Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the ledge

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

Here's a sampling Pass attempts vs run....Team has NEVER had with Brady at helm a 60-40 ratio, including the insane 2007 year, and thru 2nd and 3rd SB year

2002: 59.5% Pass, 39.5% run
2003: 53% Pass, 47% run
2004: 48% Pass, 51% run
2005: 56% Pass, 44% run
2006: 51% Pass, 49% run
2007: 57% Pass, 43% run
2008: 51% Pass, 49% run (non Brady Year)
2009: 56% Pass, 44% run
2010: 53% Pass, 47% run
2011: 65% Pass, 35% run (3 games into season)

This lunacy in 2011 is completely on the coaching staff especially playing with leads establish a ground game for ball control.

BOB is going to get Brady killed with hits or injured at this rate

You play to your strengths. How can you commit to the run when you have one of the best offenses of all-time? Maybe it's time to change the plan when the weather gets colder. Until then, I'll play the odds and let Brady air it out against anyone. It usually works.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I haven't read the bulk of this thread. I'll just say the tone and tenor of so many posts over the weekend is rather absurd.

When the team loses a game in such a brutally painful manner, you'd think this forum would serve as a haven for all types of Patriot fans to come and wallow in their misery, free from the kind of talk that would bring them down further. Instead, I feel like this place is overrun with bandwagon fans, fans who care more about how we win then if we win, and fans who actively root against certain players. Everybody has an agenda.

It's almost as if there is a faction of "fans" on this board who want to see Belichick, Brady, McCourty, whoever it is, fail and they take some solace out of that for whatever unknown reason.

That said, yes, the game Sunday was ugly.

The bottom line is, the offense needs to bail this defense out until proven otherwise, and it did not on Sunday. This has been the dynamic for our team since the AFCCG in 2006, and it's the dynamic for many teams across the league. I had hoped the personnel moves in the offseason led to us having an elite defense - a nearly-extinct thing in the NFL these days - but at the moment, it does not appear to be the case.

We'll have to settle for a defense that makes up for the yardage it gives up by making big plays - and so far, the 2011 defense has done that on several occasions.

 

[Aldogg]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Good post Ian. I agree with a lot of what you said, but there are some things I wish we would do. One is run the ball a little more, try to add some balance. I know we drafted two backs, one who hasn't seen the field in Vereen, but Ridley honestly I think deserves a lot more carries than he is getting. BJGE to me is serviceable at best, I know he had 1 K yards last year and his ball security is top notch, but Ridley in his few carries showed a lot more burst and explosiveness, which is something that can open up the passing game if he can rattle off big runs.

Two, where are the safeties? While our corners are not playing great right now, but it seems like every play we are just playing straight man up bump and run coverage, which I think in this league there are very few corners who can play that style and with some of the WRs out there, big and fast guys like Marshall and Jackson, I see very little over the top safety support.

Its not the end of the world right now. Even our SB winning years we had some awful losses, like 31-0 to this same Bills franchise in 2003. I think losing out on workouts and OTAs are showing their effect on this team, as I think if we had a full offseason program Ocho, McCourty and others would be a lot better off than they are.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

This thread needs more Brady

Brady Back and Forth - YouTube


For those who haven't seen this, you're welcome :rocker:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Wiggins was on 98.5 today and he gave his perspective as a former Brady target and BB coached player.

He said the picks were not on Brady. When the ball hits a WR in the hands he's expected catch it (Woodhead), the helmet deflection was a fluke and if anything deflections are on the line for allowing guys to get raise up or get a paw up, Ocho exhibited a classic lackluster level of focus/determination in running that route that allowed the DB to undercut him, and even Gronk's route running was partly to blame as he drifted on that route compared to the same route run earlier that resulted in a TD and that drift allowed the DB to have a play on the ball. Brady should have seen that, so he split the blame 25/75.

He also added his thoughts on what is wrong with this defense. He thinks Bill can't coach up these guys to the level he could some of his former teams because they lack the pure football instincts/intellect that his previous generation of players had. Even though some of them may have sufficient or even superior talent. Consequently things are pretty vanilla. Said the same is true on the coaching staff, guys don't have the experience or level of football intellect to coach/teach really complex schemes to guys for whom it doesn't come all that instinctively...

 

[Guts]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Agreed on all the subjects covered. What I find interesting is the only games we have lost after the browns gameast year is when Aaron Hernandez has been out. I think he played against the jets in playoffs but was coming of the hip injury, I think he is the Xfactor of the offense

 

[robbomango]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I joined this site the beginning of this year to learn a bit more about the game and root for the team. Everyone reacts differently following a loss and different ways to different types of losses.

Maybe there should be an "irrational thoughts" thread following losses, I'm sure even BB would have a lot of posts on it. After 24-48 hrs hopefully people come back to reality.

Nice thread though, a lot of good points and suggestions. Go Pats!!!

 

[Patriot to the Core]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I admit I have been bashing Ocho's name a lot on here but now that I have it out my system, I will get behind him again and will support him and any other player that put's on the Pats jersey. :rocker:

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

You play to your strengths. How can you commit to the run when you have one of the best offenses of all-time? Maybe it's time to change the plan when the weather gets colder. Until then, I'll play the odds and let Brady air it out against anyone. It usually works.

