Pats extend Ja'Whaun Bentley, two years, $18.75 Million

[RobertWeathers]

Bob Sanders was amazing. The difference between when he played and when he didn't was night and day -- very few other non-QBs made such a difference. Injuries got him in the end, but he was one of the greats.

I've said this before but in the games Bob Sanders played the Dolts allowed almost 3 fewer points per game and 19 less yards (run and pass). Turnovers forced per game also were up by almost a 1/2 a game.

Aside from guys like Lawrence Taylor he was the most impactful defensive player since.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Highly doubt it'll happen but there is just something about Mapu.....

 

[50-yard-line]

Nobody has said the offense doesnt contribute to the losses. Again, theyre 1-11 over the last 2 years against qbs id consider the better in the league at the time of playing. Is that a coincidence? Maybe

In the 7 games in my sample from earlier they allowed 28.2 PPG
in the 10 games against lesser qbs they allowed 14.9 PPG

That was very much not a meaningless game at kickoff, we can also just look at their play against the Bills the last 2 years if you dont like last year?

So does the context matter when they dominate back up qbs? Doesnt seem like it

I agree with you overall about their defense, this year they are playing a ton of great qbs as it appears, so its something worth talking about.

Green bay was not a top offense last year. They gave up fewer points to Tua (who's not a top QB) than to his replacement in the game they won later in the year. neither is Cousins, who you included in your list.
And sure, they're not as good against better teams, which is why those are better teams. but it's still cherry-picked. And the Bills games were near the end of the year - look at who was playing in the Pats Secondary both of the last couple of years. The Bills D also slammed the Pats and caused turnovers.
The pats are not (or haven't been since 2018) elite - to me, that rests solely on the offense, which is expected given their cap-clearing needs after extending the run until it went dry, and rookie QB blues. I'm not sure they have "the guy" even now. We'll see. if their offense becomes top 10, they have a good shot at going on a run, which is REMARKABLE, given how much they sacrificed in draft and contract and duct tape (to keep players like Edelman together) capital to get the 2014-19 run.
If Jones steps up and they don't get injury slammed, they shouldn't be an easy out for anyone.

 

[All3Phases]

Green bay was not a top offense last year. They gave up fewer points to Tua (who's not a top QB) than to his replacement in the game they won later in the year. neither is Cousins, who you included in your list.

I included the 7 quarterbacks who I considered very good in 2022 or had a history of being very good/elite

And sure, they're not as good against better teams, which is why those are better teams. but it's still cherry-picked. And the Bills games were near the end of the year - look at who was playing in the Pats Secondary both of the last couple of years. The Bills D also slammed the Pats and caused turnovers.

Agree, like I said before, Im not expecting them to dominate every game or be just as good playing against Lamar vs playing against Zach Wilson...But if you want to be competitive, they have to play well against the good quarterbacks at some point, you can say that stat is cherry picked, I say its their sample against the teams that are in their weight class or above that they need to compete with if they want to win super bowls, because thats still the standard imo.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bob Sanders was amazing. The difference between when he played and when he didn't was night and day -- very few other non-QBs made such a difference. Injuries got him in the end, but he was one of the greats.

His reckless kamikaze style is what ruined his career. He played the game like someone was controlling him in Madden launching himself at players or the pile of players.

 

[The Trickster]

I included the 7 quarterbacks who I considered very good in 2022 or had a history of being very good/elite

Agree, like I said before, Im not expecting them to dominate every game or be just as good playing against Lamar vs playing against Zach Wilson...But if you want to be competitive, they have to play well against the good quarterbacks at some point, you can say that stat is cherry picked, I say its their sample against the teams that are in their weight class or above that they need to compete with if they want to win super bowls, because thats still the standard imo.

And their ability to play well against the elite QB's is partly contingent on their own offense playing well by extending drives and not turning the ball over. That reduces the time said elite QB is on the field and also keeps the Pat's Defense fresher by not being on the field all day. This seems like a simple concept. Complimentary football.

 

[All3Phases]

And their ability to play well against the elite QB's is partly contingent on their own offense playing well by extending drives and not turning the ball over. That reduces the time said elite QB is on the field and also keeps the Pat's Defense fresher by not being on the field all day. This seems like a simple concept. Complimentary football.

Like you said, partly contingent. Everything is partly contingent on something, so when Wozzy says theyre the 3rd best defense in the league...Thats partly contingent on them playing Zach Wilson and 8 other backup qbs. How large of a sample do you need until 1-11 is just what they have been over the last 2 seasons? They allow 28 ppg vs the good qbs and 14 vs the bad ones. Massive difference

 

[Wozzy]

Like you said, partly contingent. Everything is partly contingent on something, so when Wozzy says theyre the 3rd best defense in the league...Thats partly contingent on them playing Zach Wilson and 8 other backup qbs. How large of a sample do you need until 1-11 is just what they have been over the last 2 seasons? They allow 28 ppg vs the good qbs and 14 vs the bad ones. Massive difference

They held Joe Burrow’s Bengals to the 4th lowest scoring game of the 2022 season and intercepted him twice.

No defense in the league plays a top five QB every week, there are pushovers in every division.

You’re f-ing clueless… but you have boundless energy to post and think that’s the same thing as knowledge.

