PFT makes case for Brady "having a better season than 2007" and being an MVP candidate

[RobertWeathers]

But it doesn't show up evenly in that stats, which is my point. Moss would allow the Pats to have those 50 point monster games, where Brady would throw for 6TDs with a ridiculous rating. Gronk's impact is not just more balanced, but also makes the offense harder to stop, game in game out. The Gronk team won't put as many points on the board at the end of the season, however, or blow Brady's stats up into uncharted territory, though, like Moss could. THAT is my point. It is stats. A dominant run game, thanks to Gronks blocking, doesn't show up in Brady's stat line.

I'm not sure where we are disagreeing here?

One thing to know...the Pats score more points with Gronk and TB12s stat line is better.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I'm not sure where we are disagreeing here?

One thing to know...the Pats score more points with Gronk and TB12s stat line is better.

We aren't, really, lol.

As for points/stats, I'm referring ONLY to '07 Moss. '08 with Cassel doesn't count, nor should '09 with Moss starting to age and Brady working back from his injury. '07 Moss was the most points ever scored by the Pats and the best stat season for Brady (at least the most explosive, certainly a case can be made for '10 or this season).

If Gronk had been health all season, I think the argument of '07 weapons vs Gronk, Bennett, Edelman, Hogan, etc would be a lot closer. But Gronk barely played this season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We aren't, really, lol.

As for points/stats, I'm referring ONLY to '07 Moss. '08 with Cassel doesn't count, nor should '09 with Moss starting to age and Brady working back from his injury. '07 Moss was the most points ever scored by the Pats and the best stat season for Brady (at least the most explosive, certainly a case can be made for '10 or this season).

Exactly.

I consider a motivated, all-in Randy to be the GoAT WR of all-time. Better than Rice, etc. He was a freak.

Gronk is the same kind of freak.

Lawrence Taylor, Jim Brown, Reggie White....freaks.

If Gronk had been health all season, I think the argument of '07 weapons vs Gronk, Bennett, Edelman, Hogan, etc would be a lot closer. But Gronk barely played this season.

That is my opinion as well.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Last thing I'll say about the '07 team is how quickly they could get up on you. Now, I love the consistency of this current 2TE type of team and emphasising the running game, but it's usually a slower offense. With that '07 team, Moss could completely take over a game in the blink of an eye where, literally, within 5 or 10 minutes the the Pats could put 3 or 4 offensive TDs on the board. That offense could end a game quicker than just about any offense I've ever seen.

But that's just an observation, not really about the topic. That was a fun offense to watch.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm not going to even compare Gronk because we only had him for 6 games.

Where we differ is JE11 vs Welker. I'll take JE11 over Welker any day and twice on Sundays. JE11 has the clutch gene, Welker chokes. Welker was tremendous statistically, but who made the shake em out of their cleats Superbowl game winning TD catch? Julian Edelman. As Giselle said - Does my husband have to catch his own passes too? Keep Moss but replace Welker with Edelman and we win the Super Bowl in 2007. JMO.

Finally, Tom Brady deserves to win the MVP this year. What he has done in 12 game is just unmatched. His 28-2 TD to INT ratio is the best in the history of the NFL. IF he doesn't win it's just because people are tired of seeing Patriots success. But that's ok, Brady is the MVP in my heart. I just hope the voters will give him the fair chance that he deserves. I know he only cares about the Lombardi trophy but it would be nice to give him the MVP award at age 39, I don't know how many seasons that brilliant will come around in a career already destined for the HOF.

I love Gronk, but even him, when you are talking purely a stats machine, can't compare to Moss. Plus, as you mentioned, Welker was the best slot receiver the game maybe ever saw. That combo was just uncoverable. And I love JE11, but he is no Welker. I obviously have a ton of love/respect for his performance in the playoffs 2 years ago, the guys 185% effort 125% of the time, but realistically, he's simply not Welker.

I'd take the '07 Moss + Welker combo (plus jags) over any combination(3, 4, however many you want) of current NFL receivers.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Where we differ is JE11 vs Welker. I'll take JE11 over Welker any day and twice on Sundays. JE11 has the clutch gene, Welker chokes. Welker was tremendous statistically, but who made the shake em out of their cleats Superbowl game winning TD catch? Julian Edelman. As Giselle said - Does my husband have to catch his own passes too? Keep Moss but replace Welker with Edelman and we win the Super Bowl in 2007. JMO

Oh give me a break. Welker couldn't haul in ONE, TOUGH catch and people act like he's Reche Caldwell. He didn't lose us that Superbowl. How about Brady with the -2 pt play with the intentional grounding safety right out of the gate?

