Patriots vs Bengals Post-Game Thread

[Brady6]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Here's your problem:



You've already said that "I'm right, and if you argue otherwise you automatically wrong."

That's not a valid argument.

The reality is that if you take the Patriots 53 man roster at its current state (injuries, inexperience, etc. included) and match it up against other top NFL teams other than these spots listed below:

QB – Brady
WR – Edelman
OL – Solder | Mankins | Vollmer | Wendell
DL – Jones | Ninkovich | Kelly*
LB – Mayo | Hightower | Spikes
DB – Talib | McCourty | Dennard

The rest of the team outside of those 15 players are either inexperience, out with an injury, returning from an injury, marginal NFL starters or bottom of the roster type players. Now could that change if some of those players gain experience, or become healthy absolutely but is that certain to happen, nope, therefore you have to take the current roster in its current condition and if you do that and match it up against other elite teams it is not positioned to be a great or even good team, there really is not any way to debate that without saying if or when something happens and those are hopes and hope is not a strategy.

My point is simple my post is in reference to the Patriots 53 man roster as of 10/6/2013 in which case my assessment of it is nearly impossible to argue, expecially if you take the time to match it up spot by spot against a Seattle or Denver.

 

[DaBruinz]

Gotta love your combination of indignation and ignorance. Maybe you need to rewatch SB 42 because Justin Tuck dominated that game playing from the DT position. He was also a major force in SB 46 from the interior. He made Mankins his ****** in both games.

Brady's game is built on stepping into his throws. He can't throw off balance, and he can't throw on the run. Atkins and his mates inside were the problem all day preventing Brady from getting his front foot planted. Not saying they're not good, just saying we have to block guys like that better or we won't be able to win a SB.

It is YOUR ignorance that is the issue here. Tuck "owned" Mankins when he was suffering the flu and from a torn ACL. Oh.. Wait. No actually Tuck didn't. The only time Tuck did ANYTHING was when the Giants rant stunts and twists. Maybe you should go back and watch the games instead of posting your BS.

Atkins was going against Wendell and Connolly. Not Mankins. And they weren't the problem all day long. Brady had time to move around and step up. You clearly don't understand that the QB is supposed to get rid of the ball in under 5 seconds on a passing play. Anything more and it's on him and the receivers.

Furthermore, you made the BS claim that it's been an issue for 7 years. It's not. Pointing to ONE GAME and making it sound like it's all the time is you blatantly lying. Sorry that it hurts your feelings. The truth does that from time to time. Maybe, some day, you'll learn to not lie about things to try and make a point when you know damn well it's not even remotely close to being valid..

 

[Brady6]

For the record though I am actually really glad they lost this game, something I have noticed about Belichick is unless there is an injury he will not make roster moves early in the season until the team loses its first game, last season we saw a lot of moves after the Cardinals game, the year before it was after the Bills game so if I had to guess tomorrow and Tuesday we will see a lot of players that I consider to be dead weight in line at Logan Airport.

Plus I think this team needed a loss at this stage I want to see how it responds to it because I really believe this type of horrific offensive game is the type to light a fire under Brady’s ass and propel the offense to new heights, this game reminded me so much of week 9 of 2010 against the Browns and after that game Brady went on to not throw an interception the rest of the season and win the league MVP.

 

[DaBruinz]

It is. Chances are Dopson will just drop the pass anyway.

You need to get your facts straight. Dobson made 2 of 3 possible catches intended for him today. The one he didn't make, Terence Newman played perfectly. I don't count it against Dobson for the interception because Brady clearly underthrew the ball and Dobson had no chance for it. The one other time where it MIGHT have been for him was the one where he rant the Post and Brady threw it to the Corner. And it was clear that Dobson ran the correct read because the Safety was breaking towards the corner before Brady and threw the ball..

You clearly have him confused with Thompkins who has dropped the ball more.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I didn't see the game, so basically I just have questions ?

1) Was there a main culprit as far as the dropped passes I keep hearing about ? Or did all the receivers have the dropsies today ?
2) Statistically, Dobson has the 2 longest offensive plays of the year for the Pats, a 54 yard reception (today) and a 39 yard reception. Where those pure luck, or does he actually have some talent and a possible bright future ? I wish he would have gotten rid of that god forsaken #17, that number is cursed as far as Patriots.
3) Were there ANY positives ? Just looking at the statistics, Chris Jones had 1.5 sacks, sounds like he had a very good game. I always liked this signing, had 12 sacks as a senior, and already has 1.5 sacks in only 2 NFL games. We might have something here.
4) I watched the Denver/Cowboys game, and I curse the football gods for not giving Brady the weapons Peyton Manning and Tony Romo have. It's actually painful to watch those guys throwing bombs all day, and we can't even score a ******* TD. We have to put some blame on BB for this (besides the football gods), how dare he not surround Brady with explosive talent like other top QBs have. I was even thinking about Larry Fitzgerald, imagine him playing for Brady instead of being stuck in Arizona. My other thoughts/questions are, regardless of what Brady has, he always had the ability of making them look good. What happened to that ? Has Brady lost anything ?

