Pats and Asante Samuels Holding "Preliminary Talk" per Agent

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Yeah, I also equate when a fan at this site or the general media says 'spend the money' on a Patriots player, they are basically saying: Bioli must forgo their normally conservative offers of 'value based contracts' which pay at a ratio of 1 for 1, pay for actual performance, and instead offer the player whatever amount will keep the player from going to the Redskins, regardless of actual pay/performance ratio.

Thankfully, Bioli doesn't 'spend the money' but instead carefully invests the exact right amount for each cog in the wheel, without overpaying.

And this leads me to an observation that I have made. The players that make big contracts never seem to play any better than the hungry young players like Asante, on their first contract. That is why Bioli will continue to do as good a job as anyone, and better than most, at bringing in young talent from the draft to supplant people that go elsewhere to be overpaid.

Nobody here is irreplaceable, except for Brady. Even Seymour has been less stellar since he got his money.

Hard work in scouting the draft keeps us from having to 'spend the money' on older, slower players who end up being less and less effective as they make more and more money.

Asante is having a great contract year, but if he goes elsewhere for a ton of money, he won't end up being worth it, IMO. Let's make him a value offer, not just 'spend money' on him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Presuming that we could get Samuel for $25M for five years ($10M 2-part bonus), would we? I think so. This is about future planning and the 2000-2009 patriot dynasty. It is worth $5M a year to solidify two corners through 2009.

And please, understand that I will be the first to advocate using a first or second for a corner in the next draft, and have three corners set through 2009.

BTW, we also have the caproom for a $3M per year TE. Unfortunately, Graham's durability and wish to be elsewhere will likely lead us to having Thomas as the blocking TE.

Somehow if we wouldn't give Deion Branch a double digit bonus when he was at least a legitimate if not elite #1 on this team who had already lost their #2, hell will freeze over before we give one to a decent starting corner who has never been close to the top 10 or likely 20 if not more at that position.

 

[cstjohn17]

Salaries are one area to compare. The list below breaks down length, $ amount and bonus. I think $5M per year is a rounded average.

Here are some recent CB signings, make your own guess on where Samuels ranks. According to Miguel the Franchise number (average of top 5 salaries) for Cornerback, $7.226 million

Samari Rolle, Baltimore - 6 years, $30.5 M, $11M bonus, YOB 1976
Fred Smoot, Vikings - 6 years, $34 M, $10M bonus, YOB 1979
Antoine Winfield, Vikings - 6 years, $35 M, $10.8M bonus, YOB 1977
Fred Baxter, Cleveland - 6 years, $30 M, $10M bonus, YOB 1978
Brian Williams, Jacksonville, 6 years, $34M, $10M bonus, YOB 1979
R.W. McQuarters, Giants - 3 years, $6M , $2M bonus, YOB 1976
Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh - 4 years, $22.5M, $6.4 bonus, YOB 1980
Deshea Townsend, Pittsburgh - 4 years, $8M, $2 bonus, YOB 1975
Lito Shepperd, Eagles - 5 years, $25M, $9M bonus, YOB 1981
Sheldon Brown, Eagles - 6 years, $30M, $7M bonus, YOB 1979
Ty Law, Chiefs - 5 years, $31.5M, $4M bonus, YOB 1974
Mike McKenzie, Saints - 5-year, $22M, $4M bonus, YOB 1976

FA class is weak, http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/...eagentsDB.html

Samuels - ???? - YOB 1981

I don't know where this $5 million is coming from. Here are the highest paid corners this season in no particular order.

Player Name Position Team Compensation
Bailey, Roland CB DB 5500000.00
Barber, Jamael Oronde CB TBB 4000000.00
Barrett, David CB NYJ 2055000.00
Baxter, Gary CB CLB 1500000.00
Bly, Dre' CB DL 3800000.00
Bryant, Fernando CB DL 2000000.00
Clements, Nate CB BB 7226000.00
Harris, Al CB GBP 1500000.00
Henry, Anthony CB DC 1800000.00
Herndon, Kelly CB SS 2000000.00
Hood, Roderick CB PE 1573000.00
James, Tory CB CNB 2875000.00
Kelly, Brian CB TBB 2400000.00
Macklin, David CB AC 2000000.00
Manning, Ricky CB CHB 1585000.00
McAlister, Chris CB BR 5500000.00
McCutcheon, Daylon CB CLB 2000000.00
McGee, Terrence CB BB 2000000.00
McKenzie, Mike CB NOS 1500000.00
O'Neal, Deltha CB CNB 2800000.00
Rolle, Samari CB BR 3000000.00
Thomas, Fred CB NOS 1900000.00
Webster, Jason CB AF 1800000.00
Winfield, Antoine CB MV 4700000.00
Woodson, Charles CB GBP 1500000.00

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Why do some of you folks believe Graham "doesn't want to be here?" The only place I've seen that written, and that anybody has quoted, is a Ron Borges' column where he is attacking the Pats during the Deion Debacle and quoting an alleged friend of Graham - even the infamous I'm Ron Borges didn't consider him a credible reporter. Lets show a little substantiation before throwing Graham under the bus.

