Realistic roster minima - who's in, who's out for defensive front seven?

[Patriot_in_NY]

Didnt Wright himself sat that the concussion was fully recovered though?
This thread has basically pronounced him retired.
I'm not sure why he would report to camp, never practice and retire after saying he was fully recovered. I think there are large leaps to conclusions going on

News Flash dude........... This is an effing fan messageboard....... It's full of speculation...... every day, all day. Don't take it so personal.

I personally HOPE that he is 100% and I love him as a player. I initially took him at his word too, but the longer he's not in there, the feeling of dread and worry that he's not quite all the way back creeps in.

........ and I hate to break this to you, but a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER that is still having "concussion" setbacks (if indeed he is) that keep him off the field 9 months post-concussion........... certainly make for legitimate speculation that it may have a detrimental impact on his career.

Tell you what.... I'll be the FIRST to jump up with the "praise Jesus's" when he gets back out on the field and starts contributing, until then ---- I'm a little worried.

 

[Ring 6]

News Flash dude........... This is an effing fan messageboard....... It's full of speculation...... every day, all day. Don't take it so personal.

I'm not taking anything personally, apparently you are though.
Yes its speculation, that doesnt mean a weak conclusion is a good one.

I personally HOPE that he is 100% and I love him as a player. I initially took him at his word too, but the longer he's not in there, the feeling of dread and worry that he's not quite all the way back creeps in.

Its been 2 weeks.

........ and I hate to break this to you, but a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER that is still having "concussion" setbacks (if indeed he is) that keep him off the field 9 months post-concussion........... certainly make for legitimate speculation that it may have a detrimental impact on his career.

This is exactly the point. No one has said he has had any concussion setbacks. The only information we have is that he said he is fine.

Tell you what.... I'll be the FIRST to jump up with the "praise Jesus's" when he gets back out on the field and starts contributing, until then ---- I'm a little worried.

Of course there is cause for concern when any player isnt at practice.
That's a big difference from comments like "many of us feel he should have retired" or 'based on the other thread I think he is retiring' or jumping to a conclusion that since he isn't practicing right now, it must be a mysterious recurrance of something he says he is 100% recovered from.

Do you find it odd that he would come back, say he is 100% recovered then retire before participating in a single practice?

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

This is exactly the point. No one has said he has had any concussion setbacks. The only information we have is that he said he is fine.

He hasn't seen the field since a season ending concussion 9 MONTHS AGO. That's a rather long post-concussion recovery. It's a legitimate worry at this point.

We also have some anecdotal information from Mike Reiss (who talks to and deals with Professional players all the time, including Mike Wright prior to his injury). He said, as recently as a few weeks ago, that he didn't seem "quite right".

All that despite what Mike has told us.

Do you find it odd that he would come back, say he is 100% recovered then retire before participating in a single practice?

Not at all. I think that there is enough history of players out there that have pronounced themselves "100%" recovered from a injury, only to find that when they actually return to the field........ they just aren't the same player. I hope that's not the case here. Why would he retire before a single practice? who ever said that?

Besides..... We're pretty deep on the D-line...... why rush him back.... We're talking a major injury, to his brain no less, so be cautious as you need to be. I think we are. I also don't thing we can expect much out of him this year.

That my opinion...... I'm sorry you don't share it.

 

[Ring 6]

He hasn't seen the field since a season ending concussion 9 MONTHS AGO. That's a rather long post-concussion recovery. It's a legitimate worry at this point.

Which part of he said he is 100% recovered from the concussion do you fail to understand?

We also have some anecdotal information from Mike Reiss (who talks to and deals with Professional players all the time, including Mike Wright prior to his injury). He said, as recently as a few weeks ago, that he didn't seem "quite right".

Oh well Mike Reiss saying something didnt sound right is certainly better information that Mike Wright saying he is fine.

All that despite what Mike has told us.

So your opinion is based upon the belief that Wright lied, due to Mike Reiss saying something didnt sound right?

Not at all. I think that there is enough history of players out there that have pronounced themselves "100%" recovered from a injury, only to find that when they actually return to the field........ they just aren't the same player. I hope that's not the case here. Why would he retire before a single practice? who ever said that?

He hasn't returned to the field.
The parts of the thread I was responding to were people saying they are chalking Wright up to retired.

Besides..... We're pretty deep on the D-line...... why rush him back.... We're talking a major injury, to his brain no less, so be cautious as you need to be. I think we are. I also don't thing we can expect much out of him this year.

