Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot ed.

[IllegalContact]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

the moment I saw the angle that Mayo took on the Bush screen early told me that they did not show up fully prepared. Couple that with the Lions playing like it was for a playoff spot...the result is the apex of the Lions season

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Stevan Ridley this preseason: 22 rushes 116 yards 5.3 ypc

Remove the 62 yard gaping hole run: 21 rushes 54 yards 2.6ypc

Not necessarily knocking him, just noticing he hasn't had much running lanes the last two weeks, as well as a good amount of the Philly game he played. Same with our other RBs.

 

[BlueThunder]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Leon seemed very tentative on what lane he was going to take when returning. He never looked full throttle. I was excited when Pats picked him up. Hope it's just a matter of getting comfortable with the return scheme and blocking.

 

[Marqui]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Stevan Ridley this preseason: 22 rushes 116 yards 5.3 ypc

Remove the 62 yard gaping hole run: 21 rushes 54 yards 2.6ypc

Not necessarily knocking him, just noticing he hasn't had much running lanes the last two weeks, as well as a good amount of the Philly game he played. Same with our other RBs.

Svitek and Wendell have been awful at run blocking. I don't understand what the obsession with Wendell is around here, he's small, weak, and nonathletic. Basically Dan Koppen 2.0

Hopefully Cannon and Connolly beat them out eventually.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

You really can't take much away from a preseason game as far as how the team will perform during the regular season. It's important to remember that in both the wins and the losses. That being said, Tavon Wilson looks like a lost cause out there. He's clearly still thinking instead of reacting from what I have seen so far this preseason. He should be doing the latter by now. I'm of the opinion that if we're going to praise Belichick for reaches that worked out (Vollmer), we should be able to equally criticize him for reaches that don't work out. Right now, that pick is looking pretty damn shameful and is a good example of why it's taken so long to rebuild this defense.

In other news, I think Cannon should be the starting RG and the team should move Connolly back to C. Wendell doesn't look strong enough to hold up against DT's the caliber of Detroit, which we're going to eventually see at some point throughout the playoffs. Dobson will have success against teams that throw primarily zone coverage at us, but needs to improve his route running and ability to release from the press. Thompkins looks impressive and hopefully Sudfeld learned from this one. Adrian Wilson looked horrendous.

In all, an ugly, ugly game in which the team can learn a lot from watching the film. You can't have four turnovers and expect to win.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

With the caveot of this is the preseason and it could all mean absolutely nothing in the long run.

• Most of the biggest problems with the first team offense tonight are very fixable. Biggest is ball protection. I am expecting some gaunlet drills this week. Other things like route running needs to be worked on. I would be more concerned if the Pats were getting outclassed, but the Pats were shooting themselves in the foot on a lot of drives. The one area the Pats really struggle and were clearly outplayed was o-line.
• Which bring me to point two. I think Svitek really was the weak link on the o-line tonight. He was getting manhandled. I think it affected Vollmer's performance because he was constantly looking in to protect him. There was one play where Vollmer completely missed his block on the outside, it looked like he was expecting the TE to pick up the outside rush and he turned in to help Svitek and let the guy right by him.
• Another impressive performance by the Pats' D Line. Ninkovich, Jones, and Kelly all played well and won their battles quite a bit. As bad as the o-line struggled, the D Line dominated. If the preseason is any indicator, the Pats will have one of the better front four in the league. Maybe not top 5, but maybe top 10.
• Thompkins is the starter. He looks like a veteran. Take away that one drop and he had a solid night. Seems that he can do a little of everything. He can stretch the field, go over the middle, whatever they ask.
• I saw some really good with Dobson and some not so good with Dobson. He is definitely not ready to start, but he has shown enough to be the first guy off the bench with a hand full of packages to start. He definitely needs to work on his route running and separation some more. Granted as the #3 WR, he will have a lot of favorable match ups.
• Starting to fear that as good as the Pats' first two picks were in last year's draft, their next two may be wasted picks.
• Looks like Sudfeld was benched because of the fumble (he was in the game at the end of the game). I would have liked to see him get more reps with Brady especially since Hooman played uneven at best.
• The tackling by the second team defense was some of the worst I have seen. I don't even know how to describe it.
• I thought Logan Ryan showed some good flashes with the first team the few times he got in there (most notably breaking up the pass on a 3rd down when he was pass interfered on), but didn't play all that well at all with the second team. Not horrible, but some missteps.
• Jamie Collins is all over the place, but unfortunately not in a good way a lot of the time. This guy could be a stud as some point, but he needs a lot of refinement before he gets there. He over pursues and takes bad angles way too much.
• The Lions are a bunch of thugs and punks. They are dumb to boot. It is one thing to try to rough up the other team, but it is another to do it after the whistle.
• Jake Ballard is toast right now. I don't know if he will ever rebound from this injury, but he isn't ready. I can see why the Pats are rumored to be shopping for a TE. Assuming that Fells is healthy, they really have two until Gronk gets back (Fells and Sudfeld).

