Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[patfanken]

They paid a high price for a player that might have been straight released, so I don't see why you're arguing on this point. If the guy helps them win the Super Bowl, nobody's going to care what the cost was. If he busts, the cost will be noted repeatedly. And, with this sort of baggage-involved trade, that's how it should be.

First of all it just supposition on your part that the Bucs were going to release him. On the contrary. all reports have Shiamo being very happy with him. There's a good shot that they might have let him go after the season due the fact he's going to be a big money UFA along with the "character risks" Plus the Pats are in a much better situation to deal with a guy like Talib.

And even if he was released, just because he's released doesn't mean you'd get a chance to get him. 30 teams are ahead of you on the waiver wire, and even if he cleared waivers, you'd now have to compete for his services with 31. Now you have him under contract for the rest of the year for short money, and you have 3 months to see first hand if you want to commit to this kid beyond Feb.

Finally as to the draft pick, in today's NFL, where players can be UFA's in just 4 seasons, do you really think the Pats can't pick up a single FA in next year's class that won't be more impactful than the pick they could have gotten at #130 or later. So as much as I'd love to have as many as possible, the continued success of this franchise is NOT going to ride on whether we have a 4th round pick or not.

 

[supafly]

Not to get too far off topic but you are wrong on that and clearly have never taken Adderall. Amphetamines are potent and in certain doses cause intense euphoric effects often compared to cocaine. If you take too much adderall, you will have a hellish comedown. Nothing like an espresso. There's a reason why it's a schedule II drug.

I couldn't agree more.

Adderall is a somewhat newer fad of sorts, within the past few years for the most part.

It is pure speed. It's an amphetimine obviously. As you said, it's a schedule II drug for a reason, as the schedules are numbered for their potential of abuse.


To put it in layman's terms for those who may not be familiar:

--Adderall is at the very highest of the list for pharmacuetical substances (in other words--not Cocaine, Heroin, etc), in terms of potential of abuse and danger.

Both Vicodin (extremely popular painkiller that is widely abused), and Valium/Xanax are way below it. The painkiller Vicodin is a schedule III, while Valium and Xanax are way below Adderall at schedule IV.

 

[woolster22]

Since your response lacks credibility, I'm thru discussing this subject with you.

Swap first syllables Einstein...

 

[ATippett56]

Really, if either one of Talib or Cole pan out, we're in much better shape than we initially were in my opinion. These moves also stengthen the tendency to play press man coverage in a more physical sense from a coverage perspective, thus allowing for more pressure from our front seven players.

As of today, one can not really say with 100% certainty that press man coverage is the solution, cover two is the solution, or cover three is the solution. Furthermore, whether Devin McCourty is a safety or cornerback going forward remains to be seen.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

I couldn't agree more.

Adderall is a somewhat newer fad of sorts, within the past few years for the most part.

It is pure speed. It's an amphetimine obviously. As you said, it's a schedule II drug for a reason, as the schedules are numbered for their potential of abuse.


To put it in layman's terms for those who may not be familiar:

--Adderall is at the very highest of the list for pharmacuetical substances (in other words--not Cocaine, Heroin, etc), in terms of potential of abuse and danger.

Both Vicodin (extremely popular painkiller that is widely abused), and Valium/Xanax are way below it. The painkiller Vicodin is a schedule III, while Valium and Xanax are way below Adderall at schedule IV.

And to top it off, it is a very accessible drug that is commonly prescribed. What's a bit sad is that I know some people who sell it, all of whom have a prescription and don't even have a medical condition. It pisses me off because they are making some serious bank off it. $4-5 per 20mg tablet and they get like 90 a month.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Tampa Bay had a bye week in week 5. This is Talib's second bye week this season ...... this week may count against his suspension because Tampa plays this week. As such, he'd be cleared to play for our next game. In fact on Monday, November 5th, he could start practicing. I'm not positive of this, I'm thinking out loud.

From an article regarding his suspension:

"Talib’s suspension begins immediately. He will be eligible to return to the Bucs on Monday, November 5, after the November 4 game against the Raiders."

 

[supafly]

Tampa Bay had a bye week in week 5. This is Talib's second bye week this season ...... this week may count against his suspension because Tampa plays this week. As such, he'd be cleared to play for our next game. In fact on Monday, November 5th, he could start practicing. I'm not positive of this, I'm thinking out loud.

From an article regarding his suspension:

"Talib’s suspension begins immediately. He will be eligible to return to the Bucs on Monday, November 5, after the November 4 game against the Raiders."

The NFL released a statement regarding the situation today. I don't have a link but you can find it on profootballtalk.com.

Basically, the NFL claimed that he needs to miss 4 'games,' not 4 'weeks.'

