Patriots trade for WR Brandin Cooks (NO BUTLER INVOLVED). Gave up 1st & 3rd rounder for Cooks + 4th

[sambam94]

It's still hard to believe that we have no first or second round draft picks. I think we can use some depth at DE, LB, OL and corner.

I look at it as getting Cooks in the 1st round and Ealy in the 2nd(while gaining a 3rd)

 

[Danger Zone]

giving an aging QB a great weapon is a smart move.

Agreed.

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[TomPatriot]

Geez, buddy, how many people sleep in your bed?

It depends on how lucky I get....but last night it was 2. Note to self, change username and buy the wife flowers.

I wonder if goodell slept last night.

Well, Zoo, did he?

 

[PittPatriot]

https://media.giphy.com/media/8scSvC2gL7HO/giphy.gif
I hope he bring the "archer" celebration to New England!

 

[PatsBoy12]

Josh must be giddy with all the different offensive pairings he can put out there 2 rb sets, 2 tight end sets, go 5 wide receivers if you want.

What is good about this move too is it is almost gronk and edelman insurance in that you can afford to take it easy on those guys during the season with the depth and number of targets we have.

Which with edelmans age and gronks injury history is a good idea to limit the hits those guys take

Not that I'm disagreeing necessarily, but there is no real Gronk insurance. We thought the same thing with Bennett. We thought the same thing with Chandler. Gronk's body and style of play just lend to injuries. It's simply just a roll of the dice whenever he gets hit.

If we get lucky, though, maybe we can have a few more seasons like his first three or so and 2014 before it becomes time to talk about his future.

 

[shmessy]

Brees taking shots at him




Saints just wanted him gone, don't think there is a future trade for Butler worked out

Yeah, there's definitely a bad smell about this guy from his former teammates.

Obviously a great player, but when you have that many teammates taking public shots at you, perhaps it's time to growup.

I certainly wish him the best here, but BB won't put up with that kind of crap.

.

 

[DaBruinz]

And since injuries to those two guys have derailed seasons in two of the last four years, the move is a solid one. Especially when you don't have to give up your RFA CB in the process.

If you want to believe that injuries to Amendola and Edelman are what derailed the 2013 and 2015 seasons, then you weren't paying attention.

2015 was derailed by every Offensive lineman with the except of David Andrews and Chris Barker suffering an injury and missing time. The Pats had 16 different O-linemen that year. When you have to start 5 different LTs, that's a bigger issue than your receivers..

2013:
Amendola missed ONE game that the Patriots lost.. That was the 27-20 loss vs. the Jets in October.
Edelman didn't miss any time in 2013.. Played 16 games, starting 13.. Edelman wasn't used much against the Steelers, Panthers, or Dolphins.. The Panthers and Dolphin games were losses.. Amendola played in both..

Now, if you meant 2012, which was actually 5 seasons ago.. then you might have a point.. But, you're also talking 5 years ago. And that is the season they lost Gronkowski to a torn ACL due to a low hit by TJ Ward.. But that is also the year that Stallworth played one game, caught one pass and then was lost for the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Brees taking shots at him




Saints just wanted him gone, don't think there is a future trade for Butler worked out

The irony of that tweet by Brees isn't lost on me..

 

[shmessy]

It's still hard to believe that we have no first or second round draft picks. I think we can use some depth at DE, LB, OL and corner.

Corner is historically great if the Pats just keep Butler.

DE and LB's now.

 

[shmessy]

If you want to believe that injuries to Amendola and Edelman are what derailed the 2013 and 2015 seasons, then you weren't paying attention.

2015 was derailed by every Offensive lineman with the except of David Andrews and Chris Barker suffering an injury and missing time. The Pats had 16 different O-linemen that year. When you have to start 5 different LTs, that's a bigger issue than your receivers..

2013:
Amendola missed ONE game that the Patriots lost.. That was the 27-20 loss vs. the Jets in October.
Edelman didn't miss any time in 2013.. Played 16 games, starting 13.. Edelman wasn't used much against the Steelers, Panthers, or Dolphins.. The Panthers and Dolphin games were losses.. Amendola played in both..

Now, if you meant 2012, which was actually 5 seasons ago.. then you might have a point.. But, you're also talking 5 years ago. And that is the season they lost Gronkowski to a torn ACL due to a low hit by TJ Ward.. But that is also the year that Stallworth played one game, caught one pass and then was lost for the season.

2015 was derailed when we were relying on the Ghost of Steven Jackson for our running game and had no FB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Corner is historically great if the Pats just keep Butler.

DE and LB's now.

I think that DE they go with someone in the draft that they think can be part of the rotation immediately.. Someone who can learn from Ninkovich, Ealy, and Flowers..

 

[DaBruinz]

2015 was derailed when we were relying on the Ghost of Steven Jackson for our running game and had no FB.

ANd why were they doing that? Because Solder was on IR. Vollmer was playing hurt. Cannon was playing hurt.. Mason and Jackson were both playing hurt. Stork came back late and didn't provide anything.. And then played hurt.. Josh Klein was playing hurt..

As I said, 14 of 16 O-linemen had injuries that caused them to miss time. That includes Vollmer and Cannon.

It's well known that without a healthy O-line, you're offense isn't going to do much..

And yes, they were without Lewis and Blount as well. Point being that Edelman and Amendola were the least of the Patriots injuries that derailed the season.

