Paul Perillo Made an Excellent Point on Mac vs. Zappe

[upstater1]

I think Perillo is right with a lot of this.

How do you play when you're down 2 scores to the Ravens and need to throw? The defense knows you're throwing.

It's a lot easier for a QB to play from in front.

That being said, I don't agree with Curran that we know Zappe can't do it.

I'm still open to the idea that Zappe processes faster and is more willing to dump the ball off quicker.

My critique of Mac Jones this year and last is that he's so unwilling to move off his primaries to dump the ball off for YAC. Mac might have permanent burn in from Alabama where they went downfield so much, and he was highly successful doing that.

Now--I am not comparing Mac to Peyton manning, but for the 1st 2/3rds of his career, Manning looked downfield a lot, and got burned a lot.nWhen Manning started going short and dumping it off, he became practically unstoppable. He really was one of the greatest QBs in the latter 3rd of his career. He went to the open guy and stopped forcing it

 

[upstater1]

Muppet Show Waldorf Perillo may have a point. I'll concede the possibility of the coaching staff asking Mac to do more/greater level of difficulty than Zappe. Fine.

Doesn't change the fact that they've been winning and Zappe has been getting better and better in the process.

Also doesn't change the fact that maybe Mac can't be that explosive AND efficient QB they want him to be. Maybe he is who he is (which I was totally fine with).

If that is true, then who is the better QB running the more conservative offense? Who is the better QB for the team? Who is the QB the team plays harder for?

That is the real question.

But the Mac lost to the Ravens and Dolphins at Miami.

So...

I'm not putting huge emphasis on who is winning or losing at this point.

It's too early.

Much easier to win against some teams.

 

[203Pat]

How did Mac's performance against Baltimore get inflated into this "Did you see what he did?!?" game? Yes he scrambled a bit and made some plays with his legs but he also threw three picks and easily could have been four. For some reason over the past 3 weeks this game has gone from a disappointing Mac performance to something that Zappe couldn't do. I think if we pulled the training wheels off Zappe and let him chuck the ball all over the place he could throw for over 300 and turn the ball over a bunch too.

 

[p8ryts]

For the TL;DW crowd he basically says that at the beginning of the year the Pats were trying to become more explosive because Bill knows we need that to compete with the class of the AFC and with that comes more mistakes. He doesn't absolve Mac for the mistakes that he made during that time, but he does point out they haven't tried anything like that with Zappe, and that's a lot of the reason why Zappe looks better.

It's degree of difficulty, and this is what I have been thinking since Zappe started playing. OF COURSE Zappe hasn't made the same mistakes as Mac because he hasn't been asked to do the things Mac was early in the season. Zappe has basically been asked to do what Mac did last year.

What is it that Zappe is not doing?

 

[Rob0729]

Analytics are garbage.

You take what the defense gives you and the stats work out to be whatever they want to.

Analytics is nothing but math nerds who are sport's fans staring into the abyss and finding the pre-existing outcome they went looking for.

Yeah, stats in football are very misleading. I remember a few weeks ago based on the stats alone, Carson Wentz was one of the best QBs in football this year. And I think think people get too cute coming up with these advanced analytics that wows the people who follow them and really don't mean crap.

 

[catent]

Thank you, at least for that.



This is a public Internet football message board where people argue, kvetch and bolster differences of opinion with informed reasoning backed by factual evidence. Those capable of objective reasoning learn that way. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but when an opinion lacks "fundamental validity" it risks being discredited. What you're doing is entering a discussion with a faulty opinion and then whining because it was challenged. If you want to avoid that just keep it to yourself. I mean this with the kindest intent possible.

Do you always agree with these pundits? Do you always take their opinion as unconditional fact? Some of the same pundits who, at times, have lambasted Belichick. Some of the same pundits who've previously said Patricia can't coach offense.

A better question: Are these pundits always right, all the time? The obvious answer is "no". Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, often they disagree with each other and there's plenty of grey-area in between.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I actually thought the same thing UNTIL yesterday. Outside of one run our ground game was doing nothing. Zappe wasnt a game manager yesterday, he was actually carrying the load offensively and threw for over 300 yards with ZERO bad throws. That doesn’t mean mac shouldn’t get another chance when healthy, he absolutely should. But zappe has been better hands down.

The only real argument you can make here is the playcalling has been mostly better and more imaginative lately. We are doing alot more playaction (which many of us were pining for early on) and those have been incredibly effective for zappe.

 

[203Pat]

I don't know about anyone else but I say ride the hot hand. Maybe the wheels fall off at some point but he isn't throwing the ball to the other team on a regular basis the way Mac does. If we could just make sure Wynn doesn't let Zappe's head get taken off I think that would cut down on the fumbles as well.

 

[jah]

If the guy on the radio with CTE and a minimum BAC at any given time of .10 says Mac Jones throwing into double coverage is Parker's fault, it is. Simple as that.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah, stats in football are very misleading. I remember a few weeks ago based on the stats alone, Carson Wentz was one of the best QBs in football this year. And I think think people get too cute coming up with these advanced analytics that wows the people who follow them and really don't mean crap.

Football isn't so difficult it requires advanced math to understand.