We aren't going to base someone's health decisions on the depth we have at a position, especially if it is a brain inury.
The entire point here is that we do not know what his injury is. Perhaps he pulled a groin muscle and is getting treatment.
We do know he said his head injury is not an issue.
I think its a safer speculation that he told the truth and has some other type of injury than that he lied, came to camp for some unknown reason and is going to retire.

That my opinion...... I'm sorry you don't share it.

Its not really an opinion its just a wild guess that requires jumping to conclusion without fact to support.
How could I share it?

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Wright is not mentioned among the group that is PUP-eligible like Faulk, Brace, Deadrick. I assume he participated in at least one practice. Question BB is asking himself is how fragile is Wright. Can he expect him to hold up through a tough season. Unfortunately for Wright, this assessment is made acute this year because of the free agent talents that BB has amassed on the DL. So, does cutting someone more durable for a "fragile" Wright means loosing that someone to another team, BB is likely to put Wright on IR or waive him with an injury settlement.

As to why Wright returned. Why wouldn't he want to test himself. Besides he has a contract that pays him well which the Pats will honor whether he is on IR or waived with an injury settlement.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Deciding who to keep for the Pats is especially excruciating this year given the depth of talent on this field.

IF Lee Smith doesn't stick as the 4th tight end, this may be the year, no one drafted in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounds of the 2011 draft make the Pats squad. Merkell Carter and Williams are nowhere in the final squad conversation today as best one gathers. Which also shows why BB is prone to dealing his 5th round and above picks for veterans like #85 and Haynesworth.

Here's hoping Bb can turn some of his "surplus" into 2012 draft picks -- even high round ones.

 

[drew4008]

After anyone says that Andre Carter is not a lock, I assume the right to not take their opinion seriously.

Are you serious? After one preseason game?

 

[JackBauer]

After anyone says that Andre Carter is not a lock, I assume the right to not take their opinion seriously.

I would say the same thing about Cunningham. I mean, seriously?

 

[Sciz]

Are you serious? After one preseason game?

No, after 10 seasons in the NFL. No way in hell he loses his spot to Eric Moore.

 

[Fencer]

Hasn't Wright said he is fully recovered from the concussions?

Concussions are almost the last area where I'd take a guy's word for it.

 

[Fencer]

Am I the only one who wants to see Cunningham be the odd man out? I mean, obviously if he shows something big and promising, then the potential would be worth keeping him... but the guy hasn't shown nearly enough promise, especially this year.

If we're basing it purely on how they look right now, Cunningham doesn't deserve a spot on this team... I think most can agree on that.

If it's ALL late-career vets, many on one-year contracts, we could wind up as we did with the WRs circa 2007 and beyond.

That was by no means all bad, of course ...

 

[Fencer]

Here's hoping Bb can turn some of his "surplus" into 2012 draft picks -- even high round ones.

If your point is that we shouldn't get too excited about trading surplus players for late picks, you're right.

Who's the biggest late-pick contributor that was more recently drafted than Cassell? Deaderick?

 

[Fencer]

Guys, please don't insult each other over whether or not somebody is called a "lock". NOBODY is a lock; they're all "near-lock"s at best.

 

[nnmnmmnn]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

I'm not sure why Anderson would be a lock yet.
My guess is that when the real bullets start flying we will see a DL that has 3 bigs and one DE/OLB type.

Maybe not quite a lock, but people have him penciled in because their guess lines up more with what we've seen so far this year. If you are correct in your prediction that it will be more hybrid 3-4/4-3 than the more common opinion that there has been a drastic shift, then yeah, he's not a lock. I would have to think that if it plays out that way, it's Moore or Anderson. I don't think I've seen enough to put one over the other at this point.

If we do see a shift in the D, to 3 bigs, as you say, do you think Anderson is first out?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

Maybe not quite a lock, but people have him penciled in because their guess lines up more with what we've seen so far this year. If you are correct in your prediction that it will be more hybrid 3-4/4-3 than the more common opinion that there has been a drastic shift, then yeah, he's not a lock. I would have to think that if it plays out that way, it's Moore or Anderson. I don't think I've seen enough to put one over the other at this point.

If we do see a shift in the D, to 3 bigs, as you say, do you think Anderson is first out?

I agree with you that it would be Moore or Anderson in that event, and I think Moore is a more complete player. Its certainly possible we could keep 4 but its tight.
PS: I do really like the idea of Anderson playing in sub, and being limited to obvious passing down sub, like 3rd and 4 or more. Thats his best strength, we hide his weakness, and it gets him maybe 10 to 15 snaps a game. That means he is fresh in the 4th quarter and fresh in January/February, the times we need passrush the most/

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

Maybe not quite a lock, but people have him penciled in because their guess lines up more with what we've seen so far this year. If you are correct in your prediction that it will be more hybrid 3-4/4-3 than the more common opinion that there has been a drastic shift, then yeah, he's not a lock. I would have to think that if it plays out that way, it's Moore or Anderson. I don't think I've seen enough to put one over the other at this point.