In other words, it's a definite that he will not be eligible for the NEP/BUF game next Sunday in week 10, but we can have him ready for week 11 the following Sunday.

 

[woolster22]

I'm not necessarily sure that I would see it the same as you are, but that's not to say that I am right either.

I personally think that the lack of safety play (coverage specifically) makes the odds a lot lower of there being adequate CB play on many reps. Proper safety help and correct coverage/assignments go a long way in making everything better for both corners and safeties. I think we have seen a lack of decent safety play, so hopefully McCourty's presence back there will continue to make a positive difference.

When you have a combo of ALL of the following things are not looking too good:

--both starting safeties hurt and out for multiple games

--Chung completely sucking in coverage

--Gregory being new to the system and not playing up to speed

--T.Wilson = a rookie who is still learning and repeating mistakes

--N.Ebner shouldn't be seeing any live game reps on defense unless the game has already been decided

Those 5 factors certainly contribute to poor safety play, as the final line of defense is extremely important in many ways and negatively effects the entire coverage issues of the secondary.

Not only that, but the CB play has also been below average too, with guys like Arrington, Moore, and McCourty not playing too well on a consistent enough basis.

Those are the 2 big variables to me, not necessarily coaching.

Fair enough. What I'm getting at is these two possessions should in theory be where coaching, or being out coached, would show most prominently. Is the secondary in shambles? Certainly. Does this move provide flexibility to allow two young athletic, tool possessing athletes to gain experience, reps, and ultimately confidence? In theory, yes. Either that or dennard/McCourty or both get beaten line a drum until this season ends (Hell, maybe both in a bunch of plays if this really back fires).

McCourty looks like a safety. Period. He can't turn his head while in coverage. Period. Either start him looking for the ball or wait for the flag shower to begin. Dennard located the ball and makes a play. If he is beaten badly, he guesses, as McCourty does on ninety percent of balls his way. This leads me to coaching. Wr hands come out, face guard and slap the instant you see leather would seem to be what's instructed these days.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deuce mod...when you hit 30k...whether it was joking or legit I recall people panicking about your mod potential for much of what you are displaying here right now. So again...

So, basically, you were just spouting off about nothing. Got it.

 

[ATippett56]

Well sure, but we also lose a 4th rounder in the process. That also happens to be next year when we already lacked a 5th and a 6th, so now there are no picks in rounds 4, 5, and 6. That makes it quite a large gamble of sorts.

Re-setting Pats' 2013 draft picks - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[woolster22]

As of today, one can't not really say with 100% certainty that press man coverage is the solution, cover two is the solution, or cover three is the solution. Furthermore, whether Devin McCourty is a safety or cornerback going forward remains to be seen.

It does remain to be seen. I think many would agree that Talib seems to possess man skills, dennard seems to possess man skills, and the rest of the secondary hasn't proved anything beyond borderline incompetence.

McCourty seems more comfortable and natural at safety. I'm surprised there is any argument there at all. Whether his dvoa (thanks baseball!) at safety vs. cb is higher or not remains to be declared by BB as to where he lines up.

 

[woolster22]

So, basically, you were just spouting off about nothing. Got it.

Spikes, Thomas, draft, secondary...didn't think so.

Is your profession politics?

...Ian, any way you can get the ignore feature over to tapatalk?

 

[patfanken]

Well sure, but we also lose a 4th rounder in the process. That also happens to be next year when we already lacked a 5th and a 6th, so now there are no picks in rounds 4, 5, and 6. That makes it quite a large gamble of sorts.

One thing I do like about this move is that they are at least attempting to go "all in" this year, which I at least have to give them credit for.

Another thought is that they are attempting to solve an obvious area of weakness in a different manner, rather than continue to waste draft picks on college CB's. They at least attempted to grab someone who has proven NFL experience.

There are certainly some good qualities to this trade, but there is a big gamble too.

Like I've said before sup, expanded Free Agency mitigates some of the pain of the few lost draft picks from the mid to low rounds this year. Don't you think that the Pats won't be able to find a moderately priced UFA who isn't a better prospect than the rookie they could get at 130?

Plus there is a lot that can happen between now and next April and BB has a lot of friends around the league. Next year the Pats are going to have Ridley, Boldin, Vereen, and Demps back on the roster just for starters at RB...and that doesn't consider the possibility of bringing back Woody. Maybe there's a RB that someone might like for a 6th.

Last season BB started the 2nd day with 2 players in his pocket and 2 more picks left He then turned those 2 picks into 5 more players before he was done, so the Pats having just 6 picks next year is just a starting point in the April world of BB. Who know know how many he'll wind up with before its over.

