Predictions for Bucs record and Brady's stats 2022

[BB8XSBW]

The other thread got shutdown so moving the discussion here...

I have to be honest. It's one thing to be posting in the main forum of a 6x SB champion dynasty, but posting in the forum of a 2x SB franchise feels dirty. Royalty doesn't tend to grace the peasantry with its presence, but I will make an exception.

You must be the world's greatest athlete... NFL quarterback and pound for pound the best boxer on the planet.

I've already proven that you don't need to be the greatest football player to receive MVP votes as a joke with the Carson Wentz example. The same applies to boxing, when you consider the following:

-Non-boxer and subpar MMA fighter Artem Lobov beat former world champion Paulie Malignaggi in a bareknuckle boxing match
-MMA fighter Anderson Silva defeated former world champion Julio Cesar Chavez Jr in a one sided beat down
-Logan Paul defeated Floyd Mayweather, one of the greatest boxers of all-time
-Jake Paul has become the best boxer on the planet from a career at Disney and YouTube.

All of these things happened, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that I couldn't beat Canelo in a boxing match.

I'm not following your convoluted criteria for legitimizing rings. Either you're the head coach or you're an assistant of some sort. Belichick was an assistant of Parcells. When you consider 'coach and quarterback' accomplishment, you don't think defensive coordinator and quarterback, obviously. It's a head coach and starting quarterback record.

It's pretty simple. Either you're a head coach and GM and have control over the entire team, or you are just a player, and you only impact one side of the ball.

Regarding importance to an entire team, the starting quarterback is significantly more important than any assistant coach. Belichick has 2 rings as an assistant to Parcells. Belichick has 6 rings as a head coach with Brady as his quarterback. Brady has 7 rings with two different head coaches.

Rings are a team stat. The individual who holds the position of coach/GM oversees the entire team, therefore, all the credit goes to them. You, however, want to erroneously attribute rings to a single player, who has no impact on two entire units on the team, nor is he responsible for constructing an entire roster. If rings determined the true value and talent of a player, then having 7 rings as a QB would be enough to place you above the likes of Joe Montana, Dan Marino, or Peyton Manning on the greatest QB of all-time list. However, as everyone with a brain knows, that is not the case in reality.

Your foolishness is hard to follow. Stats, film, by whatever measure or observation, Brady is easily the most talented, most accomplished, the best, however you choose to phrase it, quarterback in the history of the Patriots franchise.

Most accomplished, absolutely. This is the benefit that comes from playing for the GOAT.

This is what you're saying... from your film study of every Patriots quarterback ever, Brady ranks 5th. A claim like that is death for your credibility.

Now hold on a second. I never said he made it into the top 5. Don't put words in my mouth.

You did... you said Belichick was Brady's "crutch." No other quarterback in the history of the league has more than 4 rings period. Your tie in with Belichick is meaningless because the quarterback who has 6 with him has won 7.

Yes, as a crutch to win more SBs with one team than any other QB in the history of the sport.

But plenty of other QBs have won 1 ring without Belichick, like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, etc. It's possible to do. It's just rare for it to happen multiple times unless you are really special, like Joe Montana, the Manning brothers, Big Ben, and so on.

 

[sb1]

I have to be honest. It's one thing to be posting in the main forum of a 6x SB champion dynasty, but posting in the forum of a 2x SB franchise feels dirty. Royalty doesn't tend to grace the peasantry with its presence, but I will make an exception.



I've already proven that you don't need to be the greatest football player to receive MVP votes as a joke with the Carson Wentz example. The same applies to boxing, when you consider the following:

-Non-boxer and subpar MMA fighter Artem Lobov beat former world champion Paulie Malignaggi in a bareknuckle boxing match
-MMA fighter Anderson Silva defeated former world champion Julio Cesar Chavez Jr in a one sided beat down
-Logan Paul defeated Floyd Mayweather, one of the greatest boxers of all-time
-Jake Paul has become the best boxer on the planet from a career at Disney and YouTube.

All of these things happened, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that I couldn't beat Canelo in a boxing match.



It's pretty simple. Either you're a head coach and GM and have control over the entire team, or you are just a player, and you only impact one side of the ball.



Rings are a team stat. The individual who holds the position of coach/GM oversees the entire team, therefore, all the credit goes to them. You, however, want to erroneously attribute rings to a single player, who has no impact on two entire units on the team, nor is he responsible for constructing an entire roster. If rings determined the true value and talent of a player, then having 7 rings as a QB would be enough to place you above the likes of Joe Montana, Dan Marino, or Peyton Manning on the greatest QB of all-time list. However, as everyone with a brain knows, that is not the case in reality.



