Patriots working out kickers

[Clonamery]

Gostkowski needs to sit a game. He's an aging veteran. A work in progress. I do get it. I'm not done with the guy forever. But Steve Gostkowski had a terrible game Sunday and made a big error that lost us another point, and I'm sure Bill doesn't take that sort of thing lightly, even in a victory. I don't think he needs to be benched forever but he made some mistakes today and I'd sit him a game and let him work on whatever he was struggling with, and give Jake Bailey or Nate Ebner a look as a kicker until he's in a better spot. If Bill just thinks it's a fluke that Gostkowski needs to work out in live games I'd be OK with that, but in that situation I'd give the geezer a mental break.

you’re a menace to society. Well done.

 

[TommyD4207]

Gostkowski needs to sit a game. He's an aging veteran. A work in progress. I do get it. I'm not done with the guy forever. But Steve Gostkowski had a terrible game Sunday and made a big error that lost us another point, and I'm sure Bill doesn't take that sort of thing lightly, even in a victory. I don't think he needs to be benched forever but he made some mistakes today and I'd sit him a game and let him work on whatever he was struggling with, and give Jake Bailey or Nate Ebner a look as a kicker until he's in a better spot. If Bill just thinks it's a fluke that Gostkowski needs to work out in live games I'd be OK with that, but in that situation I'd give the geezer a mental break.

This is becoming all-timer copypasta.

 

[PatsDeb]

If what you said were remotely true, explain them working out 2 WR and a LB yesterday. Explain all the OTHER players they've worked out so far this year. Sorry, but reality doesn't support your claim.

Explain when they have had another kicker in during the season. Reality doesn't support your blind support of Gost. Whatever.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, name calling ends this discussion if that is all you got. The so called more "intelligent" posters had it wrong because they looked at ancient history rather than what is before their eyes.

You're wrong and now your spewing lies to support your claims. Had you actually READ the other thread, you'd know that people weren't looking at "Ancient History" (whatever that is). Most people were actually watching the games and commenting on the here and now. It was people like yourself who have been claiming that Gost has had issues for 4+ years who are the ones going with "Ancient History".

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Explain when they have had another kicker in during the season. Reality doesn't support your blind support of Gost. Whatever.

Some posters are arguing it's all on Bailey. Normally I would agree with that, but Ghost has been near perfect on FGs.

 

[Kdo5]

There is a problem this year. Yes, you guys are amazing in figuring that out.

There was a problem before this year too. He hadn’t been playing as well as past seasons and this season he has been dog ****.

 

[Lavictoire]

Love when some schlub says others should watch the game yet those others he complains about do ACTUALLY watch the games. It's how they cause that 2 of the missed kicks in Miami were because of bad holds by Bailey.

You're a Johnny-Come-Lately attempting to smear people who have clearly watched more football in their lives than you have. It's ridiculous..

And it's also funny how you come out of the woodwork only to criticize players or BB..

I love BB and rarely criticize him. My sig and avatar is "leave Bill Bellichick alone!" I reserve that right though. I didn't like him holding out Butler and I was surprised he signed Antonio Brown for the very predictable reasons he had to dump him. The only smears are from you Ghost defenders for hearing a different (and accurate it turns out) opinion.

 

[patfanken]

The issue I have with this post is that it embodies the very things you're accusing the "anti-Gost" crowd of.

"... there are 2 types of posters. The intelligent posters who look at Gost numbers ..."

This implies that those who reach a conclusion different than the one you've reached (or a conclusion different than the conclusion the pro-Gost crowd has reached, generally) are not intelligent. And additionally, implying an "us vs. them" mentality, and creating a binary, either with him or against him dichotomy. You don't really seem to be leaving the door open for someone to have a dissenting opinion.

"and then this mob mentality develops"

Which of course has in fact developed in the opposite direction too; for every person criticizing Gost without evidence, there are just as many defending him in an equally lazy way, mob-like way.

There's a middle ground of thoughtful exchange here, and the majority on both sides are not hitting the mark, IMHO.

As for my thoughts?

