Pats D still Number 2 in AFC points against

[Joey007]

So you are hoping they can find a way to give up about a TD more per game?

No. I do hope they could at least force at least another turnover per game and get up to one turnover per game.

 

[Ring 6]

No. I do hope they could at least force at least another turnover per game and get up to one turnover per game.

Turnovers would be great, but preventing points is more important, especially with Tom Brady on your team.

 

[luuked]

That joke of an offense was also apart of superbowl win last year. But that was not the point of the question. The point was is the New England Defense better than the Denver defense because it was giving up .9 points ppg at the time

You asked "would you take the Denver D over the Pats D". Whats the point of the question ? The entire sport is about individual parts complementing each other. The same is true for the offense and defense. So what you should have asked is would you take Denver over New England and not just individual parts.

 

[patsinthesnow]

You need to look at more than points allowed to isolate defensive performance.

Just a hunch that Denver would be surrendering less PPG if Brady was their QB instead of Siemian (and they would probably be undefeated).

 

[Ring 6]

Just a hunch that Denver would be surrendering less PPG if Brady was their QB instead of Siemian (and they would probably be undefeated).

That doesn't mean they have played better. Aside from the takeaways, which DOES mean they have played better, both defense went out on the field and faced whatever situations they faced, charged with not allowing points.
There is a tremendous difference between played better, and if the circumstances were different, they would have played better.

 

[patsinthesnow]

That doesn't mean they have played better. Aside from the takeaways, which DOES mean they have played better, both defense went out on the field and faced whatever situations they faced, charged with not allowing points.
There is a tremendous difference between played better, and if the circumstances were different, they would have played better.

Some of us aren't big PPG people. When you have the greatest decision maker in NFL history it helps out PPG.

Denver pass D is #1 in yards per game, yards per attempt, and opposing qbr. Their defense is in another league.

We had this debate years ago with the Jets defenses. We just disagree.

 

[1960Pats]

I disagree because football is about results, and how you get those results is meaningless, and truly does not transfer across different games.
The result is winning and losing, and for a unit scoring and takeaways/giveaways because they contribute to the other units scoring.
Parsing numbers to try to put a different value on the result, is simply wrong. The assumption that if the Patriots defense started 3 yards deeper in field position on each drive they would allow x more points is unfounded. The assumption that how you perform against one team means you can take that teams statistics and compare them to another teams statistics and know how you will perform against that other team is wrong.
The substance of his argument is the assumption that statistics in football, garnered in games vs one team, with different players, skillsets, matchups, game plans, play calling, situations, scoreboard status, etc can predict what you will do against a different team, and that's not only wrong, it has never been proven to be accurate.

Quite a few years ago I started playing with the numbers in football to see if there was a trend in the stats that leads to winning. TOP is a pretty good indicator for a particular game after the fact, but I was looking for some stat going into games that helps a team win.

Back before the rules were Polianed, the more meaningful stats were running stats. Teams who stopped the run and ran the ball better won more than the others.

After the rules were Polianed the teams who passed the ball and stopped the pass better were winning more games.

But through it all there have been 3 stats that lead to wins more than any others. Points scored, points against and power ranking. The teams that score the most and/or give up the least points going into a particular game, or teams that are ranked higher, win most often.

Another factor is home field advantage. If all you did was pick home teams in the games played so far this year you'd have a record of 92-67-2. Oddly enough, that's the same exact record you'd have if you picked the teams that were ranked the best at the time they played each other.

Then you have to consider what affect the schedule has on a teams true strength. Don't get me started.

 

[fightingirish595]

You asked "would you take the Denver D over the Pats D". Whats the point of the question ? The entire sport is about individual parts complementing each other. The same is true for the offense and defense. So what you should have asked is would you take Denver over New England and not just individual parts.

You have to read the what was said before that by Andy to understand. I am not explaining

 

[deroc5050]

We're 11 weeks into the season and the Pats are 7th in the NFL in points for and 3rd in points against. Their two losses were at home, a shutout and a game where they had a 1st and goal from the 1 at the end and couldn't score. That tells me that it's the offense that needs to step up, not the defense.

