Pats and Asante Samuels Holding "Preliminary Talk" per Agent

[patsox23]

Now Mankins can probably run block as well as Andruzzi could when he was a Pat.

Logan Mankins entered the NFL a better run-blocker than Andruzzi ever was. Seriously. I liked Andruzzi, but the guy isn't in the same world of run-blocking as #70.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'll take your word for it, Box. When I saw his videos at Texas he looked more like one of the big WRs than a true tight end. Can't say I see enough of him to judge.

I kind of get the impression Watson isn't really interested in the blocking aspect, but that might be conjecture on my part also.

Watson played a lot of whiffle ball last season, I thought he was still doing it in preseason, but he has been much improved this year, he doesn't have that same dominance Graham has, but he is sticking to his blocks and rarely misses - major improvement. Pass blocking is still a weakness, but I'm confident he will get better.

I also thought Thomas was "just" a receiver, but he showed up in the preseason as a blocker and has steadily improved - note that Watson is getting many more passes, Thomas has had a couple long ones and that sweet grab for a 1st down over the middle against Miami, but he is kept in to block more often. It could be that Tommy just prefers to throw to Watson, but if Thomas couldn't block, they wouldn't be so quick to keep him in.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Just now responding to this... but if you've watched Asante's last couple of games (when this thread first started,) I think we need to have talks with this guy weekly until after the Super Bowl.

PFnV

 

[Water Boy]

You know how this crowd likes to spend Bob Kraft's money when he's not looking.

I think we have to factor in the new salary cap when considering the deal for Asante. I'd say so far this season, he's played like a No. 1 CB. I think he'll get $5 million a year on the FA market. Whether the Pats are willing to pay that or not, I don't know. With a weak FA class, I wonder how willing the Pats are to go into next year with Scott, Hobbs, Gay, and and whoever they draft at the CB position?

 

[bigdgp]

I think we have to factor in the new salary cap when considering the deal for Asante. I'd say so far this season, he's played like a No. 1 CB. I think he'll get $5 million a year on the FA market. Whether the Pats are willing to pay that or not, I don't know. With a weak FA class, I wonder how willing the Pats are to go into next year with Scott, Hobbs, Gay, and and whoever they draft at the CB position?

I'm also concerned about this. We really don't have a lot of negotiating power given what's happened the last few years I mean the losses of all of our other free agents has been so devastating. Look at the impact the loss of Deion, Willie and Vinatieri, have had this year. Wait, what's that? We're 5-1? Hmmm...Everything has worked out okay so far? We have extra cap money we can use this year to extend players? Well maybe this will just work out...

 

[Pats726]

I mean the losses of all of our other free agents has been so devastating. Look at the impact the loss of Deion, Willie and Vinatieri, have had this year. Wait, what's that? We're 5-1? Hmmm...Everything has worked out okay so far? We have extra cap money we can use this year to extend players? Well maybe this will just work out...

Devastating? I guess I fail to see the devastation as you do For the record, WIllie was cut the twif did not wish to be here and was traded...AdamV was a FA loss...

 

[Fencer]

Devastating? I guess I fail to see the devastation as you do For the record, WIllie was cut the twif did not wish to be here and was traded...AdamV was a FA loss...

Look up the word "facetious" in the dictionary.

Or just fire up your sarcasm meter.

 

[Fencer]

The only basis for the opinion he doesn't want to stay here was his statement that the Pats will have one chance to make an offer and they best make it a good one - or wording to that effect coupled with the notion that he wants to go home to Colorado.

I agree with you Box O - I do not think there really is any basis for fact that he is gone unless we franchise him.

I think a decent deal with nice bonus money commensurate with his peers should do it. I think we will make him that offer.

The question, as always is do other teams think he is worth much more than the value we place on the position and the player? Will someone out there overpay?

I really want to see him stay, but not if his price is too steep. I am not sure, in my own mind, if he is worth the average of the top 5 players at the position either.

His refusal to negotiate during the season is also a little worrisome.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[cstjohn17]

This is off topic from the Samuel thread, which can be summarized as "If he signs good, if he leaves thanks for the memories" plus a whole bunch of stuff about relative value, and extra cap space, etc.

Back to the off topic topic.... Watson is a terrible blocker, dreadful, brutal, he almost got Brady killed twice last week. He is the total exact opposite of someone like Faulk who will stick his nose into an on rushing LB. He needs to show more of a warrior mentality because when you watch the replays he comes across as a soft player who likes to avoid contact.

Watson played a lot of whiffle ball last season, I thought he was still doing it in preseason, but he has been much improved this year, he doesn't have that same dominance Graham has, but he is sticking to his blocks and rarely misses - major improvement. Pass blocking is still a weakness, but I'm confident he will get better.

I also thought Thomas was "just" a receiver, but he showed up in the preseason as a blocker and has steadily improved - note that Watson is getting many more passes, Thomas has had a couple long ones and that sweet grab for a 1st down over the middle against Miami, but he is kept in to block more often. It could be that Tommy just prefers to throw to Watson, but if Thomas couldn't block, they wouldn't be so quick to keep him in.

 

[Miguel]

That's from Reis' article today, nothing groundbreaking for sure. Much like with The Twig, it all depends on what the player means when he uses the word "fair".

Totally agree.

