Patriots Pregame Thread Pre Game Thread - Pats @ Bills

[RobertWeathers]

They can't do anything now, not without and update on his health. They are in a tremendously difficult spot. They already tentatively announced that games will still be played this weekend, but what else can they do? What if his health turns for the worse or all of a sudden gets better. That's the only reason they can't or haven't come out with a plan.

Agree. If his condition takes a tragic turn there is no way (nor should) Bills/NEP happens.

Even now it's as you say tentative.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

They can't do anything now, not without and update on his health. They are in a tremendously difficult spot. They already tentatively announced that games will still be played this weekend, but what else can they do? What if his health turns for the worse or all of a sudden gets better. That's the only reason they can't or haven't come out with a plan.

This is obviously a tragic situation that needs to be handled with sensitivity and introspection. Whether it was due to the fact that the injury occurred on the last play of the game or it was a different time (2007), there was a different reaction to Kevin Everett's near fatality. Right or wrong the Bills played their next game. I am not sure that spending extra time thinking about the situation is good for the teams psyche. At some point it is in everyone's best interest to get on with life as part of the healing process.

 

[crawhammer]

I think your thought of cancelling games and going with a teams winning % is reasonable since there is precedent for that. Any scenario where teams play other teams not on their schedule is so far fetched it shouldn't even be discussed.

Solution for what? The Bills-Cin game could easily be cancelled and the league could go with winning % (again precedent). The Bills-Pat game has to be played, either this week or next, whatever they decide.

The winning percentage bit doesn't really work. Especially if the Bills-Patriots game is cancelled (which is at least remotely possible). If the Patriots don't play and Miami or Pittsburgh win then they're above .500 and the Patriots are out. If Buffalo doesn't finish both of their remaining games, and KAN beats LVR, then Buffalo would have lost out on their opportunity to keep the #1 seed.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Didn't the NHL have a lot of time to think about this and create this? Not sure the NFL could do this in so little time. It's also seeding that affected...Buffalo, KC and Cincy, all really good teams. Not sure how that would work.

Add an 8th AFC playoff team and it takes care of almost everything. Takes away the biggest advantage of seeding and also takes care of most of the bubble teams who would be affected by the loss of the game.

 

[ashley]

Add an 8th AFC playoff team and it takes care of almost everything. Takes away the biggest advantage of seeding and also takes care of most of the bubble teams who would be affected by the loss of the game.

Do you leave the NFC the way it is then?

Not sure doing this on the AFC side would be fair to Buffalo/KC or Cin, but not sure there are any "right answers" at this time.

 

[crawhammer]

What B.S. YOU started this "discussion" after the Veneclown's eternally contrived, over-the-top Mac bashing was called out. You have the temerity to defend him then proceed with a parsed take along the same lines. This isn't about anyone, least of all myself, getting defensive over legit Mac criticism. It goes way, WAY beyond that and attempting to soft-pedal things or shift the goal posts makes it no less an agenda, a la your STILL unexplained "victory laps" quip. Compatriots of the Tampa Bay ghetto who spend more time gleefully belittling a player than looking for positives -- you two are disingenuous peas in a pod.

If you're "gleefully belittling a player" then how is 'not also looking for positives' disingenuous? Just curious. Otherwise, I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I said before, with regard to the competitive integrity of the league, all games must be completed. But there's a real possibility that's not going to happen. Even if the only game cancelled is the Bills-Bengals game, there are a bunch of consequences (with degrees of "unfairness").

There are differences of degree and differerences in kind.

If you have not taken care of business, lose too many games to get in, and so you're out, we are sifting throught the unlikely teams through the tiebreakers (which, of course, could also be adjusted, or playoffs could be added to give more teams a chance, or whatever)

BUT

It is also fine to say you needed help, and you didn't get it. Too bad it happened this way.

What that does NOT do to a team is eliminate its chance to play a final game of the season (and a meaningful one at that.) That is another degree of "unfair."

This is an unprecedented situation. If Hamlin's condition gets worse (which all of us are hoping against), then Buffalo is not playing this game against the Patriots this weekend.

Who said? You?

Regardless, there is a non-unprecedented way of dealing with such circumstances. You take an L and forfeit. Brett Favrevruh famously played (and played great) after his dad died. You saying Josh Allen is closer to Hamlin than Favrevruh was to his own dad?