Let's just look at playoffs.
Welker:
13 games, 866 yards, 88/116 (rep/targets, 76%), 9.84 yds/rec, 7.47 yds/targ, 5TD
Edelman:
12 games, 682 yards, 68/104(rep/targets, 65%), 10.3 yds/rec, 6.56 yds/targ, 4TD

You want to talk Superbowl:
Welker 07: 11/14, 103 yards, 9.36 y/at. He was the ONLY one that game able to move the chains.

And drops? Edelman had 3 drops in the playoffs last year. It was Gronk, not Edelman, that kept us in the game in Den.

1 drop doesn't define a career, especially considering it wasn't a dropped TD or with them trailing. That team started poorly and finished poorly. Welker's drop didn't cost them anything.

This isn't to say that I don't love Edelman, but give me a break with this "Welker sucks, he isn't clutch!" crap...

 

[deroc5050]

I'm not going to even compare Gronk because we only had him for 6 games.

Where we differ is JE11 vs Welker. I'll take JE11 over Welker any day and twice on Sundays. JE11 has the clutch gene, Welker chokes. Welker was tremendous statistically, but who made the shake em out of their cleats Superbowl game winning TD catch? Julian Edelman. As Giselle said - Does my husband have to catch his own passes too? Keep Moss but replace Welker with Edelman and we win the Super Bowl in 2007. JMO.

Finally, Tom Brady deserves to win the MVP this year. What he has done in 12 game is just unmatched. His 28-2 TD to INT ratio is the best in the history of the NFL. IF he doesn't win it's just because people are tired of seeing Patriots success. But that's ok, Brady is the MVP in my heart. I just hope the voters will give him the fair chance that he deserves. I know he only cares about the Lombardi trophy but it would be nice to give him the MVP award at age 39, I don't know how many seasons that brilliant will come around in a career already destined for the HOF.

The MVP is such a silly award to be honest... If Brady wanted the MVP instead of handing it off to LG for 18 TD's they could have thrown 6 or 7 TD's on the goal line and Brady would have had 34-35 TD's and would be the MVP. It really is a meaningless award and like most football awards its a team oriented award.

 

[Ivan]

The key point here is:

HE'S GETTING BETTER!

Brady is the big scary monster who gets stronger when you try to kill him, the only difference being that he is actually alive.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

The MVP is such a silly award to be honest... If Brady wanted the MVP instead of handing it off to LG for 18 TD's they could have thrown 6 or 7 TD's on the goal line and Brady would have had 34-35 TD's and would be the MVP. It really is a meaningless award and like most football awards its a team oriented award.

they would still say he missed 1/4 of season

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Let's just look at playoffs.
Welker:
13 games, 866 yards, 88/116 (rep/targets, 76%), 9.84 yds/rec, 7.47 yds/targ, 5TD
Edelman:
12 games, 682 yards, 68/104(rep/targets, 65%), 10.3 yds/rec, 6.56 yds/targ, 4TD

You want to talk Superbowl:
Welker 07: 11/14, 103 yards, 9.36 y/at. He was the ONLY one that game able to move the chains.

Yeah I read the thread and was ready to declare that WW and JE are a draw. After researching briefly, I don't think that's objectively true.

JE had a great year this year - stayed healthy enough to play 16 games. Caught 98 passes for 1100 yards and 3 TD. This is almost a match for his career year in 2013, except that he caught 7 more passes and scored 3 more TD that year.

WW had 5 seasons with the Patriots that were statistically superior to either of the aforementioned JE years, with the worst of those (WW in '08) basically matching JE this season (111 catches for 1165 yards and 3 TD).

Caveat: *I didn't do enough homework to see how efficient each guy is*

 

[deroc5050]

Yeah I read the thread and was ready to declare that WW and JE are a draw. After researching briefly, I don't think that's objectively true.

JE had a great year this year - stayed healthy enough to play 16 games. Caught 98 passes for 1100 yards and 3 TD. This is almost a match for his career year in 2013, except that he caught 7 more passes and scored 3 more TD that year.

WW had 5 seasons with the Patriots that were statistically superior to either of the aforementioned JE years, with the worst of those (WW in '08) basically matching JE this season (111 catches for 1165 yards and 3 TD).

Caveat: *I didn't do enough homework to see how efficient each guy is*

If Welker caught the ball in the Super Bowl he would be considered better... but he didn't. Both Welker and Edelman are very similar. I would take either one.. its just to bad Wes didn't catch the ball in the Super Bowl..

