Paul Perillo Made an Excellent Point on Mac vs. Zappe

[Tunescribe]

Still don't buy it.

This isn't a Brissett game-plan against Houston they're giving Zappe. He's getting into/out of plays at the LOS, identifying free rushers, throwing the ball downfield (although he has yet to connect on a true deep shot). A pass of his against Detroit travelled 50 yards in the air before dropping (it fell incomplete, but it was a pretty deep pass).

Baltimore is used as the example of the offense's potential under Jones - he threw eight passes of 20+ yards that game. Zappe, against Cleveland, threw six passes of 20+ yards, for a total of 300+ yards and 2 TDs ... you don't do that with a limited game-plan and training wheels on.

And even putting aside what I think is a weak argument re: game-plan to explain Zappe's success, the fact of the matter is that his pocket presence, field vision, and poise cannot be game-planned or handheld.

It really boggles my mind to hear take-after-take-after-take undermining Zappe's performance to this point. It seems to me that a lot of people aren't able to pickup on the nuances of playing the QB position and identify the subtle (but critically important) traits that make for really good QBs. It's only 2-3 games, but Zappe has demonstrated some legitimately high quality QB play.

In saying you "still don't buy it," you're claiming to possess greater insight than Perillo, Zolak, Ted Johnson, Curran, Bedard, Perry and Breer. Nobody is "undermining" Zappe's performance. They're just TELLING IT LIKE IT IS.

 

[Triumph]

The Pats season high in passing yards is Mac's 302 against the Ravens.

Yesterday Zappe threw for 301... do we get fewer style points because he didn't throw downfield as much?

Does the NFL dock us points for not being exciting enough?

Winning is the only thing that matters.

Making better decisions is the exact reason I said Mac should be benched midway through the Ravens game for Hoyer... long before "Zappe fever" was a thing.

I don't care if Mac starts next week, if he makes poor decisions again he'll get yanked quickly.

Mac was dynamic.

Zappe has no style.

 

[Triumph]

Dan Orlofsky says that there is no debate at NE QB.

Mac is "ELITE" case closed.

 

[catent]

In saying you "still don't buy it," you're claiming to possess greater insight than Perillo, Zolak, Ted Johnson, Curran, Bedard, Perry and Breer. Nobody is "undermining" Zappe's performance. They're just TELLING IT LIKE IT IS.

No, I'm claiming to have a different opinion of what I've watched than them.

Stop gatekeeping people from having a different opinion.

 

[Wozzy]

Mac was dynamic.

Zappe has no style.

The same way Tom wasn't as dynamic as Drew Bledsoe.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Muppet Show Waldorf Perillo may have a point. I'll concede the possibility of the coaching staff asking Mac to do more/greater level of difficulty than Zappe. Fine.

Doesn't change the fact that they've been winning and Zappe has been getting better and better in the process.

Also doesn't change the fact that maybe Mac can't be that explosive AND efficient QB they want him to be. Maybe he is who he is (which I was totally fine with).

If that is true, then who is the better QB running the more conservative offense? Who is the better QB for the team? Who is the QB the team plays harder for?

That is the real question.

Mac never got to play with Tyquan Thornton who is a game changer explosive playmaker in this offense with 4.2 speed

 

[catent]

For all the people claiming Zappe has been babysat and isn't being asked to throw the ball downfield, or do much in general, here you go:

Zappe's average depth of target against Cleveland was 4.9 yards, which was sixth highest in week 6.

For comparison, Trubisky came in first with 7.9; Josh Allen second with 5.7; Rodgers tenth with 4.1; Mahomes twelfth with 3.8.

As for the whole season, Jones comes in third highest at 5.5 in the three games he has played. Zappe comes in eighth highest in his three games, at 4.9.

So both Patriots QBs are throwing the ball downfield at a higher than average rate compared to the rest of the league, including Zappe.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The same way Tom wasn't as dynamic as Drew Bledsoe.

That’s Bs. Tom threw a beautiful ball and his college tape was terrific. His arm was grossly underrated by college scouts because the Michigan coach tried to replace him with drew “ba ba black sheep” Henson

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac never got to play with Tyquan Thornton who is a game changer explosive playmaker in this offense with 4.2 speed

That is true

 

[Rob0729]

I said in the post game thread that I didn't get why the Pats didn't start the season with the offense looking like it was yesterday in terms of play calling and then phase in the some of the stuff they tried with Mac right away this season (a lot of 50-50 passes, zone running, more of a vertical offense).

It seems like they are working backwards. They started the season with a very complicated offense and then pared it down because of the situation. I think Patricia may end up benefitting most from the Zappe games. I think this forced him to not to force stuff on this team that it isn't ready for. He still is calling bad plays at times, but he is coming into his own.

I still think Belichick will go with Jones once he is healthy enough to play. It may be best for him to play next week against Chicago rather than his first game back being against the Jets which has had a surprisingly good defense the last few weeks. With Zappe performing like he is, Jones will have a shorter leash though.

But I want to see Jones play in the offense Patricia called the last two weeks. That offense plays into Jones' strengths. In college, Jones was a great play action and RPO QB, but Patricia only called play action plays for Jones about 10% of time this year. Zappe is doing closer to 40% of the time. The outside zone running the Pats did the first two or three weeks was a disaster. Since Jones went down, they went back to running between the tackles and it has been a resounding success (well, yesterday it wasn't except for one big run from Stevenson).