Most accomplished, absolutely. This is the benefit that comes from playing for the GOAT.



Now hold on a second. I never said he made it into the top 5. Don't put words in my mouth.



Yes, as a crutch to win more SBs with one team than any other QB in the history of the sport.

But plenty of other QBs have won 1 ring without Belichick, like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, etc. It's possible to do. It's just rare for it to happen multiple times unless you are really special, like Joe Montana, the Manning brothers, Big Ben, and so on.

BB as of right now to me is not the clear GOAT head coach. There are too many arguments against it. Bill can get all the credit for winning rings the moment he puts on pads and a helmet and steps on the field.

Guys like Dilfer always need a lot of help to win that ring. When they don't get that help they don't win anything.

 

[BB8XSBW]

BB as of right now to me is not the clear GOAT head coach. There are too many arguments against it. Bill can get all the credit for winning rings the moment he puts on pads and a helmet and steps on the field.

Belichick holds the most meaningful position in the sport, and has more SB rings than anyone in the history of the league.

Guys like Dilfer always need a lot of help to win that ring. When they don't get that help they don't win anything.

Agreed. QBs always need a lot of help to win a ring. When they don't get that help, they don't win anything, because they can only impact one part of the game.

Nevertheless, as Dilfer and many others have shown, you can still win a ring without the GOAT coach.

 

[sb1]

Belichick holds the most powerful position in the sport, and has more SB rings than anyone in the history of the league.

But you just said rings are a team stat. That's not wrong. Bill has 6 rings thanks to his team as head coach and that's it. Yes he has 2 more as an assistant but that's like crediting Jimmy Garoppolo for having as many rings as John Elway.

Coaches don't win rings, their players do and Bill even acknowledged that. Bill is certainly the most accomplished thanks in no small part to benefiting from the GOAT QB which of course he certainly deserves credit for drafting and helping to develop... but player always gets more credit than coach and that's the way it should be.

Bill as GOAT? He doesn't have the most wins - Shula does. He doesn't have the best regular season record - that's John Madden. Nor is he .900 in the playoffs like Lombardi. Let's see what happens with Josh but his coaching tree is inferior to his peers among the all time greatest. He is not the cultural icon beyond football like Shula and Lombardi are although I'm sure once he retires that will change. He's also never been part of two teams "hall of fames" like Lombardi. Saying Bill is GOAT is not a crazy take but for me there are too many arguments against it right now to say it's a slam dunk unless you count rings as everything then see the last paragraph above

If Bill can rebuild this team quickly and coach another Super Bowl with Mac Jones as his QB then in my book that's when I think he starts to take a step forward from his peers.

Agreed. QBs always need a lot of help to win a ring. When they don't get that help, they don't win anything, because they can only impact one part of the game.

Nevertheless, as Dilfer and many others have shown, you can still win a ring without the GOAT coach.

Brady did a lot more to contribute to winning that ring without Bill than Dilfer or Johnson did for their team.

 

[BB8XSBW]

But you just said rings are a team stat. That's not wrong. Bill has 6 rings thanks to his team as head coach and that's it. Yes he has 2 more as an assistant but that's like crediting Jimmy Garoppolo for having as many rings as John Elway.

They are a team stat. Who assembles the team and oversees all of it?

Coaches don't win rings, their players do and Bill even acknowledged that. Bill is certainly the most accomplished thanks in no small part to benefiting from the GOAT QB which of course he certainly deserves credit for drafting and helping to develop... but player always gets more credit than coach and that's the way it should be.

The players collectively, yes. Who is responsible for managing the roster and coaching all of these players collectively?

Individuals who are coaches/GM of a team impact the entire franchise. Players individually impact one small part of the game.

Brady did a lot more to contribute to winning that ring without Bill than Dilfer or Johnson did for their team.

All of these QBs have 1 ring without the GOAT coach. Nothing wrong with that. Being solid and dependable is enough to net you a ring without the GOAT coach.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I love Bill Belichick. Glad he coaches the Pats but as a head coach he doesn't have any rings without a certain quarterback.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I love Bill Belichick. Glad he coaches the Pats but as a head coach he doesn't have any rings without a certain quarterback.