Didn't get too excited about the first two games. Won't get too excited the other way in this game. Some good signs. Some bad signs.

GREAT Post ! Really appreciate it. Since I didn't see the game, your post made me feel a lot better than when I was scoreboard watching. As far as Dobson, the good thing is, his two weaknesses at this point are correctable. In fact, one of the Eagle's vets gave him props as far as his separation abilities during the joint practices, so I know he'll get better at that, and the route running will come too. What he does have, you can't teach, which is excellent athleticism.

Thompkins seems to have complete trust from Tom Brady, which is amazing for a rookie WR. You have to be excited as to what he adds to this team.

Tackling, this team has been a poor tackling team for a while, the defense has some excellent athletes, they just need to work more on the fundamentals. Once again, I worry about the lack of pass rush. 1 sack a game just doesn't cut it.

 

[patriot lifer]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

I think it is an almost certainty that Gronk starts the season on the roster. They are going to need him as soon as possible on the team given the state of the TEs at this time. I also don't think it should be an issue as there is nobody at the bottom of the roster that looks like they would be a tough cut.

I am a bit skeptical of our opinions on the players, including the TE's: Gronk, Ballard, Fells, Hooman, and Sudfeld. Not that I think we're way off, but for example who would have guessed that Hooman would make the roster last year? If we take only 3, then we start the year with essentially 2 TE's (with one rookie)--on a team that wants to run the ball significantly.

After witnessing such a sloppy game, I think our opinions on players may be slightly off-base due to irrational pessimism.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Svitek and Wendell have been awful at run blocking. I don't understand what the obsession with Wendell is around here, he's small, weak, and nonathletic. Basically Dan Koppen 2.0

Hopefully Cannon and Connolly beat them out eventually.

It's pretty funny that in your attempt to disparage Wendell you compare him to a guy who, in his prime, was a pretty damn good player.

Oh, and Wendell is a better OC than Connolly, so don't hold your breath.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

It's pretty funny that in your attempt to disparage Wendell you compare him to a guy who, in his prime, was a pretty damn good player.

Oh, and Wendell is a better OC than Connolly, so don't hold your breath.

Wendell is eventually going to be a huge reason for a loss, either during the regular season or the postseason. The Lions came out and said last night that they knew they could attack the lanes that Brady likes to step up into in order to make him uncomfortable. The big reason for that is because Wendell wasn't strong enough to hold up, and they knew that. Connolly, as we saw in the 2011 season (one of our strongest OL's since the dynasty years, and a big reason we got to the Super Bowl that season), is strong enough to hold up against DL's like that. Wendell is a competent C, but he's ideally suited as a back-up.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Wendell is eventually going to be a huge reason for a loss, either during the regular season or the postseason. The Lions came out and said last night that they knew they could attack the lanes that Brady likes to step up into in order to make him uncomfortable. The big reason for that is because Wendell wasn't strong enough to hold up, and they knew that. Connolly, as we saw in the 2011 season (one of our strongest OL's since the dynasty years, and a big reason we got to the Super Bowl that season), is strong enough to hold up against DL's like that. Wendell is a competent C, but he's ideally suited as a back-up.

I simply don't agree, and I think you overrate Connolly to a significant degree.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

I simply don't agree, and I think you overrate Connolly to a significant degree.

That's fine, but A-Gap pressure without the opposing defense blitzing wasn't a problem in 2011. Even in the Super Bowl, the Giants were generating their pressure primarily through the B-Gap (it came out afterward that Mankins was playing on a torn ACL). A-Gap pressure became a problem again at times last year and was a problem last night. I guess it would depend strongly on how much you attribute the 2011 team's success against it to Brian Waters. But it was pretty clear that Wendell was getting frequently overpowered last night. His saving grace will be that a lot of teams that we play this season won't have DL's like the Lions. But, like I said, we're eventually going to run into one in the postseason. And if there's anything that would signify kryptonite to Brady, it's pressure up the middle, in his face, and in the lanes he likes to step up into. The center holding up at the point of attack is absolutely the most important factor there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Wendell is eventually going to be a huge reason for a loss, either during the regular season or the postseason. The Lions came out and said last night that they knew they could attack the lanes that Brady likes to step up into in order to make him uncomfortable. The big reason for that is because Wendell wasn't strong enough to hold up, and they knew that. Connolly, as we saw in the 2011 season (one of our strongest OL's since the dynasty years, and a big reason we got to the Super Bowl that season), is strong enough to hold up against DL's like that. Wendell is a competent C, but he's ideally suited as a back-up.