Weird as hell circumstances. I get it. That is a good reason for a fan not to be mad that they take the L. That is not a reason not to make them take an L if they forfeit, especially since the impact on the team is less than whether or not they make the playoffs (it does influence HFA and bye.)

So what's the solution from a football standpoint? Because Buffalo registering an L for the game is not happening.

Source?

And the NFL isn't going to just hand a W and a playoff spot to the Patriots while eliminating three other teams (Jaguars also may need the Patriots to lose).

The procedure for a forfeiture is well-established, regardless of the cause of the forfeit.

Again, why can't Buffalo just say they're all broken up about it for another month or so and get the ring for 3 more forfeits, occasioning the league's first "Three Forfeits to Glory" DVD?

 

[crawhammer]

Do you leave the NFC the way it is then?

Not sure doing this on the AFC side would be fair to Buffalo/KC or Cin, but not sure there are any "right answers" at this time.

Good point. The #1 seed in the NFC having the only bye becomes a distinct advantage. Also, I just don't think the NFL is adding another game on the heels of Hamlin's tragically unfortunate situation.

 

[venecol]

The winning percentage bit doesn't really work. Especially if the Bills-Patriots game is cancelled (which is at least remotely possible). If the Patriots don't play and Miami or Pittsburgh win then they're above .500 and the Patriots are out. If Buffalo doesn't finish both of their remaining games, and KAN beats LVR, then Buffalo would have lost out on their opportunity to keep the #1 seed.

The only game that should be considered cancelled is the one that was actually cancelled. All other games should and will be played imo. The only ? is when. I don't see this as an insurmountable problem. There are two extra weeks between now and the SB, so there's some flexibility there.

As far as the Bills and #1 seed goes, I don't think they care. They're good enough to go on the road and beat anyone, as long as their players heads are in the game.

 

[venecol]

If you're "gleefully belittling a player" then how is 'not also looking for positives' disingenuous? Just curious. Otherwise, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Drop it dude, you're not going to change his mind. Fact is we're not in the club. But frankly, I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member.

 

[crawhammer]

There are differences of degree and differerences in kind.

If you have not taken care of business, lose too many games to get in, and so you're out, we are sifting throught the unlikely teams through the tiebreakers (which, of course, could also be adjusted, or playoffs could be added to give more teams a chance, or whatever)

BUT

It is also fine to say you needed help, and you didn't get it. Too bad it happened this way.

What that does NOT do to a team is eliminate its chance to play a final game of the season (and a meaningful one at that.) That is another degree of "unfair."

The only solution that isn't "unfair" in some way, to one or multiple teams, is completing every scheduled game.

Who said? You?

Well, yes. Anytime I'm offering you my opinion.

Regardless, there is a non-unprecedented way of dealing with such circumstances. You take an L and forfeit. Brett Favrevruh famously played (and played great) after his dad died. You saying Josh Allen is closer to Hamlin than Favrevruh was to his own dad?

Weird as hell circumstances. I get it. That is a good reason for a fan not to be mad that they take the L. That is not a reason not to make them take an L if they forfeit, especially since the impact on the team is less than whether or not they make the playoffs (it does influence HFA and bye.)

The Favre situation isn't comparable.

Your point otherwise? Buffalo can withstand an L because they'd still be in the playoffs? One major problem is that L goes down as a W for the Patriots which slams the door shut on MIA, PIT and JAC (if they lose to TEN). That's grossly unfair.

Source?

Me. That's an instance of offering my opinion. I explained why I felt that way.

Again, why can't Buffalo just say they're all broken up about it for another month or so and get the ring for 3 more forfeits, occasioning the league's first "Three Forfeits to Glory" DVD?

Because that's ridiculously absurd and you know it.

 

[Racervx54]

the longer they wait, the more the NFL screws this up

Too late it's already ****ed....

 

[Steve102]

interesting

the patriots again canceled the media/open locker room portions of practice today

I bet it's league wide.

 

[Triumph]

Are you basing this on the angle of the Bills being so highly motivated, or upon the league / refs / public desiring a particular result?

The first would be a reasonable concern, the second would be pretty goofy.