LOL, he could have won with a lot of QBs (Manning, Brees, etc)...the guy he happened to have was a 6th rounder no one wanted and he proceeded to convert him into the most accomplished QB in NFL history. Then said QB took what he learned from Belichick along with Gronk, Fournette, and Brown and won a SB on another team. Bill could have had a chance with another pretty good QB earlier but Brady cried to Kraft and got Jimmy G shipped out of town.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Coaches don't win rings, their players do and Bill even acknowledged that. Bill is certainly the most accomplished thanks in no small part to benefiting from the GOAT QB which of course he certainly deserves credit for drafting and helping to develop... but player always gets more credit than coach and that's the way it should be.

Then why have coaches? BB's coaching led to at least 4 rings for his players, including SB 49 when his coaching of Butler allowed for the greatest play in NFL history to happen.

Bill as GOAT? He doesn't have the most wins - Shula does. He doesn't have the best regular season record - that's John Madden. Nor is he .900 in the playoffs like Lombardi. Let's see what happens with Josh but his coaching tree is inferior to his peers among the all time greatest. He is not the cultural icon beyond football like Shula and Lombardi are although I'm sure once he retires that will change. He's also never been part of two teams "hall of fames" like Lombardi. Saying Bill is GOAT is not a crazy take but for me there are too many arguments against it right now to say it's a slam dunk unless you count rings as everything then see the last paragraph above

Those other coaches have far fewer rings than Belichick. Heck, Belichick as a defensive coordinator has as many rings as Shula as HC. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Guts]

LOL, he could have won with a lot of QBs (Manning, Brees, etc)...the guy he happened to have was a 6th rounder no one wanted and he proceeded to convert him into the most accomplished QB in NFL history. Then said QB took what he learned from Belichick along with Gronk, Fournette, and Brown and won a SB on another team. Bill could have had a chance with another pretty good QB earlier but Brady cried to Kraft and got Jimmy G shipped out of town.

We don't win 51 or 53 with Jimmy G as the QB.

 

[gobesmug]

I love Bill Belichick. Glad he coaches the Pats but as a head coach he doesn't have any rings without a certain quarterback.

Outside of Brady, Bill has been the HC of 4 other QBs whom had all been to the ProBowl including 1 former MVP.

Vinnie Testeverde 2x Probowl
Drew Bledsoe 4x Probowl
$Cam 4 probowl 1 MVP
Mac Jones 1 Probowl

You would think given that Talent Bill would have won multiple superbowls. Instead only 2 playoff appearances, 1 win and 2 embarrassingly bad losses.

I still love Bill and all he did when he had Brady, but its kind of laughable how bad he has been without Brady.

 

[sb1]

Then why have coaches? BB's coaching led to at least 4 rings for his players, including SB 49 when his coaching of Butler allowed for the greatest play in NFL history to happen.



Those other coaches have far fewer rings than Belichick. Heck, Belichick as a defensive coordinator has as many rings as Shula as HC. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you're talking about.

In other words the whole argument for Bill as GOAT coach comes down to rings. Which are a team stat and which players win not coaches. Got it

 

[PatsWSB47]

Outside of Brady, Bill has been the HC of 4 other QBs whom had all been to the ProBowl including 1 former MVP.

Vinnie Testeverde 2x Probowl
Drew Bledsoe 4x Probowl
$Cam 4 probowl 1 MVP
Mac Jones 1 Probowl

You would think given that Talent Bill would have won multiple superbowls. Instead only 2 playoff appearances, 1 win and 2 embarrassingly bad losses.

I still love Bill and all he did when he had Brady, but its kind of laughable how bad he has been without Brady.

Bernie Kosar also made the pro bowl but before Belichick coached him.

 

[crawhammer]

It's pretty simple. Either you're a head coach and GM and have control over the entire team, or you are just a player, and you only impact one side of the ball.

Wrong. A quarterback like Brady takes a lot of pressure off his defense... time of possession, field position, and obviously he's usually staking them to a comfortable margin of points. He also less often will be putting his defense in a bad spot with turnovers.

You say "just a player" like they're all equals. There are degrees of importance... quarterback being the most important position on a team. You also can measure a player's worth through data. For example, take Drew Bledsoe, who you supposedly rank higher than Brady, in 6 postseason starts he has 5 TDs and 12 INTs to go along with a 54.9 quarterback rating. In other words he was worthless in the postseason. Brady, on the other hand, who you supposedly rank 5th (or lower) in franchise history, produced a game-winning drive in all 6 Super Bowls that the Patriots have won in their 61 year existence. In other words Brady was invaluable to the Patriots success. Brady's the most impactful individual in the history of the NFL.