Wendell's a backup center
Connolly's a backup right guard and better at center than RG (well, he was when last we saw him there)


If Cannon can start

Solder
Mankins
Connolly
Cannon
Vollmer

would seem to make sense.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

That's fine, but A-Gap pressure without the opposing defense blitzing wasn't a problem in 2011. Even in the Super Bowl, the Giants were generating their pressure primarily through the B-Gap (it came out afterward that Mankins was playing on a torn ACL). A-Gap pressure became a problem again at times last year and was a problem last night. I guess it would depend strongly on how much you attribute the 2011 team's success against it to Brian Waters. But it was pretty clear that Wendell was getting frequently overpowered last night. His saving grace will be that a lot of teams that we play this season won't have DL's like the Lions. But, like I said, we're eventually going to run into one in the postseason. And if there's anything that would signify kryptonite to Brady, it's pressure up the middle, in his face, and in the lanes he likes to step up into. The center holding up at the point of attack is absolutely the most important factor there.

Does Geno Atkins rush the A-gap or B-Gap....? :scared:

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

That's fine, but A-Gap pressure without the opposing defense blitzing wasn't a problem in 2011. Even in the Super Bowl, the Giants were generating their pressure primarily through the B-Gap (it came out afterward that Mankins was playing on a torn ACL). A-Gap pressure became a problem again at times last year and was a problem last night. I guess it would depend strongly on how much you attribute the 2011 team's success against it to Brian Waters. But it was pretty clear that Wendell was getting frequently overpowered last night. His saving grace will be that a lot of teams that we play this season won't have DL's like the Lions. But, like I said, we're eventually going to run into one in the postseason. And if there's anything that would signify kryptonite to Brady, it's pressure up the middle, in his face, and in the lanes he likes to step up into. The center holding up at the point of attack is absolutely the most important factor there.

Not much I disagree with here, but I would caution into reading too much into last night's performance. Vollmer looked terrible, too, though I suspect that was mostly due to Svitek's royal suckage.

I am willing to bet that, if both are healthy, Wendell will be the starter at OC, and I will recuse myself from all future talent evaluation if that doesn't end up being the case.

 

[ExpatPack]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

i would like to play these loud mouth clowns here during the regular season.

Packers have to deal with their **** 2x every year. Fortunately during the regular season they suck and you can always rely on Suh for a key personal foul of some kind or other to turn a 3rd-and-12 into a 1st-and-10.

 

[Dingleberry]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Going into this season, my concern has been the same it has been for many years now--the D. More specifically, the pass rush.

I do not worry about the offense. That first drive was a text book Brady opening drive for a TD. A fumble by the rookie TE stalled that. Ya think Sudfeld will be a little more aware of ball security from now on? Total different game at 7-0 and obviously without the other ridiculous fumbles.

Which leads to the reason I feel good after this game. The D.

The 1st team D looked strong. The front 4 got pressure. How many points would Detroit have scored in the first half if they actually started their drives on their side of the field? Those turnovers are not going to happen again like they did last night.

And for those worried about the offense...Thompkins is already a better outside WR than they have had in years. I was amazed at how quick he is off the line. He and Amendola look like they will be in sync with Brady.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Wendell's a backup center
Connolly's a backup right guard and better at center than RG (well, he was when last we saw him there)


If Cannon can start

Solder
Mankins
Connolly
Cannon
Vollmer

would seem to make sense.

I've been of the opinion for some time that Cannon is a better fit at RG than he is at RT. His lateral quickness doesn't make him an ideal candidate at RT, though he can line up there in a pinch if need be. At RG, the issue with his lateral quickness is masked and he's strong enough to hold up at the point of attack. I would like to see that line-up as the reviews with Cannon lining up at RG have been mostly positive (at least from what I have seen).

Does Geno Atkins rush the A-gap or B-Gap....? :scared:

Atkins is a 3-technique DT, so he'll primarily be shooting the B-Gap.

 

[zoostation]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

The Patriots lost their third exhibition game in 2001, 2004 and 2011, those years turned out alright especially the first two.

Yeah.. those were my thoughts shortly after the game.

Here is some 2011 deja vu. It was game 3 as well and I remember my buddy from Detroit's relentless texts. I reminded him on each reply it was only 'practice'.

Detroit Lions eyeing encore performance after throttling Patriots in 2011 preseason | MLive.com

 

[captain stone]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

Svitek and Wendell have been awful at run blocking. I don't understand what the obsession with Wendell is around here, he's small, weak, and nonathletic. Basically Dan Koppen 2.0

Hopefully Cannon and Connolly beat them out eventually.

I agree, though Koppen >>> Wendell.

Also, Vollmer kinda sucked last night. He was both weaker & slower than Jason Jones; not a good combination.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Post Game Thought - the car industry isn't the only thing struggling in Detriot e

I'll cosign on the "I'd much rather see Connolly at center than Wendell". Cannon should be RG.