

[Patspsycho]

I read a couple of these imo there is no comparison Crable has missed his first two years, for example he wasn't a back up. I can't EVER recall a player missing so much time and having any kind of success.

Not sure where you think that means I necessarily agree with Reiss- by food for thought, I mean this would probably make for good discussion fodder/mental stimulation, because Reiss makes some points and stretches credulity with others.

 

[Off The Grid]

Early warning signs of Bristolitis...

Hah!! Just saw this one!!

 

[Off The Grid]

I can't EVER recall a player missing so much time and having any kind of success.

That's an interesting point.

Can anyone remember such a story? Missing virtually all of his first two years like that, and then going on to success?

I'd be greatly interested, if anyone knows of any such.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

This is probably an article Reiss wishes he could have back.

I like the optimism but the article is flawed. For one, the guys that he listed all seemed to "get it" (such as Welker), had good work ethic, and were fits in the system. As of right now, we don't know for sure if Crable has any of the three. We won't know until he gets on the field. On top of that, he only talked about one guy who only "sort of" played the same position as Crable. He did leave out Harrison. That's a smaller flaw in the article though.

I'll give Reiss te benefit of the doubt. He's a solid writer and it's the dead part of the offseason.

Both true.

Not to mention that almost all on the list were not "injury cases". They all were available, and participating in practices, doing typical game day preps. They just weren't playing.

Crable has been IR'd and essentially shelved. The two situation aren't REMOTELY comparable. Don't get me wrong, I hope he comes in an contributes, but color me skeptical to this point.

 

[signbabybrady]

"Get it" as in had a good football IQ.

Agin we as fans are not going to really find out anything like that until he hits the field. I don't totally disagree with your thoughts but I think you keep using hindsight when you refer to other guys. To me I am down on him because of health but until I have reason to think otherwise I am optimistic about the rest (football IQ, getting it, system fit, whatever you want to call it). If the rest wasn't ideal than he would be gone by now (see Oconnell). So my Crable opinion would be Pessimistic health wise but optimistic the rest of the way.

I've heard it too and I hope he knows the playbook, but we shouldn't assume anything. Remember that Chad Jackson also hung around for a couple of years too despite injury issues.

When I said hung around I didn't mean on the roster I meant he hung around the facilities to learn and study with the team. (I can not say that Chad didn't but you didn't seem to get what I meant by hung around)

Again, his fit in the scheme shouldn't be assumed until we see him on he field for something more than a few series in a preseason game. At this point, he should still be looked at as a rookie, so to speak.

I would say exactly the opposite just by the fact he was drafted early you can assume a system fit. How many talented LBs to we complain we passed on because of a lack of system fit....if BB didn't persume he could fit he wouldn't have drafted to begin. So I would say he likely fits whether he is talented enough is still to be seen.

These players are exception and not the rule. There have been quite a few players that have had success after tumultuous/injury plagued first seasons in the league. There have been more who have just washed out of the NFL altogether. Like I said, I like the optimism. I hope Reiss can one day include Crable in a piece like this. But we shouldn't get too overhyped on him.

I would be cautious in getting to excited about Crable as well but I think it is a decent idea for an article to point to guys who may not have the same road but share some similarities.

 

[bucky]

This is probably an article Reiss wishes he could have back.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.

 

[FarScapeR]

The reason why most people are willing to give Crable a chance after two lost seasons is because we all knew/were informed that he'd literally go through some growing pains, which he has. I think our optimism has (rightly) been tempered, and at this point, the question is whether he's going to be able to stay healthy. Anything beyond that is pure uninformed speculation.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Regardless of what Crable has or has not done in the past, his football life as a Patriot is now:

1.) He has to prove he is healthy and can stay healthy. If he can not do that then he is toast.

2.) He has to prove his physical and mental toughness to his position coach, BB and his teammates.

A huge indicator of where he is in the process is by watching who he stands next to and talks with at TC. If he has just limited exchanges with the other NFL established LBers (ie: "nice play" or "good job" exchanges) but spends most of his time alone or talking to rookies or DL guys or secondary guys, then that says he is not long for the Patriots.

How the other NFL established LBers react to and with him will tell you if they think he is legit or a poser. All we have to do is read the exchanges. Long and in depth is a good sign; short exchanges with people walking away from him is a bad sign.

 

[RussFrancis]

Regardless of what Crable has or has not done in the past, his football life as a Patriot is now:

1.) He has to prove he is healthy and can stay healthy. If he can not do that then he is toast.

2.) He has to prove his physical and mental toughness to his position coach, BB and his teammates.

A huge indicator of where he is in the process is by watching who he stands next to and talks with at TC. If he has just limited exchanges with the other NFL established LBers (ie: "nice play" or "good job" exchanges) but spends most of his time alone or talking to rookies or DL guys or secondary guys, then that says he is not long for the Patriots.

How the other NFL established LBers react to and with him will tell you if they think he is legit or a poser. All we have to do is read the exchanges. Long and in depth is a good sign; short exchanges with people walking away from him is a bad sign.

Interesting and insightful.