5) I really expected the Pats to lose to Atlanta, Cincy and New Orleans after we were 3-0, now we are 4-1, does anyone realistically think the Pats even have a sliver or hope to beat NO even if Gronk plays ? Personally I expect us to be 4-2 after next week. I'm just facing reality, NO is just a better team than us. And even if Gronk plays, who says this offense we have will be any more cohesive ? Not panicking or jumping off of a bridge, just being honest and realistic. I will be shocked if we beat NO.

 

[Brady6]

Atkins was going against Wendell and Connolly. Not Mankins. And they weren't the problem all day long. Brady had time to move around and step up. You clearly don't understand that the QB is supposed to get rid of the ball in under 5 seconds on a passing play. Anything more and it's on him and the receivers.

Actually Atkins beat Solder on the sack as it was a play action to the right side leaving the 3 technique DT which was Atkins on the LT, Solder did not have a good day he was also beat by Gilberry, I actually thought the rest of the OL did well against a tough What is a very talented DL, they opened some big holes for Blount – who if you wanted to blame anyone for the loss today should take the lions share for his fumble as we were moving into the redzone.What is a very talented DL, they opened some big holes for Blount – who if you wanted to blame anyone for the loss today should take the lions share for his fumble as we were moving into the redzone.

 

[Ivan]

I didn't see the game, so basically I just have questions ?

1) Was there a main culprit as far as the dropped passes I keep hearing about ? Or did all the receivers have the dropsies today ?
2) Statistically, Dobson has the 2 longest offensive plays of the year for the Pats, a 54 yard reception (today) and a 39 yard reception. Where those pure luck, or does he actually have some talent and a possible bright future ? I wish he would have gotten rid of that god forsaken #17, that number is cursed as far as Patriots.
3) Were there ANY positives ? Just looking at the statistics, Chris Jones had 1.5 sacks, sounds like he had a very good game. I always liked this signing, had 12 sacks as a senior, and already has 1.5 sacks in only 2 NFL games. We might have something here.
4) I watched the Denver/Cowboys game, and I curse the football gods for not giving Brady the weapons Peyton Manning and Tony Romo have. It's actually painful to watch those guys throwing bombs all day, and we can't even score a ******* TD. We have to put some blame on BB for this (besides the football gods), how dare he not surround Brady with explosive talent like other top QBs have. I was even thinking about Larry Fitzgerald, imagine him playing for Brady instead of being stuck in Arizona. My other thoughts/questions are, regardless of what Brady has, he always had the ability of making them look good. What happened to that ? Has Brady lost anything ?

5) I really expected the Pats to lose to Atlanta, Cincy and New Orleans after we were 3-0, now we are 4-1, does anyone realistically think the Pats even have a sliver or hope to beat NO even if Gronk plays ? Personally I expect us to be 4-2 after next week. I'm just facing reality, NO is just a better team than us. And even if Gronk plays, who says this offense we have will be any more cohesive ? Not panicking or jumping off of a bridge, just being honest and realistic. I will be shocked if we beat NO.

I think they have a good shot at beating NO. They rarely lose 2 in a row and they are at home. i expect gronk to be back and Amendola should be in better form after a week back. NO doesn't have the DL that the Bengals do and if Ridley is available they should be able to run the ball. I think the Patriots win a close one. However even that won't silence the crybabies, if they don't go 19-0 and win by 40 every week then they suck and Belichick is a bum.

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand where you are coming from. This has been a bad time for the interior line. Still, I would be more than a little surprised to see BB bench Wendell. He is pretty entrenched there, makes the calls on blocking assignments, and had a great year last year. Before today, people were talking about the OL as a strength and one of the best. Sitting a center is not like benching a WR or a RB. It is a more permanent switch, and I don't see it happening.

Before today, people were talking about Wendell as a liability despite the rest of the O-line. People were talking about it last year as well. More than a few people wanted Connolly to return to center with Cannon playing guard.

 

[DaBruinz]

* Gronk - injured every year
* Hernandez - injured every year
* Edelman -average, injured every year
* Amendola -barely plays due to injury
* Thompkins -rookie
* Dobson -rookie
* Boyce -rookie
* And Vereen out of the backfield -a RB that splits time, injured every year

Amendola played his first two years without Injury. The last two years have been fluke type injuries..

