PFT: Belichick sees Dramatic Improvement in Mac

[borg]

QB’s make WR’s, until WR’s start throwing to QB’s that’s how it’s going to stay. WR’s can enhance QB’s stats, but they don’t make them “better.” Josh Allen got better on his own and with the help of his coaches.

Just a coincidence then......

Since Diggs joined Buffalo, Allen's yds/season jumped 1,400 yds
From 3100 yds in 2019 to 4500 in '20 and 4400 yds in '21
His QBR jumped 26 pts and his completion % jumped 9 % from '19 to '20

Of course playing against a Stevie B defense the past two years certainly has boosted Allen's stats

Buffalo points vs NE past two years: 24, 38, 10 (50 yr storm game), 33, 47
Reminiscent of how OJ feasted on NE's defense back in the day, padding his stats (example:1973: 250 yds & 200 yds rushing vs NE in 2 games)

 

[XLIX]

This sounds like you're saying you prefer Mac Jones over Josh Allen. Is that accurate?

What I said was Josh Allen sucked until he got a top flight receiver. If he played in NE, he would still be putting up those same horrible numbers.

BTW you never answered my question: Are you old enough to remember Scott Norwood or is last year your most painful memory as a sports fan?

 

[n1997y]

I Would rather watch us win in a wild shootout than 7-3 , these comments are exciting news i‘m pumped for the offense

I’d rather watch us win.

period.

full stop.

agree about the comments and being pumped for this season.

 

[Wozzy]

Josh Allen sucked his first 2 years in the League. It wasn't until year 3 that he took his big step forward. By an amazing coincidence, the Bills picked up a top flight, legit #1 WR that season.

Josh Allen, years 1 and 2: 440-781 (56.3%), 5,163 yards, 30 TD, 21 INT
Josh Allen, years 3 and 4: 805-1,218 (66.1%), 8,951 yards, 73 TD, 25 INT

The difference is night and day.

That’s why you avoided posting his rookie stats alone compared to his sophomore stats…. the difference was night and day.

LOL!! That's your counter example? Andrew Walter...?

I thought WR’s made QB’s better? I also used the AJ Brown example… which you dodged.

Randy Moss made an entire career of making the QBs he played with better. He turned 14-year veteran Randall Cunningham into an MVP candidate for Pete's sake.

Cunningham went to three pro bowls before Randy Moss finished middle school… lol.

You have a right to your ignorance.

Giving Diggs credit for Allen’s improvement is the height of ignorance, the ball travels in one direction… QB>WR… not the other way around.

 

[Wozzy]

I don't think Stafford is a quarterback who elevates the players around him like Brady, Rodgers and Mahomes can. He also throws too many untimely picks.

In 12 seasons Staffords went to the playoffs 4 times, he got bounced in the 1st game 4 times. One season on the Rams and he won a ring with the same team Goff had on the Super Bowl 2 seasons ago. QB magic…

I don't think that's entirely fair. His immense talent is undeniable. The last two seasons he's accounted for 87 TDs. He's been ridiculously good in the postseason... 6 games, 14 TDs, 1 INT... the Buffalo defense has had no answer for KC in the playoffs, surrendering 500 yards and 40 points per matchup.

So QB’s gets all the credit when they win and none of the blame when they lose. Allen was good in the postseason last year, prior to that he wasn’t.

Because I think Brady was more valuable to the dynasty than Belichick? Because I think Josh Allen is better than Mac Jones?

Without BB there is no Tom Brady or Patriot dynasty… solid logic. Josh Allen is better than Mac now, Mac was better than Allen as a rookie.

You really think I fudged the order of the rankings because "I hate the Patriots"? That's pretty stupid.

You hate the Patriots, or resent them at least for letting your body pillow leave as a free agent. It colors everything you post here.

Jackson's talent is freakish. He's a lethal rushing quarterback who averages 6 yards per attempt. He missed 5 games last season so his totals were down however his completion percentage was at his career average (64%) and his yards per game (passing + rushing) was the best of his career. His picks were up last season but his career INT% is still a respectable 2.3% and he has the same career TD% as Aaron Rodgers at 6.3%. If Jackson's fully healthy this season then I expect him to fall somewhere in the range of his 2019/2020 production. The fun part is we're going to find out who's right about Jackson.