If we do see a shift in the D, to 3 bigs, as you say, do you think Anderson is first out?

Can you envision BB with 2 260lb DEs in the base?
Essentially you are taking the 34 alignment and removing one of the 3 DL to add a 5th LB. Its more like a 25.
I would think we would have a very hard time stopping the run, esp off tackle and to the boundary.

 

[Ring 6]

Deciding who to keep for the Pats is especially excruciating this year given the depth of talent on this field.

IF Lee Smith doesn't stick as the 4th tight end, this may be the year, no one drafted in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounds of the 2011 draft make the Pats squad. Merkell Carter and Williams are nowhere in the final squad conversation today as best one gathers. Which also shows why BB is prone to dealing his 5th round and above picks for veterans like #85 and Haynesworth.

Here's hoping Bb can turn some of his "surplus" into 2012 draft picks -- even high round ones.

Smith is going to stick as the 3rd TE

 

[patsfan13]

I think this is the most interesting part of the roster to watch over the next couple of weeks. Originally, I had 15. I think the depth we have has made me raise it to 16. Won't be shocked if we go to 17. My 16.

DT - Wilfork, Haynesworth, G. Warren, M. Pryor and K. Love
DE - A Carter, J. Cunningham, S. Ellis, M. Anderson and E. Moore
LB(6) - J. Mayo, G. Guyton, D. Fletcher, B. Spikes, R. Ninkovich and the last spot down to T.White/Koutouvides.

Don't know what to make of the guys who aren't playing. But, the expression you can't make the club from the tub is probably going to apply here. We have good not great players whom you can't let go just because you're hoping someone else gets healthy. That's why I didn't put R. Brace, M. Wright and B. Deaderick on my roster. Hope we can put them on the PUP in case we have some injuries and we'll already have and in-house replacement for 6 weeks. Darryl Richard is the guy I'd hate to cut. Maybe he beats out K. Love. Doubt he makes it thru waivers to practice squad. Problem with keeping dl is that they don't help on special teams.

The Wild Card is the Health of M Wright, 16 is the right number IMO, Agree with your 16. I add Morris as the 5th RB and leave Faulk on PUP, Then 9 db's.
Wonder if they IR M Wright.

Reviewing the game Butler had a very good game at TB IMO. I give him the edge over Wilhite.

 

[nnmnmmnn]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

I'm not sure why Anderson would be a lock yet.
My guess is that when the real bullets start flying we will see a DL that has 3 bigs and one DE/OLB type.
We have been playing 2 DE/OLB types so far, but my instinct is that this is a preseason thing to get looks at those guys because the big DEs can rotate in the DT spots. Then in sub we use 2 DE/OLB types, which appears to include Ninkovich.

So, we would have something like this:

Big DE Ellis (btw I can imagine why he would be on the roster if we planned on using 2 260lb DEs in the base) Wright if he's a go, Pryor, Richard, Deaderick. i execpt 2 plus a guy who can also play DT to make the team.

DT Wilfork, Haynesworth, Brace, Warren, Pryor, Richard, Deaderick, Love, Weston
I expect 5 here, including one who is also BIG DE (ie Pryor, Richard, Deaderick)

Weak DE Carter, Cunningham, Moore, Anderson, (Ninkovich in the mix on sub packages)

I don't know if there necessarily has to be 4 guys kept at this spot.

That gives us 2,5,3 which is 10 DLs, which is a lot. 3,5,4 seems like there may not be enough room, because we need spots for Mayo, Spikes, Ninkovich, Fletcher, Guyton and one more. We need 6 guys to have enough depth at 3 LB positions.

Can you envision BB with 2 260lb DEs in the base?
Essentially you are taking the 34 alignment and removing one of the 3 DL to add a 5th LB. Its more like a 25.
I would think we would have a very hard time stopping the run, esp off tackle and to the boundary.

I can certainly envision it. This is what we've seen in camp and preseason. I've been quite happy with the change from last year.

Could you explain what you mean by 2-5, and how it differs from 4-3 (or over/under)? Especially as it pertains to one/two gap? Thanks.

 

[patsfan13]

Smith is going to stick as the 3rd TE

Yeatman has played better in the games thus far, he may beat out Lee as the #3 TE.