The draft is certainly the most economical way for a team to build, but its not the only way, especially in the short term. The Pats have invested heavily in the draft over the last 4 season, and have been very successful in 3 of those years

Because the rookie contract period has shrunk from 6 to 4 years over the last decade, each UFA class will have more quality players available than ever before. And because there are so many of them the market will be suppressed a bit, (especially after you get passed the few high end guys). So while they will cost marginally more than draft picks, these FA add value because you've taken out a lot of the costs and risks out of player development

Bottom Line. Losing that pick is a bg deal but so is gaining the player. And while losing that 4th round pick can be viewed as a "big deal", its not THAT "big a deal"

 

[ATippett56]

Tampa Bay had a bye week in week 5. This is Talib's second bye week this season ...... this week may count against his suspension because Tampa plays this week. As such, he'd be cleared to play for our next game. In fact on Monday, November 5th, he could start practicing. I'm not positive of this, I'm thinking out loud.

From an article regarding his suspension:

"Talib’s suspension begins immediately. He will be eligible to return to the Bucs on Monday, November 5, after the November 4 game against the Raiders."

Thanks to bye, Talib’s suspension grows from four weeks to five | ProFootballTalk

 

[DaBruinz]

To address all the posts saying Talib and Spikes tested positive for Adderall....the NFL can't disclose which drugs a player tested positive for so the Adderall stuff is coming from the players or their agents. Do you really think all these players (Haden included) are risking hundreds of thousands of dollars to take freaking Adderall? Do you really think they all made the same mistake?

IMO there's a 99% chance these guys were all taking some form of Steroids or masking agent. They're just saying it was Adderall because that is a better PR move.

If anyone has a counter argument to this theory let me know.

You really shouldn't toss garbage out that could be considered slanderous. Fact is that it is KNOWN that Spikes had a script for Adderall and he disclosed it at the Combine. The problem came from not filling out the proper paperwork with the league once the contract was signed.

As for Haden's situation, you don't know what it is, so why speculate. There are leaks all the time. Haden could have been taking it but just not had an approved prescription from the NFL.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Ted Washington NT rented for a 4th, Pats went from worst run D in 2002 and won the 203 SB

Good point. The similarities appear to be there.
IMHO, IF -- and that's a ??? at this point -- Talib performs as a 10-19 type CB, the Patriots just made their odds of winning the SB as good as anyone in the AFC. Put another way, look at our losses this year. Now look at what aspect of the Patriots' performance in those games was most poor (pass defense). Now add in a 10-19 performing CB to those games. The result has a high probability of equaling the Patriots being 8-0 right now.

Just like the year Washington was added, this addition doesn't guarantee a thing. The Patriots will still need to pull out some tough-extremely close wins, get a break here and there, perform well when absolutely needed. Yet how many things need to go right just got smaller...IF Talib proves to be a 10-19 CB. Bottom line, the Patriots require only a modest improvement in their secondary to sufficiently compliment the stronger parts of the team.

 

[Deus Irae]

Spikes, Thomas, draft, secondary...didn't think so.

Is your profession politics?

You jumped into a conversation, didn't bother knowing what was going on, attacked me personally, and then brought something up (the 'danger' of me as a mod) that had nothing to do with anything being discussed. Yes, that's spouting off about nothing.

...Ian, any way you can get the ignore feature over to tapatalk?

Of course, this conversation between us never needed to happen. You chose to make the personal attack against me when I'd not mentioned you, alluded to you, or responded to you. If either of us should be using ignore on the other, it's me who should be using it on you. In fact, I think that's where this will go.

Ciao.

 

[DaBruinz]

Are you bleepin kidding me!? Our secondary sucks but this thug definitely is NOT the answer. He's nothing special as a db and a very bad dude. Like criminally bad.

Except that he's never had charges actually pressed against him. So there goes that whole spiel.

Did you ever stop to think he might have had an anger management problem and that he's been dealing with it? He HAS been out of trouble since the incident with his sister's boyfriend in 2011.

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually he'll have over 2 weeks to get acclimated since he isn't coming back until AFTER the Buffalo game
BTW- to give it some prospective, its more likely that the comp pick we get for Welker will be higher than the one we lost for Talib... (just a year later) And who knows. Maybe we'll get something for Anderson. (boy I bet he can't be too happy about THAT decision.....except those days he visits the bank.)

EDIT: I see that Florio has said that the league claimed that Talib has to miss the Buffalo game and that Bedard parroted him. However, until the league actually says something to the Pats (aka the Pats make the announcement) I'll hold out hope that Talib won't have to miss the Buffalo game.

 

[randomk1]

Can someobody clarify this. We're basically paying a 4th rounder for 7 games+ playoffs from Talib?

What's the price for a player like that in FA?