Pre-Game Thread- Bills @ Pats (Thursday Night)

[upstater1]

I don't think BB starting Mac says anything about who he "likes". It's largely down to the fact that Mac is further along his relative developmental timelime, they need to learn what they have in him, and he earned the right to start based on his leadership, work ethic, and time he's invested over the past 14-16+ months.

If Zappe ends up starting next season, does that mean BB flipped from Team Mac to Team Zappe? Does it mean he no longer likes Mac? Caught the Zappe fever? No - it means he thinks starting Zappe is what is best at that point in time, and all of the considerations that go into that. Ditto for Mac starting now.

BB isn't picking the starter based on which faction he sides with in an online messageboard feud; he's coaching a football team.

If Belichick starts Zappe next year, it means Mac Jones is done as a Patriot

That's what it means. You develop QBs by letting them develop. If you're not committed to their development, then they're not the QB for your team.

 

[Zuma]

Mac is the guy "right now" and any fan should hope he progresses as he did the last few weeks and can improve on the good game he put up against the Vikings.

Agree

 

[BelizePats]

I want to see Mac keep on improving. He's played much better the last few games after some pretty shaky play earlier in the year. Bad OL play and poor playcalling were factors in his struggles.

 

[PScottman]

For me the Mac Jones of the last two weeks is the guy that I was expecting/hoping to see in September. Better late than never. Still needs to improve in a lot of areas but for the first time this season he's showing progression from last year, getting the ball downfield and limiting his mistakes. Hopefully it's not a fluke.

The discounting of the multitude of factors that influence a player over time remains a common tool for those that use a single event or occurrence as defining the worth of a single player. Player X has a bad play or bad game - they are unworthy of their being drafted, over the hill, a JAG, a bum, whatever.

It's used because the VAST majority of NFL players don't either play "up" to their draft status or work out as a free agent signee.

So it's really easy to look smart or right frequently because the statistical odds are widely in your favor. So much so that I could probably today say blithely "New England's 2023 1st round draft pick will not produce like a first round pick should." and the likelihood is probably around 70% or more I'll be correct (not even accounting for the subjectivity of what first round production actually is which is a whole other discussion). I could say that for probably 20 of the NFL's teams for next year and still have a greater than 50% chance of being right. The variables are so many, the success odds so few, that even the most dedicated of data scientists would need years to create a more accurate prediction model than what NFL teams can do today.

Many fans don't watch the NFL for enjoyment. Enjoyment and escapism is infantile and simplistic don't you know? It's not nuanced, or evolved, or complex. It doesn't allow for criticism, belittling and other means through which people can demonstrate their superiority. Not only do they know better, but they know better and can explain just how much if these silly NFL types would just listen to them.

Ultimately, there is a ton of things influencing not just Mac Jones, but the entire offense this year and their overall development as a unit and just when one thing seemingly gets at least on a track toward consistency and production, some other part degrades. As a singular aspect of the offense, Jones has trended upward the last few weeks. That's a positive sign that should give fans at least some optimism...but I doubt it will for many.

 

[crawhammer]

I want to see Mac keep on improving. He's played much better the last few games after some pretty shaky play earlier in the year. Bad OL play and poor playcalling were factors in his struggles.

Indy was a scrimmage, 3 points against the Jets, and Minnesota's defense is a sieve. If Mac plays well tonight then I'll be on board with the "improvement."

 

[PScottman]

Indy was a scrimmage, 3 points against the Jets, and Minnesota's defense is a sieve. If Mac plays well tonight then I'll be on board with the "improvement."

Until "Buffalo can't stop the run" or "Buffalo was sick" or....

We've seen this play before. The first act is okay, but the second and third ones tend to become a little one note and repetitive.

 

[crawhammer]

Looks like a calm night, relatively low winds, 35 degrees, no precipitation. Patriots probably will need 30 points for the win.

 

[PScottman]

I don't think the Pats win tonight either frankly. The matchups don't tend to favor them in any one personnel grouping. Secondary injuries are a thing again, Bryant will still be singled out and exploited, and while I am much more confident the current team can stop BUF traditional ground game - the performance against Jackson weighs against their ability to have a personal group to combat both (Tavai/Bentley too slow vs QB and Wilson/McMillan/Peppers too light against traditional RB runs).

I do like no more Daboll in the Pats favor plus the Allen arm injury. Does BB gamble and play a lot of DBs? Guess we'll see.

Progression to me is to not get blown out again. THAT'S what interests me more right now. Are they at least competitive with this BUF team? Do they compete across all personnel groups or is it another bloodbath where every throw sees the CB two steps behind and every Allen run is for massive gains...and finally does their punter actually, well, punt. A one score to 10 pt loss is still a significant improvement over last years ending for me.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't think the Pats win tonight either frankly. The matchups don't tend to favor them in any one personnel grouping. Secondary injuries are a thing again, Bryant will still be singled out and exploited, and while I am much more confident the current team can stop BUF traditional ground game - the performance against Jackson weighs against their ability to have a personal group to combat both (Tavai/Bentley too slow vs QB and Wilson/McMillan/Peppers too light against traditional RB runs).