The offense most likely would have scored in the Seattle game but instead they wasted a play or 2 to drain clock. Because they were afraid to give the ball back to Russel Wilson with 40 seconds left.

 

[Ring 6]

Some of us aren't big PPG people. When you have the greatest decision maker in NFL history it helps out PPG.

Denver pass D is #1 in yards per game, yards per attempt, and opposing qbr. Their defense is in another league.

We had this debate years ago with the Jets defenses. We just disagree.

When you find a way to win games due to stats then I will agree stats mean more than points. Until then if you allow less points you have a better chance to win. (Qualified by takeaways of course)

 

[deroc5050]

Fact of the matter is they won't play a top 10 offense the rest of the way. They have had a relatively easy schedule in the second half, even when we played the Steelers we played their back up. So throw out any defensive points aloud stats because they will be skewed. We will be tested at Denver that should tell us who the more balanced team is when factoring everything in. But other than that we won't play a contender the rest of the way. Hopefully @Miami the last game of the season doesn't matter to us. We always seem to struggle at Miami.

 

[Ring 6]

Quite a few years ago I started playing with the numbers in football to see if there was a trend in the stats that leads to winning. TOP is a pretty good indicator for a particular game after the fact, but I was looking for some stat going into games that helps a team win.

Back before the rules were Polianed, the more meaningful stats were running stats. Teams who stopped the run and ran the ball better won more than the others.

After the rules were Polianed the teams who passed the ball and stopped the pass better were winning more games.

But through it all there have been 3 stats that lead to wins more than any others. Points scored, points against and power ranking. The teams that score the most and/or give up the least points going into a particular game, or teams that are ranked higher, win most often.

Another factor is home field advantage. If all you did was pick home teams in the games played so far this year you'd have a record of 92-67-2. Oddly enough, that's the same exact record you'd have if you picked the teams that were ranked the best at the time they played each other.

Then you have to consider what affect the schedule has on a teams true strength. Don't get me started.

This is my issue. You don't have to tell me what characteristics led to winning I can see who won.

You cannot judge a football team by saying they are more likely to win because of these characteristics. You look at whether hey win.
So is you are judging an offense or a defense points scored and allowed (plus turnovers) is the only measure because all of those other things came out in the wash.

 

[Ring 6]

The offense most likely would have scored in the Seattle game but instead they wasted a play or 2 to drain clock. Because they were afraid to give the ball back to Russel Wilson with 40 seconds left.

That's a ridiculous statement.

 

[deroc5050]

That's a ridiculous statement.

Brady admitted it. I didn't make it up he said they were trying to not score to drain clock. I am not gonna find the link to the interview but thats exactly what he said.

 

[1960Pats]

The offense most likely would have scored in the Seattle game but instead they wasted a play or 2 to drain clock. Because they were afraid to give the ball back to Russel Wilson with 40 seconds left.

I thought it was a done deal too. I was more concerned that they would miss the kick. I think another mistake was the QB sneak. I like it sometimes but not in that situation.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady admitted it. I didn't make it up he said they were trying to not score to drain clock. I am not gonna find the link to the interview but thats exactly what he said.

No he didn't. He didn't say they were afraid of putting the defense in the field.

EVERY TEAM IN EVERY GAME would burn clock in that situation

 

[FourierSeries]

We will be tested at Denver

The defense certainly won't be tested that game. Might be one of the easiest games of the year for the D.

 

[patsderoer]

No he didn't. He didn't say they were afraid of putting the defense in the field.

EVERY TEAM IN EVERY GAME would burn clock in that situation

That is a laughable statement. Most of the teams would try to get the TD first, then try to burn clock.

 

[Ring 6]

That is a laughable statement. Most of the teams would try to get the TD first, then try to burn clock.

How do you burn clock AFTER scoring?

 

[patsderoer]

How do you burn clock AFTER scoring?

This is how (english is not my first language) -- > That is a laughable statement. Most of the teams would try to get the TD first, (rather) than try to burn clock.