Here’s what I wrote about Jackson before the draft when jokers like you were clamoring for the Pats to draft him:

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold.
He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl.
Vick has a career 56% completion rate, his career win/loss record is 61-51, he averaged over 2.5 INT's per game... people think he was good because he was good on Tecmo Bowl or Nintendo, in the real world he appeared in 5 playoff games over 13 seasons.
You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

It’s too late, I’ve already proven to be spot on about who Lamar Jackson is. Dead on correct…

Firstly I never said Mac Jones has "peaked." Secondly your comment about Allen is entirely false. He was second in MVP voting in his third season. He had a terrible rookie season (if you ignore his rushing totals) but he's wasn't that bad in year two... his last 12 games he had 6 rushing TDs, 17 passing TDs, and only 5 turnovers. His rookie season he legitimately had 0 decent receivers and year two he had John Brown (mediocre) and Cole Beasley (a decent slot). Aside from all that, I'm talking about right now, heading into the 2022 season... Allen (or Mahomes) is the best quarterback in the NFL.

Fans and media were calling Allen a bust his first two years. You used your own QB rankings as a point of reference above and didn’t highlight that they were in fact your rankings. Mac is going to be much improved this year, any additional weapons added will only add to that.

 

[Wozzy]

Just a coincidence then......

Since Diggs joined Buffalo, Allen's yds/season jumped 1,400 yds
From 3100 yds in 2019 to 4500 in '20 and 4400 yds in '21
His QBR jumped 26 pts and his completion % jumped 9 % from '19 to '20

Of course playing against a Stevie B defense the past two years certainly has boosted Allen's stats

Buffalo points vs NE past two years: 24, 38, 10 (50 yr storm game), 33, 47
Reminiscent of how OJ feasted on NE's defense back in the day, padding his stats (example:1973: 250 yds & 200 yds rushing vs NE in 2 games)

Look at every rookie QB in history, then compare their stats to their subsequent 2-4 years... then tell me it's a shocking statement to declare that rookie QB's aren't nearly as good in year three as they were in year one.

WTF are we even talking about here...?

 

[TheRainMaker]

If it all came down to the players around him, can we put Hoyer in instead of him and expect the same outcome? Or sign Cam off his couch? C'mon, man...

Does a QB not need a good supporting cast?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Does a QB not need a good supporting cast?

Brady USED to be able to win super bowls with Edelman and bunch of smurfs, but not anymore...he needs weapons. Hence, why he does a lot of recruiting of older vets like Julio and Rudolph.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady USED to be able to win super bowls with Edelman and bunch of smurfs, but not anymore...he needs weapons. Hence, why he does a lot of recruiting of older vets like Julio.

Most of the years that he lost in the playoffs, the lack of supporting cast on either side of the ball stood out.

 

[XLIX]

That’s why you avoided posting his rookie stats alone compared to his sophomore stats…. the difference was night and day.

You mean the same stats that you haven't posted either? If you have a counter point to make, feel free to make it.

Josh Allen sucked his first 2 years. I gave support for that statement. You haven't given a single thing.

I thought WR’s made QB’s better? I also used the AJ Brown example… which you dodged.

You didn't give sh*t for examples except throw out random names.

Cunningham went to three pro bowls before Randy Moss finished middle school… lol.

LOL!! You cannot possibly be this dense. Cunningham went to the Pro Bowl in '88, '89 and '90. He then completely fell off the cliff for the next 7 years. He threw for 1,100 yards total in the 3 seasons before he got Moss. Then with Moss he found the fountain of youth in his 14th season and had the best year of his career.

In his first 13 seasons, Cunningham's best QB rating was 91.6 (which is the only time he ever broke 90). Then in his 14th year when he got Moss, his QB rating was 106.0.

Night and day, my friend, night and day.

Giving Diggs credit for Allen’s improvement is the height of ignorance, the ball travels in one direction… QB>WR… not the other way around.

That statement right there might just be the height of ignorance.

Seriously.... I have an honest question.... do you even watch football?

 

[XLIX]

Brady USED to be able to win super bowls with Edelman and bunch of smurfs,

That might be the first time someone referred to Rob Gronkowski as a "smurf"...