 

[Satchboogie3]

Michael Holly pointed out this ridiculous revelation: TB12 has improved in every (avg) category the last 4 years. Completion %, Yds/att, TD%, INT%, Rating.
Comp %:
2013: 60.5
2014: 64.1
2015: 64.4
2016: 67.4

Yds/Att:
'13: 6.9
'14: 7.1
'15: 7.6
'16: 8.2

TD%:
'13: 4.0
'14: 5.7
'15: 5.8
'16: 6.5

INT%:
'13: 1.8
'14: 1.5
'15: 1.1
'16: 0.5

Rating:
'13: 83.7
'14: 97.4
'15: 102.2
'16: 112.2

For a QB age 36 to 39. As Holly said, that should be impossible. Just incredible.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

he said he feels like 29, he aint kiddin

 

[The Brandon Five]

One aspect that seems to have been totally overlooked in the review of TB's suspension is that it wasn't just 4 games that he missed. As a result of that punishment he was limited in pre-season practices and games, as the team had to prepare JG and JB for the first 4 games. Furthermore he was unable to practice completely during the first 4 weeks of the season. This meant that one of his biggest opportunities was negated; that is the ability to constantly work on timing of routes and help new offensive teammates to adjust to the Patriot schemes. This has always been the bedrock of TB's preparations, endless repetitions and turning theory into practice. All this heavily handicapped him coming into week 5. I am sure that few, if any, other positions are as deeply affected by lack of practice and preparation. Yet he achieved his record breaking stats despite that impediment. Would any other quarterback have overcome such obstacles (barring injuries of course), and thrived as well as Brady?

I don't really care if TB doesn't win MVP, and am quite happy for Ryan to take the honor. I would be annoyed if Rodgers got it however, as he has had few if any obstacles over the season, and was noticeably lacking in effort/execution in the earlier season games. It's almost a mark of extreme distinction that TB has performed as exceptionally as he has over the last 17 seasons, and yet only won MVP twice. The comparison to others who have played less impressively and won it 3 or more times, only highlights the slights.

I am hoping instead that he wins his 4th game MVP in Houston.

Not only that, he was not allowed to attend any meetings or have any contact with the team. Josh Gordon was serving a four-game suspension and was allowed to fully participate off the field.

 

[TBR]

The MVP is such a silly award to be honest... If Brady wanted the MVP instead of handing it off to LG for 18 TD's they could have thrown 6 or 7 TD's on the goal line and Brady would have had 34-35 TD's and would be the MVP. It really is a meaningless award and like most football awards its a team oriented award.

Yea the difference is that Rodgers had no RB so they threw non-stop as they got closer to the end-zone.

Between only Jordy Nelson and Devante Adams, Rodgers threw them 18 TDs within redzone. Their average yards per reception in the redzone was 6.7 yards and 5.0 yards, respectively.

24 of Rodgers' total TDs were single digits in yards. At one point, 8 in a row were.

 

[deroc5050]

Michael Holly pointed out this ridiculous revelation: TB12 has improved in every (avg) category the last 4 years. Completion %, Yds/att, TD%, INT%, Rating.
Comp %:
2013: 60.5
2014: 64.1
2015: 64.4
2016: 67.4

Yds/Att:
'13: 6.9
'14: 7.1
'15: 7.6
'16: 8.2

TD%:
'13: 4.0
'14: 5.7
'15: 5.8
'16: 6.5

INT%:
'13: 1.8
'14: 1.5
'15: 1.1
'16: 0.5

Rating:
'13: 83.7
'14: 97.4
'15: 102.2
'16: 112.2

For a QB age 36 to 39. As Holly said, that should be impossible. Just incredible.

Brady must have had an injury or something wasn't right in 2013.. those numbers are not good.

 

[Danger Zone]

I don't think there's a "wrong" answer in choosing between Edelman and Welker.

That said, give me Edelman. I will gladly accept a fraction less talent/quickness in exchange for his grit and determination.

---
Any quarterback that destroys/sets the NFL record for interception to TD ratio should be MVP (as long as their other stats are competitive of course). Just my opinion.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I don't think there's a "wrong" answer in choosing between Edelman and Welker.

That said, give me Edelman. I will gladly accept a fraction less talent/quickness in exchange for his grit and determination.

Exactly. I think people forget that we used to say the same think's about Welker, the tough, physical, and clutch (Brady's binky). But that one 'drop' in the Superbowl and people now completely forget who he was.

 

[Danger Zone]

Exactly. I think people forget that we used to say the same think's about Welker, the tough, physical, and clutch (Brady's binky). But that one 'drop' in the Superbowl and people now completely forget who he was.

I get that you are generalizing and pretty fairly at that, but that's not my opinion.

I'd describe Welker as scrappy but Edelman is beyond that.

 

[Jackson 2]

The MVP is such a silly award to be honest... If Brady wanted the MVP instead of handing it off to LG for 18 TD's they could have thrown 6 or 7 TD's on the goal line and Brady would have had 34-35 TD's and would be the MVP. It really is a meaningless award and like most football awards its a team oriented award.

Exactly what Peyton used to do. First and goal on the 2? 3 straight passes, sometimes 4. His specialty was the 2 yd. TD pass.