 

[The Trickster]

Like you said, partly contingent. Everything is partly contingent on something, so when Wozzy says theyre the 3rd best defense in the league...Thats partly contingent on them playing Zach Wilson and 8 other backup qbs. How large of a sample do you need until 1-11 is just what they have been over the last 2 seasons? They allow 28 ppg vs the good qbs and 14 vs the bad ones. Massive difference

hahaha

OMG has anyone ever accused you of being stubborn and thick headed.?
I must say I admire your tenacity.

But please take a minute to consider the argument being made on the other side.
Great defenses with terrible offenses will never perform as well as when their own offense cobbles up time of possession.
The vast majority of pundits (while not as knowledgeable as you) believe the Pats had a very good defense last year and will likely have a better one this year.

Over and out.
Go Pats.

 

[All3Phases]

They held Joe Burrow’s Bengals to the 4th lowest scoring game of the 2022 season and intercepted him twice.

No defense in the league plays a top five QB every week, there are pushovers in every division.

You’re f-ing clueless… but you have boundless energy to post and think that’s the same thing as knowledge.

Maybe if you post that first line one more time your rebuttal will have some credibility.

Not sure if I ever responded to it, but thats included in the stats I gave you and a part of the 28 ppg and the one of 7 losses

 

[All3Phases]

But please take a minute to consider the argument being made on the other side.
Great defenses with terrible offenses will never perform as well as when their own offense cobbles up time of possession.
The vast majority of pundits (while not as knowledgeable as you) believe the Pats had a very good defense last year and will likely have a better one this year.

I believe the Pats have a very good defense, ive said it now at least five times in this thread. That doesnt change the fact that they have been poor against great qbs, and they have a ton on their schedule coming up. Do you think thats a fair thing to bring up?

Over and out.
Go Pats.

 

[Wozzy]

Maybe if you post that first line one more time your rebuttal will have some credibility

You have zero credibility can can barely muster an argument beyond... "well if we just remove these games the defensive stats weren't very good."

It's a method as old as time and just as dumb as it is old... Barry Sanders is the league leading rusher, but if we remove those long runs he wasn't very good. Dumb.

 

[All3Phases]

You have zero credibility can can barely muster an argument beyond... "well if we just remove these games the defensive stats weren't very good."

It's a method as old as time and just as dumb as it is old... Barry Sanders is the league leading rusher, but if we remove those long runs he wasn't very good. Dumb.

Well said. Its ok to just admit you dont care about winning playoff games or being competitive anymore

 

[50-yard-line]

I included the 7 quarterbacks who I considered very good in 2022 or had a history of being very good/elite

Agree, like I said before, Im not expecting them to dominate every game or be just as good playing against Lamar vs playing against Zach Wilson...But if you want to be competitive, they have to play well against the good quarterbacks at some point, you can say that stat is cherry picked, I say its their sample against the teams that are in their weight class or above that they need to compete with if they want to win super bowls, because thats still the standard imo.

This is reasonable. They need to get that damned Maimi monkey off their backs =- they should NOT be losing to the Dolphins.
One other thing, several of the games they lost to the teams in question were winnable games. They need to take that next step and win those games - Green Bay and Tampa come to mind.

 

[Wozzy]

Well said. Its ok to just admit you dont care about winning playoff games or being competitive anymore

They were a poor team because of their 25th ranked scoring offense, that turned the ball over at 17th worst rate, because their offense was 27th worst at time of possession, 28th worst in creating first downs, 27th worst on third downs, 32nd worst (dead last) in the red zone and were one of the most penalized units in the NFL.

You don't understand football... period.

 

[All3Phases]

This is reasonable. They need to get that damned Maimi monkey off their backs =- they should NOT be losing to the Dolphins.
One other thing, several of the games they lost to the teams in question were winnable games. They need to take that next step and win those games - Green Bay and Tampa come to mind.

I agree some of these were winnable, but a characteristic of losing teams is finding a way to lose close games. I agree 100% that the offense is a much bigger problem than the defense, just pointing out the defense isnt a juggernaut that some believe.

 

[All3Phases]

They were a poor team because of their 25th ranked scoring offense, because that offense turned the ball over at 17th worst rate, because their offense was 27th worst at time of possession, 28th worst in creating first downs and were one of the most penalized units in the NFL.

You don't understand football... period.

I agree thats why they were a poor team, doesnt mean the defense hasnt been poor against elite qbs.

 

[slash83]

Bentley and Mapu, hopefully a LB version of thunder and lightning!

 

[Wozzy]

I agree thats why they were a poor team, doesnt mean the defense isnt poor against elite qbs.

When your offense gives the ball back to the opposing teams with turnovers, or because they can't maintain a drive beyond three downs and have to punt...

... but somehow your defense can give up the 3rd fewest points, create the 2nd most turnovers, 3rd most sacks, 3rd most interceptions, 5th best rushing defense on the season... then yeah, your defense is exceptionally good.

 

[All3Phases]

When your offense gives the ball back to the opposing teams with turnovers, or because they can't maintain a drive beyond three downs and have to punt...

12 game sample, maybe they just arent good then

... but somehow your defense can give up the 3rd fewest points, create the 2nd most turnovers, 3rd most sacks, 5th best rushing defense... then yeah, your defense is exceptionally good.

Yes somehow they can perform well with a bad offense, until they dont...then you blame the offense. Go figure. Let me ask, is allowing an additional 14 ppg a lot? Hope they can go on a playoff run and play Zach Wilson 3x in a row!