I felt like, starting about 4-5 years ago, Gost seemed to lose his technique, in a totally subjective, eye-test sense. I really have no objective basis for this, but around the time the kickoff was moved forward and the XP was moved back, Gost seemed to start clipping the ball more, as opposed to driving his field goals; his kicks seem to drift more, and his makes were occasionally trailing off late and sneaking in.

Additionally, we started to notice a trend: he seemed shaky early season and in the postseason, seeming to miss an XP or two during those two windows of the season.

Ever since then I didn't entirely trust him kicking the ball, although statistically, yes, aggregated over the course of each season he's been very good.

This season mirrored the aforementioned trend, but he hasn't shaken off the early-season yips as he generally does, and the misses have continued frequently enough for most to acknowledge that he is struggling at present.

The other element to this whole discussion is the holder, which in past seasons had largely been blamed for Gost's struggles, but we never got a genuine feel for what percentage of Gost's misses were actually the fault of the holder. I think we've reached a point now where Gost himself has admitted the issue (insofar as this season) is largely his own.

All that said, he's the kicker of the team and I fully support him and want to see him succeed. I tend to think that he's the best option relative to the FAs out there. We shall see.

I appreciate that you took the time to point out in detail you point of view. Just have one question, who's we? As in "we started to notice a trend...."

If there HAD been a trend that you think has been there for 4 or 5 years, how has Gotskowski manged his 85% conversion rate (87% in the playoffs) AND the fact that during this so called "troubled period" he's 7 of 8 in his FG attempts this year.

Clearly it seems, the only problem Gotskowski is having is on extra points. While it's baffling, but FG isn't just a one man operation. It's a 3 man endeavor, but MOST of the skills needed to be successful falls on the kicker, since there are more places to fail in his operation.

Here's the thing people ought to take from the fact kickers are being worked out today. NOTHING!

I believe if you look back over the years they will find that Bill has brought in kickers at some point EVERY year. Bill is a prudent man and THAT is the prudent thing to do. Kickers rarely get hurt, but they do sometimes, and that reality is why the Pats, like most teams, want to know what's out there in the FA market BEFORE an injury rather than after it. Really folks, nothing to see here, move along.

 

[DaBruinz]

Explain when they have had another kicker in during the season. Reality doesn't support your blind support of Gost. Whatever.

They've had other kickers in during the season for try-outs previously (2012 and 2017 are articles I found). Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. They're always keeping their emergency list updated.

Sorry, but I don't have "blind support" for anyone. Unlike yourself, I let facts and not emotional kneejerk reactions do the talking.

 

[Bruins29]

Hockey season's starting soon. He'll be gone along with a few other posters soon enough...

I see you haven't changed

 

[DaBruinz]

I love BB and rarely criticize him. My sig and avatar is "leave Bill Bellichick alone!" I reserve that right though. I didn't like him holding out Butler and I was surprised he signed Antonio Brown for the very predictable reasons he had to dump him. The only smears are from you Ghost defenders for hearing a different (and accurate it turns out) opinion.

You're full of garbage. You only think your opinion is accurate because you choose to ignore the fact that the Patriots have brought in kickers for try-outs previously. Even when Gostkowski wasn't having problems.

 

[Sicilian]

Honestly, if there is anything to read into this (and I'm not convinced there is), it's probably that Gost has a minor, nagging injury and they don't want to be caught flat footed if it suddenly goes south. But replacing a kicker that's been great for 10 years after a slow start isn't the kind of knee-jerk thing that Belichick usually does.

 

[Bruins29]

There was a problem before this year too. He hadn’t been playing as well as past seasons and this season he has been dog ****.

I know. He was just good instead of his usual HOF level for that 3 years span. I know it hurts to just have a good kicker. Try to get over it.

 

[Bruins29]

Honestly, if there is anything to read into this (and I'm not convinced there is), it's probably that Gost has a minor, nagging injury and they don't want to be caught flat footed if it suddenly goes south. But replacing a kicker that's been great for 10 years after a slow start isn't the kind of knee-jerk thing that Belichick usually does.