Gronkowski actually was injury free his 1st two years until the play-offs of 2011.

But, I can see how little facts like that would ruin your rant..

 

[DaBruinz]

It's f#cking embarassing to see Denver's weapons on offense compared to Brady's.

Belichick is nothing WITHOUT Brady. Brady is nothing WITH Belichick at GM.

The only problem with this is that the 2003 and 2004 teams don't win without players that Belichick told Pioli to go out and get. Players that they took in the 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 drafts. You know. Players like Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Mike Vrabel, Bobby Cox, Roman Phifer, Anthony Pleasant, Tyrone Poole, Otis Smith, Bobby Hamilton, Antwain Smith, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Jarvis Green, Christian Fauria, Deion Branch, David Givens, etc, etc.

OH, btw, it was Belichick at GM that got Moss and Welker.. Just sayin..

 

[DaBruinz]

Honestly that seems to be the case. While they are 4-1 they teams they have defeated have a combined record of 5-12 as I type this.

They play who is put on the schedule. It's not the Pats fault that the other teams are the way they are..

 

[Miguel]

I didn't see the game, so basically I just have questions ?

1) Was there a main culprit as far as the dropped passes I keep hearing about ? Or did all the receivers have the dropsies today ?

The latter. Do not recall a TE dropping a pass. Do remember drops by running backs.

 

[DaBruinz]

You know, I agree anyone saying Brady is done or Belichick should be executed is a moron. But I just don't understand this revisionist argument. The Patriots had a high power offense, but couldn't win a Super Bowl. Therefore high powered offenses are bad? Wasn't the total lack of a competent defense a big reason the Pats couldn't get it done too? Do you need a good defense in the playoffs, when your offense will be shut down more often? It doesn't mean you can get away without having any offense whatsoever. And Belichick has chosen to field the rooks that he has. So far it's kinda sucked, and that won't suddenly improve just by Gronks presence. It's going to be a gradual thing. Whether that means this year is rebuilding or not, remains to be seen.

The high-powered offense fizzled like a fire in the rain in the last two SBs. And it wasn't just the receivers. The entire offense has issues. SB 42, the Pats O-line was all recovering from the flu (some of them took IV fluid before the game and probably at half time). They weren't ready for the stunts and twists that the Giants threw at them. And, as such, the game plan fizzled. Pretty sure that Brady had a bad foot as well. OH.. yeah.. And before anyone blames Ellis Hobbs, let's just remember that he was playing with a Sports Hernia and was pitted against Burgess one on one with no safety help. And the fact that our "Pro Bowl" CB (Asante Samuel) was responsible for a dropped interception, and being beaten by David Tyree twice. Though, the first one shouldn't have counted since Manning was in the grasp, but Carrey didn't call it the way he admitted he should have.

SB 46, Mankins was playing with a torn ACL. Gronk was on a bad foot. The offense couldn't execute when needed. Welker, Hernandez, and Branch all had drops in key situations that would have extended drives to put the Pats in a situation to win. And the defense couldn't come up with key stops either.

Both times there were issues on both sides of the ball. And, in a game of inches, one screw up can cost the team the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

The fact Belichick has this team at 4-1 right now is the greatest accomplishment of his career bare none, the current 53 man roster is pitiful and that’s putting it nicely.

Expecting to be a great or even good team with your roster made up of players like this is a disappointment waiting to happen.

The injured and missed:

• Rob Gronkowski
• Danny Amendola
• Stevan Ridley
• Matthew Slater
• Aaron Dobson
• Kenbrell Thompkins
• Tommy Kelly*

*Injured today and despite his temporary return I believe further testing will reveal a serious injury that will result in significant time missed.

The injured and and not missed:

• Will Svitek
• Leon Washington - Played today, though sparingly
• Tavon Wilson
• Austin Collie - Not injured. New to the team this week.

The why are they still on this roster:

• Chris Jones - Played very well today.
• Matthew Mulligan
• Ja’Gared Davis - Special teams LB
• Kanorris Davis - Special teams gunner. Filling in for Slater
• Chris Barker - Teams need more than 7 O-linemen.
• James Develin - Turning into a decent lead blocker
• Chris White -

The healthy but contribute nothing:

• Jake Bequette - Plays on special teams units.
• Josh Boyce
• Duron Harmon - Plays on special teams units.
• Nate Ebner - Plays on special teams units.
• Dane Fletcher -Plays on special teams units.
• Steve Beauharnais - Was inactive.

The names that shouldn’t be read by the announcers during starting lineups ever:

• Joe Vellano
• Michael Hoomanawanui
• LeGarrette Blount

You can give me grief for this post but let’s not kid ourselves here – this roster is not well constructed right now and any suggestion otherwise is a fail.