The first being the city of Buffalo uniting around Hamlin and the Bills.The atmosphere will be high voltage electric.

The second angle being Mac Jones.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Not sure how this game will go

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The only solution that isn't "unfair" in some way, to one or multiple teams, is completing every scheduled game.

No, forfeits for every team that did not complete a game is fair, by the NFL's forfeit rules. "But I really wanted to stop playing" is not in those rules. If the league makes allowances, so be it. But playing by the rules is fair--not kind, perhaps, but fair. That's the point of rules.

Well, yes. Anytime I'm offering you my opinion.

Okay, then you said something with no backup. Point taken. All the possibilities are in play, despite you saying they are "not happening." If events follow your opinion, we'll have that conversation based on events rather than bias.

The Favre situation isn't comparable.

Yes it is. I compared it just fine. Answer my question: Is Josh Allen closer to Hamlin than Favre was to his father? (I believe we all learned that his name was Irv, just going by memory.)

Your point otherwise? Buffalo can withstand an L because they'd still be in the playoffs? One major problem is that L goes down as a W for the Patriots which slams the door shut on MIA, PIT and JAC (if they lose to TEN). That's grossly unfair.

Welp, we have a handy piece of literature called the rulebook to buttress my point. If you don't play, you forfeit, and take an L.

That puts it on you. By what wizardry or fiat do you dictate that the rulebook does not apply?

Me. That's an instance of offering my opinion. I explained why I felt that way.


Because that's ridiculously absurd and you know it.

Bollocks. Forfeit and take an L, or play.

I do sympathize and I would much rather the league and the teams involved not be dealing with this. I am fine with extending the season a week, I am fine with accomodating the teams in question.

Hell, just call off all the games this week, call off everything but the Buff-Cin. makeup game the next week, then game on. I am fine with that. In fact, it might also be the single most "fair" accomodation. Nobody is handed a free win or loss.

But no, I am not in for a free W or Tie for Buffalo.

 

[mike_usagisan]

No, forfeits for every team that did not complete a game is fair, by the NFL's forfeit rules. "But I really wanted to stop playing" is not in those rules. If the league makes allowances, so be it. But playing by the rules is fair--not kind, perhaps, but fair. That's the point of rules.

New to Roger's NFL are you?

 

[ashley]

Interesting, but makes sense. Not sure what is going on yet:

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I think the game gets played…and this is the first game in the 30 years I have been a Patriots fan that I will struggle to root AGAINST the opponent l.

Such an odd situation.

 

[crawhammer]

No, forfeits for every team that did not complete a game is fair, by the NFL's forfeit rules. "But I really wanted to stop playing" is not in those rules. If the league makes allowances, so be it. But playing by the rules is fair--not kind, perhaps, but fair. That's the point of rules.

Imposing an L on Buffalo under this circumstance would be unfair. And would irretrievably trash Goodell's reputation.

Okay, then you said something with no backup. Point taken. All the possibilities are in play, despite you saying they are "not happening." If events follow your opinion, we'll have that conversation based on events rather than bias.

I don't think bias is the right word. I was thinking more common sense. Even if Buffalo publicly states "we forfeit the game" and begs for an L, I still don't think Goodell would put his name on that. Not happening.

Yes it is. I compared it just fine. Answer my question: Is Josh Allen closer to Hamlin than Favre was to his father? (I believe we all learned that his name was Irv, just going by memory.)

I don't know anything about either relationship. Brett Favre is a total scumbag so I don't know how he felt about anyone in his family and I'm not making assumptions. Allen looked pretty devastated on the field as they were working on Hamlin. And it's not just about Allen, it's about their entire roster of players and coaches. The situations aren't comparable (which I don't think is really even an opinion but if you want to go there then we can just agree to disagree on this point).

Welp, we have a handy piece of literature called the rulebook to buttress my point. If you don't play, you forfeit, and take an L.

That puts it on you. By what wizardry or fiat do you dictate that the rulebook does not apply?

There's no rule for this particular situation. All the league needs to say is "it's an unprecedented situation" so therefore... Who's going to argue with that? Plus since when is the league worried about just conjuring up some reason for doing whatever they want?

But no, I am not in for a free W or Tie for Buffalo.

Your hyperbolic example was Buffalo being handed the Lombardi because they'll be too distraught to play again this season.