Post Game Thread- Pats at Lions

[Patsfanin Philly]

Not including plyers who are primarily special teamers, there are 23 defensive players on the current roster.

Of those, 8 didn't play with the team last season at all, and one more (Hightower) played in only 5 games.

Through the first three games last season, the defense gave up:

391 rushing yards
992 passing yards
69 1st-downs
95 points

Through the first three games this season, this defense has given up:

430 rushing yards (+39)
1060 passing yards (+68)
73 first downs (+4)
77 points (-18)
________________________________________________
Meanwhile, through the first three games, the 2107 offense produced:

302 rushing yards
1020 passing yards
75 1st downs
99 points


So far, the 2018 offense has produced:

293 rushing yards (-9)
607 passing yards (-413)
53 1st downs (-22)
57 points (-42)

A big part of that is the third down conversion rate both on offense and defense. In the past, it was as if the team treated 2nd down as a third down trying to convert to get the first down, minimizing the number of third downs. This year it seems there are more third downs and if not converted, essentially giving up the ball.
2017 offense 3rd downs 82/202--- 41%, 10th best in the league
2018 offense 3rd down 10/35 ---29 %, 29th best in the league
--------------
2017 defense 82/202 --third down conversions allowed 39% --12th best
2018 defense 19/39-- third downs allowed--- 49%--29th best

 

[Kontradiction]

Toms deep pic at end seemed like a oh well F it chuck

And Dorsett, with all that speed, still couldn't get separation.

 

[iapatsfan]

Gonna reserve judgment until our top 2 WRs actually step on the field.

Can they play defense?

 

[iapatsfan]

Dolphins are good. I predict they'll stomp the pats(ies) next week. Deservedly so. You can't improve until you admit there's a problem.

Does Brady retire after this year? Without question. Does gronk? Likely.
We all knew this day would come and here it is.

I think we will retire or request a trade. I'm guessing he doesn't want to be part of an overhaul at his age.

 

[maineman209]

A big part of that is the third down conversion rate both on offense and defense. In the past, it was as if the team treated 2nd down as a third down trying to convert to get the first down, minimizing the number of third downs. This year it seems there are more third downs and if not converted, essentially giving up the ball.
2017 offense 3rd downs 82/202--- 41%, 10th best in the league
2018 offense 3rd down 10/35 ---29 %, 29th best in the league
--------------
2017 defense 82/202 --third down conversions allowed 39% --12th best
2018 defense 19/39-- third downs allowed--- 49%--29th best

Just for reference:

For the first three games of 2017 ...

Defense: 14/37 3rd & 4th down conversions allowed (38%)
Offense: 17/42 3rd & 4th downs converted (40%)

 

[Keyser Söze]

Pats have a serious lack of talent on both sides of the ball but especially defense. This is the result of B.B. having crap drafts the past 3-4 seasons. Why B.B. didn’t feel the need to upgrade the LB position blows my mind.

 

[Kontradiction]

 

[maineman209]

Doug Kyed‏Verified account @DougKyed 17m17 minutes ago
Kerryon Johnson went over 100 yards. First time a Lions running back has done that since 2013.

Johnson is actually the RB I was hoping the Pats would draft. I'm not surprised he had his breakout game in week-3. Just sorry that it had to be against the Pats.

Credit to Bob Quinn for his player acquisitions. And credit to Jeff Davidson for, at long last, being the guy who finally taught the Lions OL how to run-block.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It feels like a 2002 implosion is among us.

 

[maineman209]

Bill needs to give up the GM duties...We need someone like Piolo scouting players again. I miss those days.

Caserio is the guy in Pioli's job now.

 

[mcmurtry86]

It feels like a 2002 implosion is among us.

2002 team had a lot of talent on D. They'd out perform this group handily. I'd take the 2002 OL and WR too. Maybe the RB as well. That team, for some reason, just fell apart despite having solid talent (some obvious holes too)

This year's bunch is the worst roster they've had definitely since 2009, maybe since 2001. The front 7 and WR groups are embarrassingly bad and the RB group is a 3rd down back who can't run the ball and a rookie who can't run routes or catch (not counting Burkhead since he's perpetually hurt).