But hey, you're the ignorant moron that thought Brady only targeted Gronk 2 times per game last year, so I guess this is par for the course....

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That might be the first time someone referred to Rob Gronkowski as a "smurf"...

In 2016 he didn't play at the SB. In 2018 he was a shell of himself. As a "Patriots" fan, you should know this...

But hey, you're the ignorant moron that thought Brady only targeted Gronk 2 times per game last year, so I guess this is par for the course....

It's called a typo...get over it.

 

[Wozzy]

You mean the same stats that you haven't posted either? If you have a counter point to make, feel free to make it.

Josh Allen sucked his first 2 years. I gave support for that statement. You haven't given a single thing.

Here, explain how Allen didn't get better every season since his rookie season. Or how it's controversial to say players get better after their rookie season... lol.

Fan forums... the only place on the planet where common sense doesn't apply when one has a point to make.

You didn;t give sh*t for examples except throw out random names.

LOL!! You cannot possibly be this dense. Cunningham went to the Pro Bowl in '88, '89 and '90. He then completely fell off the cliff for the next 7 years. He threw for 1,100 yards total in the 3 seasons before he got Moss. Then with Moss he found the fountain of youth in his 14th season and had the best year of his career.

You said Moss made Cunningham good... he went to three pro bowls. Stafford's didn't suck, he was a good QB on a bad team. Nobody is disputing better teams around a QB make him better, you said Diggs addition made Josh Allen a better QB. It wouldn't have mattered at all if Allen hadn't already taken the steps to improve in the two years prior to Diggs. Yeah he has better weapons, he has better play calling no doubt... he also improved immensely as an individual. Pretending he sucked in his first two years and Diggs magically made him better is the only reason we're having this conversation... it's silly.

In his first 13 seasons, Cunningham's best QB rating was 91.6 (which is the only time he ever broke 90). Then in his 14th year when he got Moss, his QB rating was 106.0.

He didn't just get Moss chuckles, he went to an entirely new team. He got Hall Of Fame Chris Carter as well, he also had a Pro Bowl RB in Robert Smith. Better team equals better results... Randy Moss didn't make Cunningham's career as you stated earlier, he had three Pro Bowls under his belt before Moss arrived.

That statement right there might just be the height of ignorance.

Seriously.... I have an honest question.... do you even watch football?

So you're assertion is that WR's throw to QB's... is that right? I have an honest question....are you on drugs?

 

[XLIX]

Here, explain how Allen didn't get better every season since his rookie season.

Looking at the stats you provided, it doesn't seem that he got better from year 3 to year 4. In a longer season he had fewer passing yards, fewer TD's and 50% more interceptions.

It is hilarious how the stats you posted annihilate the point you are trying to make.

Or how it's controversial to say players get better after their rookie season... lol.

Fan forums... the only place on the planet where common sense doesn't apply when one has a point to make.

I never said he didn't get better from year 1 to year 2. But he still wasn't good in year 2.

Here is a question I know you will be too chickensh*t to answer: In which season did Allen make the larger improvement in his performance when compared to the previous year? Year 2 or year 3?

So you're assertion is that WR's throw to QB's... is that right? I have an honest question....are you on drugs?

If that is your interpretation of my statements then you're an even bigger moron than I already believed you to be.

No but seriously.... I have an honest question.... do you even watch football?

 

[Wozzy]

Looking at the stats you provided, it doesn't seem that he got better from year 3 to year 4. In a longer season he had fewer passing yards, fewer TD's and 50% more interceptions.

And?

I never said he didn't get better from year 1 to year 2. But he still wasn't good in year 2.

I never said he was good in year two, I said he got better. Look at the QB Rating on the right, he made a similar jump between years one and two that he did in year three. He was going to improve regardless of whether Diggs was there or not. The same way every rookie QB gets better as time goes on, assuming their team doesn't collapse around them.

Here is a question I know you will be too chickensh*t to answer: In which season did Allen make the larger improvement in his performance when compared to the previous year? Year 2 or year 3?

Almost the same jump in QB rating from years 1-2 as there were in years 2-3... roughly a 20 point jump. The Bills as a team improved around him everywhere beyond just getting Diggs, all his receivers were better, his TE was better.

