Poll: Are rookies paid too much; more money needs to go to the vets??

[ClosingTime]

The thing is, the money is not guaranteed. A player gets hurt the first game of the year and his career is over and all they have is their signing bonus.
People really need to take the envy, for lack of a better term, out of this thought process. The notion that "well these guys make more money than I ever will" is not germaine. Guess what? a lot of people make more than you or I ever will and for far less dangerous, entertaining or worthwhile jobs. We can talk about the Exxon execs thay are making a billion dollars a year for doing very little other than polluting the envirnment and sticking it to working class folks in order to buy that third yacht and seventh summer home. All because their daddy got them a job, not because of countless hours of blood and sweat.
There was an good article a few years back about how picking in the top 10 can actually hurt a team for the very reason that it ties up so much cap money, especially when a QB is involved. The ironic thing is that article cited the Bengals who were strapped with the contracts of Akili Smith, Peter Warrick etc. Of course the Bengals turned it around when they picked Palmer first. And even then they decided he was underpaid and signed him to a more lucrative. longterm deal. So even then, it comes down to drafting well. No matter where you pick in the first round that player better be an impact player. The stakes go up proprtionally as you get closer to the #1 pick but that's should be wlecome.
Remember too, teams cane always trade down, most usually can't withstand the temptation of the top stars.

 

[texpat]

To put into perspective.

Let's say that every team has 58 players make its 53-man roster, PUP or IR after all th cuts are done. 58*32=1856.

Let's also that out of the 58 players that 11 of them are rookies. 11 of 58 = 18.97%. 11*32=352

The total cap limit for 32 teams is $3,284,461,170.

The rookie pool limit for the 255 draft picks is $133,382,411. Let's add $30 million to that to cover the costs of the salaries of the 97 UDFAs (3 per team). That gives us $163,382,411, which is less than 5% of the total cap limit.

In other words, 18.97% of the players (rookies) are taking up 5% of the total cap space.

And I would argue that only in rare instances, do rookies contribute more than 5% to the success of the team. The system definately pays based on potential rather than merit for most rookies, which is why the average career is less than 4 years. Most players will be flushed out by their 4th year unless they can reach their potential.

 

[texpat]

The thing is, the money is not guaranteed. A player gets hurt the first game of the year and his career is over and all they have is their signing bonus.

Not a true statement. They will be paid more than their signing bonus.

A player who is injured (due to football) cannot be cut, therefore, he is paid his contract as long as he is hurt. Some contracts will offer an injury settlement, where a team can buy-out an injured player.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

In other words, 18.97% of the players (rookies) are taking up 5% of the total cap space.

sounds like rookies are way underpaid.

 

[Miguel]

Around April 24 there was a report in a San Diego paper that 30 teams (Browns and Vikings were not included) had about $278 million in cap space left. Because of the Top 51 rule, even though the rookie pool is $133 million the net cap effect of signing all of the 255 drafted rookies and the UDFAs should be max $63 million. $278-$63=$215 million left in cap space. Does cap space equal contract and bonus money?? No, but $215 million in cap space pretty much negates the argument that teams will not have money to spend on veterans because of what they spent on the rookies.

Update - The latest cap update has the 32 teams with over 282 million in cap space. And that's including the cap effect of the signing of 2 draft picks (Mario Williams and Willie Colon).

I'm still waiting for someone to show that the money that will be spent on rookies is preventing current veterans from getting more money.

 

[Miguel]

Again, I'm talking actual cash payroll, not cap. And not slashing rookie salaries or contracts, just capping insane signing bonus payouts to players who have yet to set foot on the field.

Mario Williams got $0 for a signing bonus.

Several 2005 1st round draft picks also got zero signing bonuses.

You can not ask for a lower signing bonus.

 

[VJCPatriot]

But Miguel, you're trying to use numbers to explain things! Obviously opinion matters a lot more than FACTS in this forum!

To put into perspective.