Rings are a team stat. The individual who holds the position of coach/GM oversees the entire team, therefore, all the credit goes to them. You, however, want to erroneously attribute rings to a single player, who has no impact on two entire units on the team, nor is he responsible for constructing an entire roster. If rings determined the true value and talent of a player, then having 7 rings as a QB would be enough to place you above the likes of Joe Montana, Dan Marino, or Peyton Manning on the greatest QB of all-time list. However, as everyone with a brain knows, that is not the case in reality.

"Two entire units on the team"?... so you're saying special teams are as important as offense and defense? Joke.

Now you're going after Brady's standing among all-time quarterbacks? Dan Marino... 0 rings. Take a look at his postseason mediocrity. Peyton Manning was a choker who came up small in the biggest games. 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 TDs and 5 INTs... luckily for him his teams were able to carry him on two occasions. Montana is at least a respectable comparison, but still Brady's career towers over him too. You could combine the careers of Montana and Young... Brady's single career is still better.

I wouldn't be bragging about Belichick's roster construction either. Let's start with letting the greatest player in league history, a.k.a. Belichick's crutch, walk out the door for nothing when he had elite play let in him. Then we can talk about his long history of not paying premium players and poor drafts. Brady covered for a lot of holes in the rosters, particularly in the second half of the Patriots dynasty.

Yes, as a crutch to win more SBs with one team than any other QB in the history of the sport.

But plenty of other QBs have won 1 ring without Belichick, like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, etc. It's possible to do. It's just rare for it to happen multiple times unless you are really special, like Joe Montana, the Manning brothers, Big Ben, and so on.

If Belichick is the key ingredient to success, and the quarterback is equivalent to a gunner on ST, then why is it that Belichick has 0 rings from 9 seasons without Brady? It's just a coincidence that Belichick can't even win a division without Brady... 0-9 without him but 17 in 18 seasons with him. Explain that. Also explain how Brady managed to win a Super Bowl in his very first try without Belichick. And to top it all off he won a division and had an MVP caliber season the next.

 

[BB8XSBW]

Wrong. A quarterback like Brady takes a lot of pressure off his defense... time of possession, field position, and obviously he's usually staking them to a comfortable margin of points. He also less often will be putting his defense in a bad spot with turnovers.

You say "just a player" like they're all equals. There are degrees of importance... quarterback being the most important position on a team. You also can measure a player's worth through data. For example, take Drew Bledsoe, who you supposedly rank higher than Brady, in 6 postseason starts he has 5 TDs and 12 INTs to go along with a 54.9 quarterback rating. In other words he was worthless in the postseason. Brady, on the other hand, who you supposedly rank 5th (or lower) in franchise history, produced a game-winning drive in all 6 Super Bowls that the Patriots have won in their 61 year existence. In other words Brady was invaluable to the Patriots success. Brady's the most impactful individual in the history of the NFL.

A great defense and/or ST takes pressure off of an offense by giving them advantageous field position, as well as scoring points for the team.

We can do this all day. This will never erase the fact that Bill Belichick holds the most meaningful positions in the sport and has more SB rings than anyone in the history of the league. All of these bums with fewer than 8 rings need to catch up. We don't respect losers with fewer than 8 rings here in champ city.

Now you're going after Brady's standing among all-time quarterbacks? Dan Marino... 0 rings. Take a look at his postseason mediocrity. Peyton Manning was a choker who came up small in the biggest games. 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 TDs and 5 INTs... luckily for him his teams were able to carry him on two occasions. Montana is at least a respectable comparison, but still Brady's career towers over him too. You could combine the careers of Montana and Young... Brady's single career is still better.

Talent has nothing to do with rings, regardless of how much you cry and stomp your feet. Terry Bradshaw, although a very good QB, is still not better than Dan Marino or Aaron Rodgers.

Also, hilarious that QBs you don't personally like were carried by their teams, but QBs you like did it all themselves. You continue to demolish your own argument.

Having a better career doesn't mean you are a better QB. It just means you had the best coach/GM of all-time overseeing the entire team.

I wouldn't be bragging about Belichick's roster construction either. Let's start with letting the greatest player in league history, a.k.a. Belichick's crutch, walk out the door for nothing when he had elite play let in him. Then we can talk about his long history of not paying premium players and poor drafts. Brady covered for a lot of holes in the rosters, particularly in the second half of the Patriots dynasty.

Belichick's roster construction and coaching, which was responsible for drafting and developing your favorite player of all-time, has been responsible for 6 SBs rings for us.