Not sure how coaching can improve this group of players. They need Chung, D.McCourty,Edelman and Hightower to find the fountain of youth. If that happens, they have a chance to get back to being a strong team even with the flaws in the roster. Seems like an unreasonable ask though

 

[Triumph]

Maybe they want to lose?

White averaged 9+ ypc but only had 3 carries and he was the most productive player rushing and receiving with 51 combined yards.

Dorsett had a 0 catch rate but he played the whole game until injury.

Patterson 1 for 12, but they wont throw him the ball if he does make it out on the field.

Hogan is a complimentary player and not a guy to build an offense around.

Burkhead sits every first half and then comes in and was very effective rushing last week and receiving this week. But scratch him off the list because he is hurt again.

 

[ensoul]

Any team with a competent QB is going to wreak havock on this D. Look at the schedule and the QBs they have to face:

Dolphin's (x2)
Colts
Chiefs
Packers
Titians
Vikings
Steelers

All good QBs.

They do play the Jets twice (which put up 41 points on the lions D) bills twice and the bears. They don't have elite QBs but can you really count on the pats to contain any of them?

 

[TheRainMaker]

2002 team had a lot of talent on D. They'd out perform this group handily. I'd take the 2002 OL and WR too. Maybe the RB as well. That team, for some reason, just fell apart despite having solid talent (some obvious holes too)

This year's bunch is the worst roster they've had definitely since 2009, maybe since 2001. The front 7 and WR groups are embarrassingly bad and the RB group is a 3rd down back who can't run the ball and a rookie who can't run routes or catch (not counting Burkhead since he's perpetually hurt).

Not sure how coaching can improve this group of players. They need Chung, D.McCourty,Edelman and Hightower to find the fountain of youth. If that happens, they have a chance to get back to being a strong team even with the flaws in the roster. Seems like an unreasonable ask though

If they lose against Miami, it’s going to be a long year. They just don’t have anyone new to get excited about on either side of the ball. You know things are bad when we are counting on a guy who’s been unreliable with the Browns (Josh Gordon).

 

[PatsfanTN]

I’ve got hope the offense will get better, work in progress.

I’m not so optimistic about the defense. I’m not sure it can be fixed and no offense in this league can recover from what I saw last night. Maybe The Saints, I don’t know.

How does the defense get fixed? It can’t just be Flowersand Chung....

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If they lose against Miami, it’s going to be a long year. They just don’t have anyone new to get excited about on either side of the ball. You know things are bad when we are counting on a guy who’s been unreliable with the Browns (Josh Gordon).

If the game were in Miami (thankfully it’s not) it’s a guaranteed loss.

 

[Triumph]

Numbers are ugly

NE - 22% on 3rd down conversions.
Time of possession NE 21:00 - DET 39:00
NE - 12 1st downs - DET - 25 1st downs
NE - 47 # of plays and DET 70 # of plays.

 

[kennyb]

Sad way to end brady's career. I kind of hope he can play for another team if he still wants to play. No point in him playing another year in this brokedown wreck.

 

[Kontradiction]

The offense will stabilize with the additions of Gordon and Edelman. The defense just flat out sucks and the coaching staff will have to coach around it again. They'll beat the little sisters of the poor and their PPG ranking will improve leading the mindless around here to pimp their rankings as if they're somehow improved but they'll eventually get exposed again because you can only coach around personnel issues for so long until they come back and bite you. That's the reality of this league.

 

[ivanvamp]

At least they looked capable last season

If they swapped jerseys with the browns at this point I don’t think anybody would notice a difference in play

No they didn't look capable last season. In those first four games they didn't look like they could stop ANYONE. Gilmore looked like a huge huge bust. Their LBs couldn't cover anyone (sound familiar there?). They couldn't get off the field on third down. They were getting shredded in every way imaginable. Three of those first four games were at home. The difference is that the offense looked good in those four games, scoring 27, 36, 36, and 30 points. This year, the offense has been anemic. 27, 20, and 10 points scored. Pretty ugly.

Edelman and Gordon will help immensely. The defense will improve. Maybe they won't ever be better than average this year, but they'll improve.

SOMETHING has to be done about the LBs though. That's a major problem without much of a solution in sight. Trade???