Pats dump Defensive Assistant / Safety Coach Corwin Brown

[RayClay]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

No, Ray, he was trying things to see if they'd work. That's what freelancing is in the first place. "For the hell of it" just means that he had no reason behind his actions. The interviews/reports don't get into that.

I propose that trying stuff opposed to what the coaching staff wants with a bunch of newbies in the secondary is light years away from veteran defensive backs who have played together for years working plays and backing each other up.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

Nothing there says he was doing it "for the hell of it".

No, it was more like willful insubordination...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats dump Defensive Asst/Safety Coach Corwin Brown

You're equating Kyle Arrington, Chung, McCourtney and Butler with Law, Milloy, Harrison and O.T.I.S. experience wise? Please stop, you're killing me.

I'm not equating them at all. I'm doing just the opposite, in fact, noting that the experience levels of the players around Meriweather likely figure into the problem:

the other players in the secondary not being experienced enough to adjust to what Meriweather is doing.

It's obvious that you're not bothering to read what I've posted, so continuing this is a waste of time.

Were those the argument where everyone said the Patriots can never find the type of linebackers they need in the draft, they have to wait to pick up converted DEs from other teams?

No, they were the arguments where you were making completely inaccurate claims about the Steelers draft emphasis on LBs in the early part of the decade in comparison to the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

No, it was more like willful insubordination...

You can go off script with this team if you think you've spotted something, but you'd damned well better be right a lot more often than you're wrong. It was failing that was the problem.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats dump Defensive Asst/Safety Coach Corwin Brown

I'm not equating them at all. I'm doing just the opposite, in fact, noting that the experience levels of the players around Meriweather likely figure into the problem:



It's obvious that you're not bothering to read what I've posted, so continuing this is a waste of time.



No, they were the arguments where you were making completely inaccurate claims about the Steelers draft emphasis on LBs in the early part of the decade in comparison to the Patriots.

I'm reading what you posted. The coaches don't want freelancing, or even much gambling in a secondary that is as green as Kermit the Frog.

That's why they benched his ass. instead of being the leader he was the problem. The other players did what the coaches said, that's why they weren't benched. They sure benched Butlers ass too, maybe for a similar reason. Coaches don't want young players making a lot of decisions.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats dump Defensive Asst/Safety Coach Corwin Brown

I'm not equating them at all. I'm doing just the opposite, in fact, noting that the experience levels of the players around Meriweather likely figure into the problem:



It's obvious that you're not bothering to read what I've posted, so continuing this is a waste of time.



No, they were the arguments where you were making completely inaccurate claims about the Steelers draft emphasis on LBs in the early part of the decade in comparison to the Patriots.

Did the patriots have a secret draft where they drafted linebackers and didn't tell anyone?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

You can go off script with this team if you think you've spotted something, but you'd damned well better be right a lot more often than you're wrong. It was failing that was the problem.

No, not in camp when you're being coached to do one thing and you deliberately ignore that coaching and do what you want to do...or continue to try some things they don't want you to as he himself characterized it. That is what got him behind (if not in the dog house early on) and cost him playing time as a starter. Veteran players sometimes earn the right to go off script based on their experience and instincts. Bill considers a player a veteran after several seasons...That latitude becomes part of the scheme and players on the field with them are aware of what may transpire and coached up for adjusting to cover the play. When a player freelances on his own without coaching authorization he simply hangs his teamates and his coaches out to dry.

 

[jsull87]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

That's the key. It's something Branch pointed out in a post-game interview when he was talking about the play that he broke off and went deep.

My guess is that the problem with Meriweather freelancing is some combination of him not succeeding in his freelance and/or the other players in the secondary not being experienced enough to adjust to what Meriweather is doing.

See i agree with the poster before about BB trusting bruschi/rodney to freelance, but get to the spot they needed to be in that play. i remember early on in trainiing camp when it was becoming clear Spikes was gaining the lead to be a start Bb said " he doesn't always do things the way you would coach them but he has his own way and gets there". Or something along those lines. So it seemed in that case yes Spikes was doing things a little differently but the basic premise of what he was doing was good and BB trusted him to make the right call.

Also with what you said at the end... do you think as a defensive co-ordinator when you draw up a play that it's ok to have someone to free lance (not take up their assignment) and have the rest of the team have to change what they are doing to accommodate that freelance?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

See i agree with the poster before about BB trusting bruschi/rodney to freelance, but get to the spot they needed to be in that play. i remember early on in trainiing camp when it was becoming clear Spikes was gaining the lead to be a start Bb said " he doesn't always do things the way you would coach them but he has his own way and gets there". Or something along those lines. So it seemed in that case yes Spikes was doing things a little differently but the basic premise of what he was doing was good and BB trusted him to make the right call.

Also with what you said at the end... do you think as a defensive co-ordinator when you draw up a play that it's ok to have someone to free lance (not take up their assignment) and have the rest of the team have to change what they are doing to accommodate that freelance?

As far as I can tell 'freelancing' and not playing your assignment are not exclusively the same thing.
Defensive players are not given a robotic assigment. Reading the play and reacting to what you read is part of any defense.
The idea that Meriwhether ignored what his assignment was and decided to do something else, is moronic.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

I reject that and the Bruschi one too. Those guys knew the system and the assignments backwards and forwards. They were hardly "trying stuff to see if it works". having the bases covered and anticipating what is going to happen, breaking out and making a play, you better have made the right decision.

did you ever see those guys caught out of position?

Big difference between a calculated risk where you're always right and "trying stuff".

Just imagine Rodney or Bruschi being benched for a regular season game while healthy.

Yes, those guys were out of position sometimes. LEts not recreate history and call them infallable.
Besides, this isnt a case of Meriwhether ignoring his assignment. Its much more subtle than that. DBs need to makes decisions on plays. They are encouraged to read the play and react. This is not an insubordination issue its a matter of chossing the incorrect technique or reaction too often.
Of course you have also told us that this is due to Meriwhether having a big ego because he made the pro bowl, so perhaps we are just freelancing ourselves about the facts.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

Bruschi and Asante also both did to some extent.

I get the impression that a little freelancing isn't a problem if it more or less works, or at the very least if the coaches trust your judgment and reasoning.

Asante did, but Bruschi didn't. Bruschi played within his assignment. It's also why the Pats weren't sad to see Asante go and why Bruschi retired as a Patriot.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

...Also with what you said at the end... do you think as a defensive co-ordinator when you draw up a play that it's ok to have someone to free lance (not take up their assignment) and have the rest of the team have to change what they are doing to accommodate that freelance?

Some well known past and present examples;

It worked with Rodney Harrison. It worked (and still works) with Asante Samuel. It works with Troy Polamalu. It works with Ed Reed.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Pats dump DB Coach Corwin Brown

Yes, those guys were out of position sometimes. LEts not recreate history and call them infallable.
Besides, this isnt a case of Meriwhether ignoring his assignment. Its much more subtle than that. DBs need to makes decisions on plays. They are encouraged to read the play and react. This is not an insubordination issue its a matter of chossing the incorrect technique or reaction too often.
Of course you have also told us that this is due to Meriwhether having a big ego because he made the pro bowl, so perhaps we are just freelancing ourselves about the facts.

He said this, he was benched...on a team where he was supposed to be a leader.

If i knew more than those facts, I'd know more, but that's all I know.

“I was trying a lot of things in camp, to see if they’d work,” he said. “They wasn’t.

Instead of me stopping trying them and doing what I was coached, I kept trying.

 

[ALP]

this is good news...

BB spent an inordinate amount of time with the D this past year, and therefore so everything, if at the end of a season his only assessment was that ONE coach had to go, then so be it