Let's say that every team has 58 players make its 53-man roster, PUP or IR after all th cuts are done. 58*32=1856.

Let's also that out of the 58 players that 11 of them are rookies. 11 of 58 = 18.97%. 11*32=352

The total cap limit for 32 teams is $3,284,461,170.

The rookie pool limit for the 255 draft picks is $133,382,411. Let's add $30 million to that to cover the costs of the salaries of the 97 UDFAs (3 per team). That gives us $163,382,411, which is less than 5% of the total cap limit.

In other words, 18.97% of the players (rookies) are taking up 5% of the total cap space.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mario Williams got $0 for a signing bonus.

Several 2005 1st round draft picks also got zero signing bonuses.

You can not ask for a lower signing bonus.

You know as well as I do that according to reports almost half of Mario's 6 year $54M contract ($26.5M) is guaranteed and will be paid to him in his first two seasons, and that equals or exceeds what he would have netted with a $20M+++ signing bonus and 2 years of minimum salaries. He will possibly see more $$$ than probowler Richard Seymour over the 2006 and 2007 seasons, not bad for a kid just out of college who has never set foot on an NFL field.

 

[Miguel]

Bob Kraft , a few years back, attempted to put some kind of a cap, and a maximum, on rookie salaries, etc..... it didn't fly.

What did Bob Kraft propose during the last CBA negotiations?? As far as anyone on this board can tell, nothing. That is telling, IMO. I do not recall any talk of a rookie scale in March.

 

[Miguel]

I know a lot of folks don't care that an UDFA is making only $150K a year.

A lot of folks know that a UDFA will make $275K this year.

 

[ClosingTime]

Touche, Miguel.
I never claimed to be a capologist like yourself. I belive the point is still valid, and one that you seem to agree with, that being that the lower round rookies and UDFA are, relatively, underpaid.
I just hate the mantra, 'these guys are making more in a year than I'll make in ten for playing a game!"

 

[Miguel]

Updated numbers can be found at
http://www.patscap.com/cappercentages.htm

I culled the numbers from a NFLPA.org research document.

Quick Summary,

Players with 0 to 3 accrued seasons made up close to 58% (1,081) of the total number of players (1,876) in the NFL. Those players took home 30% of the cash.

Players with 0 to 3 accrued seasons took home an average of $715K in cash. Players with at least 4 accrued seasons took home an average of $2.3 million in cash.

 

[Miguel]

Touche, Miguel.
I never claimed to be a capologist like yourself. I belive the point is still valid, and oe that you seem o agree, that being that the lower round rookies and UDFA are, relatively, underpaid.

Not only do I agree with you I also happen to believe that a great deal of the rookies are underpaid. I just happen to think that the current rookie pay system is fine, the way it is. The system is geared to giving vets more and more cash and an increasing proportion of the cap space. Teams are already having a hard time using up all of their cap space. So I question why limit the salaries of the lowest paid players.

No one has showed that the money that will be paid to the rookies is money that would otherwise gone to veterans.

No one has showed that a rookie pay scale was even brought up in the last CBA negotiations.

 

[Miguel]

You know as well as I do that according to reports almost half of Mario's 6 year $54M contract ($26.5M) is guaranteed and will be paid to him in his first two seasons, and that equals or exceeds what he would have netted with a $20M+++ signing bonus and 2 years of minimum salaries. He will possibly see more $$$ than probowler Richard Seymour over the 2006 and 2007 seasons, not bad for a kid just out of college who has never set foot on an NFL field.

You said "Again, I'm talking actual cash payroll, not cap. And not slashing rookie salaries or contracts, just capping insane signing bonus payouts to players who have yet to set foot on the field. " Well, if you are not slashing rookie salaries or contracts and just capping insane signing bonus payouts, how do you propose preventing a contract like Mario Williams' from happening in the future??It seems to me that the only way is to do so is to limit the size of a rookie contract. Propose that to the NFLPA and they will certainly ask to shorten the length of the rookie contract even further.