I do like no more Daboll in the Pats favor plus the Allen arm injury. Does BB gamble and play a lot of DBs? Guess we'll see.

Progression to me is to not get blown out again. THAT'S what interests me more right now. Are they at least competitive with this BUF team? Do they compete across all personnel groups or is it another bloodbath where every throw sees the CB two steps behind and every Allen run is for massive gains...and finally does their punter actually, well, punt. A one score to 10 pt loss is still a significant improvement over last years ending for me.

I think we have an okay shot at winning based upon how Buffalo has played against the same opponents (Jets, Vikes). If we don't win, I want to see another good game from Mac and I would love fewer penalties and stupid mistakes.

 

[PScottman]

I think we have an okay shot at winning based upon how Buffalo has played against the same opponents (Jets, Vikes).

While I agree generically, division opponents tend to just be different from a comparison standpoint. Maybe it's the familiarity with each other? To me, division games seem to be more about the raw talent in most contests.

That said, the "wind" game last year was just weird. The other two games were just naked beatings by BUF. I know there were injuries, but those games simply exposed lopsided matchups over and over across every facet...that weren't in the wind game. It's an anomaly.

Yet another reason I want to see tonight - three instances is a trend...I want the pats to break that trend.

 

[Pats2000]

How many more weeks do we give in order to "work things out" in the Redzone and offense in general. At this point they are what they are. A team that can't score TD's and makes mental mistakes leading to penalties. Diggs and Allen alone will be enough to win this game on TNF. Tell me I'm wrong please.

You're not wrong

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't think BB starting Mac says anything about who he "likes". It's largely down to the fact that Mac is further along his relative developmental timelime, they need to learn what they have in him, and he earned the right to start based on his leadership, work ethic, and time he's invested over the past 14-16+ months.

If Zappe ends up starting next season, does that mean BB flipped from Team Mac to Team Zappe? Does it mean he no longer likes Mac? Caught the Zappe fever? No - it means he thinks starting Zappe is what is best at that point in time, and all of the considerations that go into that. Ditto for Mac starting now.

BB isn't picking the starter based on which faction he sides with in an online messageboard feud; he's coaching a football team.

No, but he thinks Mac gives them the best chance to win at this stage of the season. If he thought Zappe gives them a better chance he would start Zappe.

 

[upstater1]

I don't think the Pats win tonight either frankly. The matchups don't tend to favor them in any one personnel grouping. Secondary injuries are a thing again, Bryant will still be singled out and exploited, and while I am much more confident the current team can stop BUF traditional ground game - the performance against Jackson weighs against their ability to have a personal group to combat both (Tavai/Bentley too slow vs QB and Wilson/McMillan/Peppers too light against traditional RB runs).

I do like no more Daboll in the Pats favor plus the Allen arm injury. Does BB gamble and play a lot of DBs? Guess we'll see.

Progression to me is to not get blown out again. THAT'S what interests me more right now. Are they at least competitive with this BUF team? Do they compete across all personnel groups or is it another bloodbath where every throw sees the CB two steps behind and every Allen run is for massive gains...and finally does their punter actually, well, punt. A one score to 10 pt loss is still a significant improvement over last years ending for me.

I think you're right about a couple things here.

1. They can still exploit us for short passes to McKenzie and Singletary. We're horrible on the perimeter or underneath.
2. Josh Allen can run on us.

I'd prefer that someone else stay on Knox other than Dugger. Let Dugger guard the perimeter and otherwise stay on Allen.

My other concern with the Bills: this is a better defense than they had last year. Better DBs even with Hyde out, and they have a much better pass rush even without Von Miller. Epenese, Rousseau, Oliver, Lawson, are much better than what they threw at us last year.

On the plus side, we're much better on the DL and in the D-backfield than we were last year.

No result tonight would surprise me other than the Patriots winning in a blowout.

 

[slash83]

Guess Trent Brown was added to the injury report with an illness. SMH

 

[PatsFan2]

Guess Trent Brown was added to the injury report with an illness. SMH

So do we even have a back-up Tackle at this point with Wynn being out too?

 

[turkeyneck]

So do we even have a back-up Tackle at this point with Wynn being out too?

That TE conversion we just signed?

 

[PatsFan2]

Guess Trent Brown was added to the injury report with an illness. SMH

IF Trent Brown can't go is Mac going to be able to get a pass off? Not what we need in a must win game.

 

[slash83]

IF Trent Brown can't go is Mac going to be able to get a pass off? Not what we need in a must win game.

I figure the TE's will be chipping on almost every single pass play if he is indeed going to miss the game, but will see.

 

[captain stone]

Too small to block effectively. He's fun to watch with the ball, though.

I never expected him to block like Bolden or even SweetFeet... But he just hasn't done Anything with the ball in his hands either.

In addition to Rham Tough, we are going to need an Entirely New RB room next season... Another RBs coach would be nice too.

 

[captain stone]

Could have something to do with all the injuries to his legs.

Then why has he been playing?