I believe he is injured. If he has to have surgery then its the off season. But he may not make it until then and they made need a replacement guy for the time being.

So I ask WTF does this have to do with last year....and he was not bad last year.

Oh, I get it, CLs can finally say they were right about something they knew nothing about.

 

[Lavictoire]

The issue I have with this post is that it embodies the very things you're accusing the "anti-Gost" crowd of.

"... there are 2 types of posters. The intelligent posters who look at Gost numbers ..."

This implies that those who reach a conclusion different than the one you've reached (or a conclusion different than the conclusion the pro-Gost crowd has reached, generally) are not intelligent. And additionally, implying an "us vs. them" mentality, and creating a binary, either with him or against him dichotomy. You don't really seem to be leaving the door open for someone to have a dissenting opinion.

"and then this mob mentality develops"

Which of course has in fact developed in the opposite direction too; for every person criticizing Gost without evidence, there are just as many defending him in an equally lazy way, mob-like way.

There's a middle ground of thoughtful exchange here, and the majority on both sides are not hitting the mark, IMHO.

As for my thoughts?

I felt like, starting about 4-5 years ago, Gost seemed to lose his technique, in a totally subjective, eye-test sense. I really have no objective basis for this, but around the time the kickoff was moved forward and the XP was moved back, Gost seemed to start clipping the ball more, as opposed to driving his field goals; his kicks seem to drift more, and his makes were occasionally trailing off late and sneaking in.

Additionally, we started to notice a trend: he seemed shaky early season and in the postseason, seeming to miss an XP or two during those two windows of the season.

Ever since then I didn't entirely trust him kicking the ball, although statistically, yes, aggregated over the course of each season he's been very good.

This season mirrored the aforementioned trend, but he hasn't shaken off the early-season yips as he generally does, and the misses have continued frequently enough for most to acknowledge that he is struggling at present.

The other element to this whole discussion is the holder, which in past seasons had largely been blamed for Gost's struggles, but we never got a genuine feel for what percentage of Gost's misses were actually the fault of the holder. I think we've reached a point now where Gost himself has admitted the issue (insofar as this season) is largely his own.

All that said, he's the kicker of the team and I fully support him and want to see him succeed. I tend to think that he's the best option relative to the FAs out there. We shall see.

GREAT POST! That is when I started noticing the trend also. Some see it, some dont. Eye test vs statistics. That is why scouts go to look at players and dont just look at statistics.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Imagine if he had an account? lol

Me may have one

 

[The Brandon Five]

I'm pretty confident he's @mosslost

My money's on Dikembe.

 

[Lavictoire]

I believe he is injured. If he has to have surgery then its the off season. But he may not make it until then and they made need a replacement guy for the time being.

So I ask WTF does this have to do with last year....and he was not bad last year.

Oh, I get it, CLs can finally say they were right about something they knew nothing about.

So now he's injured? What happened to its preseason, its Bailey, its Miami (where the Super bowl will be by the way).

 

[patsrj]

Kickers with the best FG% from 2015-2018 (min 10 attempts), who are currently not on an NFL roster

•Travis Coons (87.5% FG, 90% XP)

•Greg Joseph (85%, 86.2%)

•Kai Forbath (83.6%, 90.1%)

•Mike Nugent (82.9%, 90%)

•Nick Novak (82.7%, 91.9%)

•Caleb Sturgis (82.3%, 88.2%)

Not so many (if any) great names out there.. All have worse numbers than ghost in fg and xp

Edit- couldn't copy the Twitter that has the info

 

[luuked]

GREAT POST! That is when I started noticing the trend also. Some see it, some dont. Eye test vs statistics. That is why scouts go to look at players and dont just look at statistics.

Here we go.. the "eye test" is back on the table. When the stats and facts don't support your bias this is what people turn to.

And this is how we get this utterly garbage and unsupported narrative of "something is wrong with Ghost since 2015".

BECAUSE MY GUT SAYS SO

Just fcuking stick with 2019 and that he has issues with XPs and almost nobody will argue with you. But you have to spin this grand tale that spans seasons.