Curran is right in that Zappe could never perform well in the offense that Jones ran the first three games. Not a knock at Zappe, but a rookie with no game experience couldn't run that type of offense right off the bat. Maybe a generational talent could. But Zappe has yet to show he can throw the deep ball never mind a deep 50-50 ball. And again, I want to see how Jones can perform in this offense.

 

[Tunescribe]

No, I'm claiming to have a different opinion of what I've watched than them.

Stop gatekeeping people from having a different opinion.

I'm not "gatekeeping," I'm attempting to lend clarity via a sense of reality to the public discussion under way here. But I guess if you want to insist your OPINION is that the sky is green and grass is blue, knock yourself out.

 

[catent]

I'm not "gatekeeping," I'm attempting to lend clarity via a sense of reality to the public discussion under way here. But I guess if you want to say your opinion is that the sky is green and grass is blue, knock yourself out.

I have caveated my opinion repeatedly by saying it's just that, an opinion. If you want to disagree, fine. I could be wrong about what I think.

Attempting to discredit/undermine the fundamental validity of others' opinions ain't it. I've never told you your opinion is worthless or junk - all I've said is that I disagree and see things differently.

There's a big distinction between "we have different opinions of what we're looking at" - and - "your opinion is faulty and worthless".

Share your own thoughts, allow others to do the same, accept we've seen a few games of football differently, and let's see how things play out.

 

[Ollie]

One thing for me Mac has continually put the ball in harms way often throwing the ball into the hands of a defender with no receiver near. He seems rushed and forces things even against a had ravens D. Zappe has not done that once. One point from the patriots unfiltered post game show. They drafted mac because of his decision making not his physical tools. The same can probably be said for Zappe who is very similar physically but if we are honest has shown better decision making in the last few games. I personally would stick with Zappe until at least the bye week and see it as his job to lose now. Also if mac comes back in and starts playing the way he has so far this year we need to go straight back to Zappe

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't care if Zappe is playing the presechool version of this offense, if that's the case they should stay in preschool. Turnovers are the most important stat in football after points.

We tried the preschool version last year. It did not turn out well.

 

[Wozzy]

That’s Bs. Tom threw a beautiful ball and his college tape was terrific. His arm was grossly underrated by college scouts because the Michigan coach tried to replace him with drew “ba ba black sheep” Henson

What's BS? Zappe throws a beautiful ball and his college tape was terrific. His arm was grossly underrated by college scouts because he played at a small school and only started one season after transferring from junior college.

Kurt Warner came from the Arena League... where you come from doesn't mean dck, only what you do while your here.

 

[Wozzy]

We tried the preschool version last year. It did not turn out well.

Zappe looks far superior to Mac last year... are we going to pretend that isn't relevant?

This "preschool" version of the offense isn't even a real thing.

Zappe is playing the same offense as Mac, he's making multiple reads and making great decisions.

 

[Rob0729]

For all the people claiming Zappe has been babysat and isn't being asked to throw the ball downfield, or do much in general, here you go:

Zappe's average depth of target against Cleveland was 4.9 yards, which was sixth highest in week 6.

For comparison, Trubisky came in first with 7.9; Josh Allen second with 5.7; Rodgers tenth with 4.1; Mahomes twelfth with 3.8.

As for the whole season, Jones comes in third highest at 5.5 in the three games he has played. Zappe comes in eighth highest in his three games, at 4.9.

So both Patriots QBs are throwing the ball downfield at a higher than average rate compared to the rest of the league, including Zappe.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

I don't think that stat measures the way you think. When I looked just now Josh Allen's depth of target is 5.1 yard average pass in the air, not 5.7 as you said. That is lower than Mac Jones. Are you going to say that Mac Jones is a more effective throwing the ball down the field than Josh Allen? In fact, the only two QBs with a higher depth of target than Mac Jones are Jameis Winston and Tua. Not Josh Allen, not Aaron Rodgers, not Brady, not Mahomes, not Burrow, not anyone else. Jones is third in that category.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

We tried the preschool version last year. It did not turn out well.

In the football season of life a preschool education does not cut it when looking for a real job, a.k.a. winning in the playoffs

 

[Wozzy]

For all the people claiming Zappe has been babysat and isn't being asked to throw the ball downfield, or do much in general, here you go:

Zappe's average depth of target against Cleveland was 4.9 yards, which was sixth highest in week 6.

For comparison, Trubisky came in first with 7.9; Josh Allen second with 5.7; Rodgers tenth with 4.1; Mahomes twelfth with 3.8.

As for the whole season, Jones comes in third highest at 5.5 in the three games he has played. Zappe comes in eighth highest in his three games, at 4.9.

So both Patriots QBs are throwing the ball downfield at a higher than average rate compared to the rest of the league, including Zappe.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

Analytics are garbage.

You take what the defense gives you and the stats work out to be whatever they want to.

Analytics is nothing but math nerds who are sport's fans staring into the abyss and finding the pre-existing outcome they went looking for.

 

[Tunescribe]

I have caveated my opinion repeatedly by saying it's just that, an opinion. If you want to disagree, fine. I could be wrong about what I think.

Thank you, at least for that.

Attempting to discredit/undermine the fundamental validity of others' opinions ain't it. Share your own thoughts, allow others to do the same, accept we've seen a few games of football differently, and let's see how things play out.

This is a public Internet football message board where people argue, kvetch and bolster differences of opinion with info backed by factual evidence. Those capable of objective reasoning learn that way. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but when an opinion lacks "fundamental validity" it risks being discredited. What you're doing is entering a discussion with a faulty opinion and then whining because it was challenged. If you want to avoid that just keep it to yourself. I mean this with the kindest intent possible.