Now I get that you guys over here in this thread are jealous of our Lombardi trophies, as your Bucs team has only managed a hilariously paltry 2 trophies, but there's no need to become hysterical and post nonsense.

If Belichick is the key ingredient to success, and the quarterback is equivalent to a gunner on ST, then why is it that Belichick has 0 rings from 9 seasons without Brady? It's just a coincidence that Belichick can't even win a division without Brady... 0-9 without him but 17 in 18 seasons with him. Explain that. Also explain how Brady managed to win a Super Bowl in his very first try without Belichick. And to top it all off he won a division and had an MVP caliber season the next.

Bill Belichick has won 8 SB rings. Literally no player or coach in the history of this sport has more.

If you have fewer than 8 rings, I don't value you as a champion. You are irrelevant to me.

Sorry, friend. We have much higher standards over here in champ city than you do in Tampa.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Wrong. A quarterback like Brady takes a lot of pressure off his defense... time of possession, field position, and obviously he's usually staking them to a comfortable margin of points. He also less often will be putting his defense in a bad spot with turnovers.

You say "just a player" like they're all equals. There are degrees of importance... quarterback being the most important position on a team. You also can measure a player's worth through data. For example, take Drew Bledsoe, who you supposedly rank higher than Brady, in 6 postseason starts he has 5 TDs and 12 INTs to go along with a 54.9 quarterback rating. In other words he was worthless in the postseason. Brady, on the other hand, who you supposedly rank 5th (or lower) in franchise history, produced a game-winning drive in all 6 Super Bowls that the Patriots have won in their 61 year existence. In other words Brady was invaluable to the Patriots success. Brady's the most impactful individual in the history of the NFL.


"Two entire units on the team"?... so you're saying special teams are as important as offense and defense? Joke.

Now you're going after Brady's standing among all-time quarterbacks? Dan Marino... 0 rings. Take a look at his postseason mediocrity. Peyton Manning was a choker who came up small in the biggest games. 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 TDs and 5 INTs... luckily for him his teams were able to carry him on two occasions. Montana is at least a respectable comparison, but still Brady's career towers over him too. You could combine the careers of Montana and Young... Brady's single career is still better.

I wouldn't be bragging about Belichick's roster construction either. Let's start with letting the greatest player in league history, a.k.a. Belichick's crutch, walk out the door for nothing when he had elite play let in him. Then we can talk about his long history of not paying premium players and poor drafts. Brady covered for a lot of holes in the rosters, particularly in the second half of the Patriots dynasty.


If Belichick is the key ingredient to success, and the quarterback is equivalent to a gunner on ST, then why is it that Belichick has 0 rings from 9 seasons without Brady? It's just a coincidence that Belichick can't even win a division without Brady... 0-9 without him but 17 in 18 seasons with him. Explain that. Also explain how Brady managed to win a Super Bowl in his very first try without Belichick. And to top it all off he won a division and had an MVP caliber season the next.

We have a new troll....at least a new account opened by an existing one. We're either being catfished or we have someone recruited to join just to troll. I'm not buying this sudden on the scene over the top Brady hater routine. I'm not biting this time. He has nothing useful to contribute. So on to mute he goes. I hope he and his twin brother can keep each other company

 

[BB8XSBW]

We have a new troll....at least a new account opened by an existing one. We're either being catfished or we have someone recruited to join just to troll. I'm not buying this sudden on the scene over the top Brady hater routine. I'm not biting this time. He has nothing useful to contribute. So on to mute he goes. I hope he and his twin brother can keep each other company

I would have never come here. Hell, I did not know this thread even existed. It doesn't feel right for a giant like myself to crush ants. You've got @crawhammer to thank for this, as he tagged me in this thread for some bizarre reason.

 

[Guts]

@MAC10 was the side quest.

@BB8XSBW is the final boss

 

[sb1]

@MAC10 was the side quest.

@BB8XSBW is the final boss

My guess is our new friend is another Stevenson sockpuppet account. Those things show up every now and then.

 

[Boomer B]

What kind of idiot bashes a QB with 7 superbowls because he does not have 9? Just curious?

A special kind of idiot...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I would have never come here. Hell, I did not know this thread even existed. It doesn't feel right for a giant like myself to crush ants. You've got @crawhammer to thank for this, as he tagged me in this thread for some bizarre reason.

Welcome to the Brady forum. This is the place for those fans who are bigger fans of Brady than they are of the New England Patriots. They can easily be outwitted in any argument as I have been doing for the past two years.