I will add 1 final point – I know some players are hear for development and special teams but that does not change the overall scope of this roster.

You are the one kidding yourself. First off, you clearly don't understand the importance of special teams. There is more than just kick-off coverage. There are actually SIX different units. You have Kick-offs, Kick returns, Punts, Punt Returns, Field Goals, and Field Goal Blocking.

Furthermore, your assessment of the tail end of the roster shows how little you know about football and that you have a LOT more to learn. Complaining about Vellano starting is just laughable. As is your complaining about Hoomanawanui and Blount. Vellano's taking the spot left by the Wilfork injury. You can't forsee injuries like that. And you can't have All-Pro back-ups at every position. Pretending like you can, as you are doing, shows the lack of knowledge you have. Hoomanawanui is starting because of the Injury to Gronkowski and Hernandez's issues. Otherwise, Hoomanawanui would be on the sidelines most games. Same with Mulligan.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Did you see the 1.5 sacks, or just read his stat line? He was in the right place at the right time. He is a JAG just like Justin Francis was when everyone thought his 3 sack game last season was the first step in climb to stardom.

I saw Chris Jones 1.5 sacks. Saying that he was in the right place at the right time screams of a lack of knowledge of the game. Jones got by his blocker and took Dalton down. It wasn't like anyone didn't try to stop him. He got by them..

 

[iapatsfan]

The latter. Do not recall a TE dropping a pass. Do remember drops by running backs.

Drops were not the issue in this game, Brady was. This season Brady is staring down his receivers, and he's getting flustered at the first sight of anything other than a perfectly clean pocket. There were times in this game where his throws were Tebow-like. He is playing like garbage, and he is the primary reason for the offense's struggles.

I am sick of hearing about his "familiarity" with the young receivers. He's a frickin NFL QB. Hit the open guy. How much "familiarity" did Hoyer have with his receivers when he carved up Cinci a week ago? The only thing worse than his play is the way he's carrying himself. The Tom Brady of 2013 is a hard guy to root for.

 

[DaBruinz]

If TFB was not the starting QB the person who turned in that performance today would been fired. Hugh Millen would have done better! Awful game. When the heck did the Bungholes turn into the 85 Bears! The freakin Browns beat them!!!!!

I know that you probably have been out of touch with the flooding out there in Colorado, but the Browns and Bengals have damn good defenses. Pretending that they don't is just dumb..

Browns have avg 18.8 points allowed per game. The Bengals are at 17.4 points allowed per game. Welcome to the 2013 season.

 

[Wrath Mania]

The high-powered offense fizzled like a fire in the rain in the last two SBs. And it wasn't just the receivers. The entire offense has issues. SB 42, the Pats O-line was all recovering from the flu (some of them took IV fluid before the game and probably at half time). They weren't ready for the stunts and twists that the Giants threw at them. And, as such, the game plan fizzled. Pretty sure that Brady had a bad foot as well. OH.. yeah.. And before anyone blames Ellis Hobbs, let's just remember that he was playing with a Sports Hernia and was pitted against Burgess one on one with no safety help. And the fact that our "Pro Bowl" CB (Asante Samuel) was responsible for a dropped interception, and being beaten by David Tyree twice. Though, the first one shouldn't have counted since Manning was in the grasp, but Carrey didn't call it the way he admitted he should have.

SB 46, Mankins was playing with a torn ACL. Gronk was on a bad foot. The offense couldn't execute when needed. Welker, Hernandez, and Branch all had drops in key situations that would have extended drives to put the Pats in a situation to win. And the defense couldn't come up with key stops either.

Both times there were issues on both sides of the ball. And, in a game of inches, one screw up can cost the team the game.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I'm just saying this implicit argument some people seem to have, that the offense should no longer be a premium (i.e. it's better to have a weak offense?) is silly.

 

[ivanvamp]

Said it in the game thread and I'll say it again here- not going for it from the 2 was a huge mistake. Instead. They predictably ended up having to chuck prayers from the 30. That was entirely foreseeable from how the game had gone to that point. Rare mistake from BB.

That said, coming into the season who here wouldn't have been happy with 4-1?

Yeah, not getting a TD there was enormous. You get to the 1-yard line, have a first down, and you HAVE to get a touchdown.

But look, they're 4-1, lead the division. We all knew it was going to be rough making these adjustments. They have one of the youngest rosters in the league. It's going to take some time. The game plan has to be this:

1. Just improve. Get better. Steady improvement (with a few bumps).

2. Win the division.

3. Try to stay healthy.

If those three things happen, by the time the playoffs roll around, I am convinced that this team will be a major handful for any opponent.

 

[pherein]

That was painful to watch. I don't even want to think about the Saints right now.

yeah, well dont buy into the hype, we are not.