As for Asante, while his game was inconsistent last season, I'm still wondering if he was playing injured? We also don't have BB's first hand look at him to know if there is still potential left untapped. Those will all factor into the financial discussion. My bottom line, if they land him, I'll know they were happy with the price tag, if they don't, I'd assume other clubs whispered into the agent's ear and recommended he wait for Free Agency. He'll be welcome to return, if he gets Given's kind of deal, best wishes, where's Blue & Chad.

 

[shakadave]

I think that Samuel will be paid slightly less than Lito Sheppard, but more than Ike Taylor.

???? Ike Taylor makes more than Lito Sheppard.

Also, how did this forum (in general) go from being not sure whether Samuel should be a starter for us, to thinking he's worth being paid 4th highest on the team? I can't fathom paying him $5m per year. Before reading this thread, I would have guessed $3.7m per year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

???? Ike Taylor makes more than Lito Sheppard.

Also, how did this forum (in general) go from being not sure whether Samuel should be a starter for us, to thinking he's worth being paid 4th highest on the team? I can't fathom paying him $5m per year. Before reading this thread, I would have guessed $3.7m per year.

You know how this crowd likes to spend Bob Kraft's money when he's not looking.

 

[arrellbee]

You know how this crowd likes to spend Bob Kraft's money when he's not looking.

.................

 

[ChockBlkr]

I don't see the team commiting more than $2mill/yr in cap space to him at this point due to the history of the FO policy and the fact that Asante hasn't shown that he can perform up to an even above average level on a consistent basis. If he continues his solid performance thru the end of the season, that will change.

 

[Pats726]

Why do some of you folks believe Graham "doesn't want to be here?" The only place I've seen that written, and that anybody has quoted, is a Ron Borges' column where he is attacking the Pats during the Deion Debacle and quoting an alleged friend of Graham - even the infamous I'm Ron Borges didn't consider him a credible reporter. Lets show a little substantiation before throwing Graham under the bus.

As for Asante, while his game was inconsistent last season, I'm still wondering if he was playing injured? We also don't have BB's first hand look at him to know if there is still potential left untapped. Those will all factor into the financial discussion. My bottom line, if they land him, I'll know they were happy with the price tag, if they don't, I'd assume other clubs whispered into the agent's ear and recommended he wait for Free Agency. He'll be welcome to return, if he gets Given's kind of deal, best wishes, where's Blue & Chad.

I think you summed it all up..they know what he can do..and may be able to project into the future quite easily. I would like to see him here..he may have takenut up a notch..but if its green he's after..there will always be a team that will pay more..and that ONLY means if players are over paid, there will be others that are not and available. SAs for Graham, I have heard that he sihed to go west ealier int he year..Pats Weekly talked a bit about this..almost matter of factly..preseason time, I believe..but besides that and Borges's crap, nothing more. In fact, I heard
somewhere..that he does NOT wish to return home..almost like the last place he wants to visit again. SO?? I hope there are thoiose playesr that appreciate what is being done here..and wish to stay..and do NOT go after those greenbacks.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Graham wants to be here, if he can be paid market value for a top TE, and he can start being featured like some of the top TE's in th league.

Graham likely wants to be here as much as Woody, McGinist, Ashworth, Andruzzi and Branch wanted to be here. They all did want to stay.

It is the judgement, the guess, of many here that, in the end, Graham will play for someone else next year, and that the most likely way he plays for the patriots is under a franchise tag.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

This was posted a couple of hours ago in Ben Mallers' Rumours Column on FOX Sports.

Samuel's agent,Alonzo Shavers,reports that he and that Patriots have had
"preliminary conversations" regarding a contract extension for cornerback,
Asante Samuel.

Shavers sounded upbeat about the talks.

http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2006/october/25#119006

Is that the same Alonzo Shavers that fought Ali & Norton back in the 70's?

 

[shakadave]

Yes, Graham wants to be here, if he can be paid market value for a top TE, and he can start being featured like some of the top TE's in th league.

Graham likely wants to be here as much as Woody, McGinist, Ashworth, Andruzzi and Branch wanted to be here. They all did want to stay.

It is the judgement, the guess, of many here that, in the end, Graham will play for someone else next year, and that the most likely way he plays for the patriots is under a franchise tag.

I hope it won't come to this, but if it does.... Graham would be an EXCELLENT player to use the franchise tag on. Not too expensive. High-quality player. We could franchise him two years running!