Do you even think before writing ? So if you have one of the best OFFENSES of ALL TIME (don't know how this is the best offense of all time in 2011, but ok let me even give that claim to you), your're not supposed to RUN the ball ?

Yea, I guess Marshall Faulk should have been kicked to curb in the Rams offense, yea those colts under Manning never commit to run with James and Addai, or those Cowboys with someone name Emmitt Smith despite having all PRO WR's

Keep airing it out and keep watching the failures. Same story since 2005.

 

[Marqui]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

You play to your strengths. How can you commit to the run when you have one of the best offenses of all-time? Maybe it's time to change the plan when the weather gets colder. Until then, I'll play the odds and let Brady air it out against anyone. It usually works.

It also usually means failure in the playoffs.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Great thread, Ian.

It was a bad game for the Pats at a number of levels, but it is one game. I expect I am not alone in avoiding the board after a loss with the borderline hysterics of posters crying out how lousy a team the Pats have and who needs to be fired as a result of the loss. We need not do a thread for irrational thoughts as those posts seem to pervade the threads for a day or two. Your thread need not be all sunny thoughts, consistent with your OP, but this would be a nice discussion to visit after a game. I would, however, recommend the mods watch the thread closely as non-rational posts seem to gravitate toward rational discussion and quickly derail those discussions.

With reference to your post on the defensive line, I would swear I saw Andre Carter, all 258 pounds of him, in as a 3-4 defensive end. I also recall the same thing in the preseason. While he is athletic, I wouldn't expect that he is built to line up on a 310 pound offensive lineman with any success. I also thought he was on the side that Buffalo was finding success running the ball. If I was not hallucinating on that configuration, it would seem to be a bit of a head scratcher in terms of probable success. Maybe he was the best option given the number of DLs, but practicing the same formation in preseason suggests it was part of a plan.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I wish more would jump off the ledge and move, these 11 page threads are tiring..

OTOH agree completely, no need to press the panic button yet.

I did notice that BJGE was more hesitant than usual..

 

[ralmat55]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

I would just like to see less emphasis on the spread offense. This is just an observation, but since the Pats went heavily to the spread in the 07 season, the offense seems to decline in effectiveness as the game progresses. It seems teams get less confused by it as the game goes on. Mixing in more pro sets with runs and play-action passing early in the game would save some of the spread looks for later in the game when they might be needed.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Bedard on McCourty:

There were seven breakdowns in pass-coverage fundamentals, with second-year cornerback Devin McCourty leading the way with five and cornerback Leigh Bodden contributing two.

Patriots didn’t have things covered in the secondary - The Boston Globe

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

I hear you, but as I posted Gronk would have scored if Brady hadn't underthrew it. It was the only real bad play he made out of the three picks.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. The pass to Ocho that was
intercepted should not have been thrown. Brady was pressing for some
reason (put the game away quickly?) and with the exception of Welker and
Gronk, none of his current receivers have a great affinity for getting open.
My point is that Brady treating Ocho/Branch/etc like Welker & Gronk is
foolhardy and leads to problems like we witnessed on Sunday.

And while you say the Gronk interception was the only real bad play should I
assume that the others were just regular bad plays because I kind of
consider all interceptions real bad plays.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Solid and valid post Ian and I was definitely someone who was staring over the edge after that game, but I still can't accept this defense as currently constituted. It's been a recurring theme for the past three years with the same blaring weaknesses.

 

[NHPATSFAN11]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply

How did Ridley look? I had to go to work before halftime. His stats look good on paper.

Am I the only one who is waiting anxiously for Ridley to get more carries?!!

I have nothing against Law Firm, he's a consistent and reliable RB but I think we can agree, he'll never be great. I feel very differently about Ridley. The way he explodes through the line and always manages to break free of the first tackler gives me the feeling that he's going to be something special. He doesnt have elite speed but I would definitely say he has elite acceleration. He was doing fine running the ball and killing clock until Brady threw that uneccesary pass to to Gronk that was intercepted.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

Bedard on McCourty:



Patriots didn’t have things covered in the secondary - The Boston Globe

That's reassuring, no?

The most frustrating part of Bedard's piece for me:

Like the Jets in the playoffs, the Bills dared the Patriots to run with six defensive backs on the field nearly every down (Scott, a safety, played nickel linebacker) and they decided not to until the second half, when 15 of the 26 carries came.

Inexcusable.

 

[D-Money]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

All i keep hearing is that its one game.This defense is soft!I have seen this before the last couple of years.The defense is soft and always gets manhandled.McCourty has been a huge dissapointment through 3 games.Bodden sucks as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Rational Thoughts - Only like minded people need apply, others: come in off the l

That's reassuring, no?

Well, it is reassuring in some ways. If we buy Bedard's analysis, we're seeing that it's problems that can be fixed in the case of McCourty.

They may be screwed at safety, though.

The most frustrating part of Bedard's piece for me:



Inexcusable.

I have 2 theories on this, but one will bring down the wrath of the homers, so I'll keep it to myself for now.

The other is that this team gets rolling with the offense in passing mode and BOB/BB don't want to slow down the gravy train both because they want the points and because they don't trust the defense, so they figure that they'll keep going until the opponent proves they can stop it repeatedly.