 

[Miguel]

OTOH, I was surprised to hear that the franchise price for TEs is only $3.3 million.

That was the price in 2006. I think that it will be closer to $4.4 million in 2007. A good number of the top TEs have been signed to extensions over the past 2 years. This year is the year that we will start their effect on the franchise tage number.

 

[Miguel]

There are only 3 players making over $3.7M (Koppen's $5M number is reported to include $2M in incentives that probably will carry over to next year).

Those players are: Brady, Seymour, and Colvin. I'm not sure they will ever pay the Colvin type money to anyone ever again.

Colvin's APY is 4.16 million. The Patriots' 1st offer to Branch had an APY of just less than $5 million, $6.25 million if one does not use the 2006 year in determining the divisor but do include it in the numerator. Therefore, I think that this front office does not have a problem paying Colvin type money to Patriots beside Brady and Seymour.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

There's one thing about the new cap regime I do like... guys like Colvin (6.3M then 7.4M hits in 07 and 08) don't seem like the forced restructuring candidates they seemed like a year ago. Of course his deal's up in 09... so given recent history, I'm enjoying his play while he's here.

PFnV

 

[Pats726]

Look up the word "facetious" in the dictionary.

Or just fire up your sarcasm meter.

Overlooked a bit...I guess..too serious here in the rain..

 

[cstjohn17]

Interesting summary from Charles Robinson as he runs down the top potential FAs for 2007.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...?slug=cr-freeagents110106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


5. Asante Samuel, CB, New England Patriots
There are plenty of people in the league who think Samuel is better than one of last offseason's prized free agent cornerbacks – Jacksonville's Brian Williams – and who think Samuel could be looking at the same kind of double-digit signing bonus. Samuel has become New England's best cover corner, and quietly, one of the better ones in the NFL. But he hasn't had the highlight plays Nate Clements put up the last few seasons, so he hasn't gotten the vast attention. But he will if New England keeps winning. Don't be surprised if he becomes the No. 2 free agent this offseason behind Freeney and draws a franchise tag from the Patriots. Unlike so many other players New England has let go, Samuel is young (he'll be 26 until January) and is still improving. Teammates in his unit love his dedication in the film room, and Samuel has been taken under the wing of safety Rodney Harrison as far as the preparation end of the game. It would be a shock if the Patriots let him get away.

 

[PatsRI]

Interesting summary from Charles Robinson as he runs down the top potential FAs for 2007.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlMf32A0_hqNz8Qd9w..4PeI2bYF?slug=cr-freeagents110106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


5. Asante Samuel, CB, New England Patriots
There are plenty of people in the league who think Samuel is better than one of last offseason's prized free agent cornerbacks – Jacksonville's Brian Williams – and who think Samuel could be looking at the same kind of double-digit signing bonus. Samuel has become New England's best cover corner, and quietly, one of the better ones in the NFL. But he hasn't had the highlight plays Nate Clements put up the last few seasons, so he hasn't gotten the vast attention. But he will if New England keeps winning. Don't be surprised if he becomes the No. 2 free agent this offseason behind Freeney and draws a franchise tag from the Patriots. Unlike so many other players New England has let go, Samuel is young (he'll be 26 until January) and is still improving. Teammates in his unit love his dedication in the film room, and Samuel has been taken under the wing of safety Rodney Harrison as far as the preparation end of the game. It would be a shock if the Patriots let him get away.

A franchise tag? What would that amount to? Way more then I think they would be willing to give.

 

[Miguel]

A franchise tag? What would that amount to? Way more then I think they would be willing to give.

My guess is $7,380,000 from taking the average of these cap numbers.

Chris McAlister Baltimore $8,407,082
Champ Bailey Denver $7,992,000
Nate Clements Buffalo $7,226,000
Charles Woodson Green Bay $6,709,330
Ronde Barber Tampa Bay $6,564,000

 

[Miguel]

That was the price in 2006. I think that it will be closer to $4.4 million in 2007. A good number of the top TEs have been signed to extensions over the past 2 years. This year is the year that we will start their effect on the franchise tage number.

Latest estimate - $4.752 million from taking the average of these cap numbers

Tony Gonzalez Kansas City $6,531,370
Antonio Gates San Diego $4,860,000
Alge Crumpler Atlanta $4,355,000
Jeremy Shockey NY Giants $4,179,000
Kellen Winslow Cleveland $3,836,375

 

[cstjohn17]

Latest estimate - $4.752 million from taking the average of these cap numbers

Tony Gonzalez Kansas City $6,531,370
Antonio Gates San Diego $4,860,000
Alge Crumpler Atlanta $4,355,000
Jeremy Shockey NY Giants $4,179,000
Kellen Winslow Cleveland $3,836,375

Hmmm.. 4.7 is an awful lot Graham, and $7.4 is a lot for Samuel... hmmm... tough call. I guess I would spend my money on a CB, more of premium position, makes the case for a $5M per year contact for Samuel more sensible.

 

[Warhorse]

If Asante was smart he'd wait for free agency. Cornerbacks can cash in if they are at the top of the free agency list. I know that's not something that the patriot nation believes in but I figure he will take the tag this next season and hit free agency so he can really get his due. I did have a question for Miguel... What changed in the dealings of the franchise tag, something to the effect of after being tagged once or twice, the tag skyrockets? Is that correct?