 

[BelichickFan]

I hope it won't come to this, but if it does.... Graham would be an EXCELLENT player to use the franchise tag on. Not too expensive. High-quality player. We could franchise him two years running!

I agree with you although the TE Franchise number will rise a good amount this year with a few big TE contracts being signed this past offseason.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It is the judgement, the guess, of many here that, in the end, Graham will play for someone else next year, and that the most likely way he plays for the patriots is under a franchise tag.

What a bunch of Bovine Male Waste - folks with no F-ing clue decide Graham doesn't want to be here based on their judgement. A judgement based not on fact, but on their guess. Real men (& women) of genius, it's a wonder Pioli isn't anxiously reading your every word in place of scouting reports.

 

[lobster]

Graham likely wants to be here as much as Woody, McGinist, Ashworth, Andruzzi and Branch wanted to be here. They all did want to stay.

According to Andruzzi he would take the Patriots discount etc., but the Pat's essentially didn't want him back. He had a significant weight problem which was probably an issue. Romeo did make him an excellent offer. Now Mankins can probably run block as well as Andruzzi could when he was a Pat.

 

[fgssand]

What a bunch of Bovine Male Waste - folks with no F-ing clue decide Graham doesn't want to be here based on their judgement. A judgement based not on fact, but on their guess. Real men (& women) of genius, it's a wonder Pioli isn't anxiously reading your every word in place of scouting reports.

The only basis for the opinion he doesn't want to stay here was his statement that the Pats will have one chance to make an offer and they best make it a good one - or wording to that effect coupled with the notion that he wants to go home to Colorado.

I agree with you Box O - I do not think there really is any basis for fact that he is gone unless we franchise him.

I think a decent deal with nice bonus money commensurate with his peers should do it. I think we will make him that offer.

The question, as always is do other teams think he is worth much more than the value we place on the position and the player? Will someone out there overpay?

I really want to see him stay, but not if his price is too steep. I am not sure, in my own mind, if he is worth the average of the top 5 players at the position either.

 

[RayClay]

Is that the same Alonzo Shavers that fought Ali & Norton back in the 70's?

Ernie.......

 

[RayClay]

Presuming that we could get Samuel for $25M for five years ($10M 2-part bonus), would we? I think so. This is about future planning and the 2000-2009 patriot dynasty. It is worth $5M a year to solidify two corners through 2009.

And please, understand that I will be the first to advocate using a first or second for a corner in the next draft, and have three corners set through 2009.

BTW, we also have the caproom for a $3M per year TE. Unfortunately, Graham's durability and wish to be elsewhere will likely lead us to having Thomas as the blocking TE.

And we turn Thomas into a blocking tight end how?

I can see acquiring a blocking tight end, but Thomas is what he is. And he is not a blocking tight end.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The only basis for the opinion he doesn't want to stay here was his statement that the Pats will have one chance to make an offer and they best make it a good one - or wording to that effect coupled with the notion that he wants to go home to Colorado.

Frank, please don't join the crowd quoting Ron Borges allegedly quoting a "friend" of Daniel Graham's allegedly quoting Graham. This sounds too much like the story of Drew Bledsoe calling Ron Borges for advice on how to talk with Bill Belichick on how to get his job back from Tom Brady - Drew's imaginary friend telling him how to talk to his coach makes me wonder if Graham had an imaginary friend in that article. I'll wait for a reputable reporter to break the Graham wants to leave story.

And we turn Thomas into a blocking tight end how?

I can see acquiring a blocking tight end, but Thomas is what he is. And he is not a blocking tight end.

Oddly enough, rookie Dave Thomas is blocking as well as (if not slightly better than) 2nd year man Ben Watson. I can see him developing into a dependable blocker by his third season.

Edit: Ben Watson is greatly improved as a run blocker this season, his pass blocking isn't what you'd like to see yet.

 

[RayClay]

Frank, please don't join the crowd quoting Ron Borges allegedly quoting a "friend" of Daniel Graham's allegedly quoting Graham. This sounds too much like the story of Drew Bledsoe calling Ron Borges for advice on how to talk with Bill Belichick on how to get his job back from Tom Brady - Drew's imaginary friend telling him how to talk to his coach makes me wonder if Graham had an imaginary friend in that article. I'll wait for a reputable reporter to break the Graham wants to leave story.



Oddly enough, rookie Dave Thomas is blocking as well as (if not slightly better than) 2nd year man Ben Watson. I can see him developing into a dependable blocker by his third season.

I'll take your word for it, Box. When I saw his videos at Texas he looked more like one of the big WRs than a true tight end. Can't say I see enough of him to judge.

I kind of get the impression Watson isn't really interested in the blocking aspect, but that might be conjecture on my part also.