Randy Moss couldn't make Andrew Walter good, AJ Brown couldn't make Marcus Mariota better, Kirk Cousins stats barely moved when Diggs left... but Diggs is a magical unicorn that fixes bad QB's... laughable.

He's a good receiver, he was taken in the 5th round, he developed into a great receiver in year four... he can't make bad good.

If that is your interpretation of my statements then you're an even bigger moron than I already believed you to be.

No but seriously.... I have an honest question.... do you even watch football?

You think bad QB's will suddenly be good if a great weapon is given to them... which again, explains how people said Randy Moss was washed up in Oakland... then he put up the single greatest season by a WR in NFL history the following year.

I just finished up watching training camp about an hour ago, I've been posting about football starting on Boston.com since the internet was invented in the mid-90's... yeah, I watch a little football. I've never seen a bad QB turn good, and for my entire football watching life rookie player's got better as they got more experienced... or they were out of the league quickly.

 

[Bill Lee]

Does a QB not need a good supporting cast?

Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[Bill Lee]

Speaking of "excitement" and the supporting cast:

 

[crawhammer]

What I said was Josh Allen sucked until he got a top flight receiver. If he played in NE, he would still be putting up those same horrible numbers.

If the Patriots and Bills swapped quarterbacks then New England would win the division.

Brady USED to be able to win super bowls with Edelman and bunch of smurfs, but not anymore...he needs weapons. Hence, why he does a lot of recruiting of older vets like Julio and Rudolph.

You're basing this on what? That he won his last Super Bowl with an excellent supporting cast? That's idiotic. Also last season Brady made it work with Evans and rubbish at WR... they lost that playoff game because miraculously they forgot about Kupp when he was virtually the only one they should have been paying attention to.

Here’s what I wrote about Jackson before the draft when jokers like you were clamoring for the Pats to draft him:

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold.
He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl.
Vick has a career 56% completion rate, his career win/loss record is 61-51, he averaged over 2.5 INT's per game... people think he was good because he was good on Tecmo Bowl or Nintendo, in the real world he appeared in 5 playoff games over 13 seasons.
You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

It’s too late, I’ve already proven to be spot on about who Lamar Jackson is. Dead on correct…

You think that's an accurate assessment? Fool's gold? He was MVP of the ENTIRE LEAGUE! His career completion percentage is 64.1% which ranks 22nd all-time and is literally 0.1% below Brady's career percentage. His TD% of 6.3% is 7th best all-time, tied with 4x MVP Aaron Rodgers. He averages 6.0 yards per rushing attempt which is 3rd best all-time. He's VERY good. Certainly not the fraud you cast him out to be.

ans and media were calling Allen a bust his first two years. You used your own QB rankings as a point of reference above and didn’t highlight that they were in fact your rankings. Mac is going to be much improved this year, any additional weapons added will only add to that.

There's a lot of implying here that Jones will be better than Allen within due time. It's wishful thinking at best. Allen is a legit perennial league MVP candidate for the next decade. That's going to be above Mac's class.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You're basing this on what? That he won his last Super Bowl with an excellent supporting cast? That's idiotic. Also last season Brady made it work with Evans and rubbish at WR... they lost that playoff game because miraculously they forgot about Kupp when he was virtually the only one they should have been paying attention to.

Now you are changing the goal posts. Brady DIDN'T make it work last year with Evans and Gronk against the Rams...despite hearing all year long that Tommy would turn guys like Cyril Grayson into all-stars. It turns out that he can't win super bowls without great weapons around him. There's a reason why he's recruiting Rudolph and Julio and why he recruited Gronk, AB, and Fournette two years earlier. He knows he can't win without average receivers outside of Bill's system...

 

[Kasmir]

Brady USED to be able to win super bowls with Edelman and bunch of smurfs, but not anymore...he needs weapons. Hence, why he does a lot of recruiting of older vets like Julio and Rudolph.

Edelman plus Gronk. At Tampa, he inherited the best pair of receivers he had ever worked with, then recruited Gronk, AB, and Fournette (the first good all down back he had played with). And Tampa had an excellent defense. No wonder they won it all despite Coach Riscuit Biscuit.