It's blocking, tackling, fundamentals... it's about creating mismatches and being able to defend them.

There's no need to overthink this, Zappe looks better than Mac looked last year.

Mac threw seven interceptions over the last five games last season.

This isn't a 2022 problem, this isn't because "they're trusting him more"... it's carryover from last year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know about anyone else but I say ride the hot hand. Maybe the wheels fall off at some point but he isn't throwing the ball to the other team on a regular basis the way Mac does. If we could just make sure Wynn doesn't let Zappe's head get taken off I think that would cut down on the fumbles as well.

 

[Fuzz]

Throughout all of preseason, the consensus was that the entire offense was a mess. The “new” offense would take at least a few games to come together. Why are we now surprised that the offense is playing better? Zappe didn’t just come in and fix everything himself (although he has performed admirably). The team is just starting to figure out what works and what doesn’t, just like it does every year. The change at QB was not a primary factor. If Mac comes back and the offense regresses, then it becomes more interesting. I don’t expect that to happen.

 

[Rob0729]

Football isn't so difficult it requires advanced math to understand.

It's blocking, tackling, fundamentals... it's about creating mismatches and being able to defend them.

There's no need to overthink this, Zappe looks better than Mac looked last year.

Mac threw seven interceptions over the last five games last season.

This isn't a 2022 problem, this isn't because they're trusting him more... it's carryover from last year.

I don't hold the end of a rookie season on a rookie. Most rookies hit a rookie wall. And let's face it, the defense was so awful down the stretch that they had Jones trying to huck it around in garbage time.

And Zappe hasn't been tested yet. It takes a good month or more for teams to develop a book on a new QB. When teams actually start game planning specifically for a QB is when you really start to see how good they are. I said the same thing about Mac Jones last year.

 

[Rob0729]

Throughout all of preseason, the consensus was that the entire offense was a mess. The “new” offense would take at least a few games to come together. Why are we now surprised that the offense is playing better? Zappe didn’t just come in and fix everything himself (although he has performed admirably). The team is just starting to figure out what works and what doesn’t, just like it does every year. The change at QB was not a primary factor. If Mac comes back and the offense regresses, then it becomes more interesting. I don’t expect that to happen.

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don't agree that the change at QB wasn't a primary factor. Just not the way many people are saying. The loss of Jones forced Patricia to scrap a lot of the more complicated down the field high risk, high reward type of stuff and go back to what the Pats historically has done best which is more basic. They have thrown in a lot of play action for the kid because they have become a run first team which they weren't doing for Mac.

But yes, the team overall is getting better which would have happened even if Jones didn't get hurt. It would look different, but the offense would be significantly better than it was when the season started especially with the weak schedule.

 

[Tunescribe]

Do you always agree with these pundits? Do you always take their opinion as unconditional fact? Some of the same pundits who, at times, have lambasted Belichick. Some of the same pundits who've previously said Patricia can't coach offense.

A better question: Are these pundits always right, all the time? The obvious answer is "no". Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, often they disagree with each other and there's plenty of grey-area in between.

On an individual basis they can be fallible, some less than others. But in aggregate they're very reliable in helping establish a mosaic of what's REALLY going on. Unless one has firsthand experience playing or coaching in the NFL, info from expert sources is indispensable.

 

[PatsFan2]

How about the team's two best WR's Meyers and Thornton were mostly absent for Mac? And Bourne was benched.

It's tough to look good with Parker, Aggie, and Lil Jordan as your big three.

Excuses mexmuses Parker and Aggie are former First Rounders the latter is overpaid for what he does.

 

[pats99]

The timing for Zappe was ideal. Mac Jones and offensive struggles started all the way back in preseason when they were shoving that zone offense down their throats and as a quarterback he was the face of that awful offense at the time. Wasn't it just three weeks ago that Patricia with very little experience as an OC was getting butchered for his play calling. Now six weeks into the season, play calling is better, the offensive line is better (Wynn still killing me !!), .. the entire team is playing better. I think Mac Jones deserves the chance to start again once healthy, if for any other reason than to better be able to compare the QBs.
And no, I am not diminishing Zappe's play in any way. He is a winner ...

 

[BTTA]

You have no idea what the coaches think unless you're inside that building.

Yes, and we'd need to be even more specific about the geography. Most of the people in that building don't know what the coaches think. I'd wager there are maybe a dozen who actually know.

 

[BTTA]

I hope they sit Mac out the next couple of weeks, and Zappe plays out of his friggin' mind, wins a couple more games.
Then reinstate Mac, and he plays out of his friggin' mind, continues the winning streak.
Then in the off season, trade Zappe to Houston for all their top picks in the next three years.

 

[Ivan]

There's a reason for that.

Mac turning it over is the biggest reason we lost those early games.

He was also trying to bring them back, especially against the Ravens. I’m not excusing the Int’s, but context is important. As far as the offense goes it is clearly a work in progress on every level, from coaching to QB and every unit on it. The run game is looking good, but the OL has to cut the penalties out. The passing game is improving, but still a long way from where it will need to to seriously compete in the playoffs. And both QB’s have to keep improving, and I think the competition will push that going forward.