 

[Brady6]

I don't know how often this needs to be repeated. Because Gilmore doesn't play the same position as Ryan. Gilmore is an outside CB and Ryan is only good inside. It's like putting Chung in as FS. Not the same skill-set.

I completely forgot receivers such as Hopkins and D. Thomas were slot receivers. Thanks for reminding me "again."

You should really consider following football if you are going to participate in a football forum. Logan Ryan covered more #1 WR in the past 2 years than Butler. He had safety help but he was still the corner.

 

[Kontradiction]

If you want to believe that injuries to Amendola and Edelman are what derailed the 2013 and 2015 seasons, then you weren't paying attention.

2015 was derailed by every Offensive lineman with the except of David Andrews and Chris Barker suffering an injury and missing time. The Pats had 16 different O-linemen that year. When you have to start 5 different LTs, that's a bigger issue than your receivers..

2013:
Amendola missed ONE game that the Patriots lost.. That was the 27-20 loss vs. the Jets in October.
Edelman didn't miss any time in 2013.. Played 16 games, starting 13.. Edelman wasn't used much against the Steelers, Panthers, or Dolphins.. The Panthers and Dolphin games were losses.. Amendola played in both..

Now, if you meant 2012, which was actually 5 seasons ago.. then you might have a point.. But, you're also talking 5 years ago. And that is the season they lost Gronkowski to a torn ACL due to a low hit by TJ Ward.. But that is also the year that Stallworth played one game, caught one pass and then was lost for the season.

You're absolutely right. The total lack of quality WRs after Amendola and Edelman had zilch to do with the 2013 Patriots losing and both guys being injured and thus giving Brady zero quick outlets to get rid of the ball before pressure got home had absolutely nothing to do with the 2015 Pats struggling offensively down the stretch. The latter is also the reason the team made the moves for Hogan and Mitchell. Just stop. You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and your logic is exceptionally weak. Pick a better battle.

 

[PATPATRIOT1]

Hopefully this guy can also return kicks and punts. Then they will be getting more value for him.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

 

[DaBruinz]

You're absolutely right. The total lack of quality WRs after Amendola and Edelman had zilch to do with the 2013 Patriots losing and both guys being injured and thus giving Brady zero quick outlets to get rid of the ball before pressure got home had absolutely nothing to do with the 2015 Pats struggling offensively down the stretch. The latter is also the reason the team made the moves for Hogan and Mitchell. Just stop. You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and your logic is exceptionally weak. Pick a better battle.

Kontra - So, now you are modifying your argument. You originally stated that it was just injuries to both of them in 2 of the last 4 years.. Now, you're claiming injury in 2015 and lack of depth in 2013 to CYA.

Patriots trade for WR Brandin Cooks (NO BUTLER INVOLVED). Gave up 1st & 3rd rounder for Cooks + 4th

And since injuries to those two guys have derailed seasons in two of the last four years, the move is a solid one. Especially when you don't have to give up your RFA CB in the process.

Julian Edelman injury history and analysis
Danny Amendola injury history and analysis

Danny Amendola: Game Logs at NFL.com
Julian Edelman: Game Logs at NFL.com

Fact is that you claimed Amendola and Edelman being injured was the reason they lost in 2013. Reality is that only Amendola was injured in 2013 and it affected only 1 game.. The game against the Jets where the Pats lost.

The fact that you can't even admit that the O-line injury mess was a bigger issue in 2015 than Amendola and Edelman being out shows how out of touch you are on the subject. A healthy O-line makes it moot who is catching the ball from Brady.

The team made the move for Hogan to replace LaFell. You know, LaFell. The guy who had ALSO been injured at the end of the 2015 season. Mitchell was brought in to push Dobson. Mitchell outplayed Dobson and Dobson was sent packing in TC.

So, you can spin your claims all you want.. Your original post was erroneous and you had to backtrack and spin to CYA because you were wrong and couldn't admit it..

 

[shmessy]

ANd why were they doing that? Because Solder was on IR. Vollmer was playing hurt. Cannon was playing hurt.. Mason and Jackson were both playing hurt. Stork came back late and didn't provide anything.. And then played hurt.. Josh Klein was playing hurt..

As I said, 14 of 16 O-linemen had injuries that caused them to miss time. That includes Vollmer and Cannon.

It's well known that without a healthy O-line, you're offense isn't going to do much..

And yes, they were without Lewis and Blount as well. Point being that Edelman and Amendola were the least of the Patriots injuries that derailed the season.

Chicken and Egg debate on the reason, DB - - It wasn't just the OL. They had nobody to run the ball (and Develin was already gone to IR for lead blocking).

It was an injury ****show all around.

This year, Moses Cabrera was the true Patriots MVP.

.

 

[Kdo5]

Kontra - You aren't remembering things correctly. Edelman was not injured in 2013. Amendola missed 1 game that the Patriots lost. That was the game against the Jets. Both played in the play-offs.

Julian Edelman injury history and analysis
Danny Amendola injury history and analysis

Danny Amendola: Game Logs at NFL.com
Julian Edelman: Game Logs at NFL.com


The fact that you can't even admit that the O-line injury mess was a bigger issue in 2015 than Amendola and Edelman being out shows how out of touch you are on the subject. A healthy O-line makes it moot who is catching the ball from Brady.

The team made the move for Hogan to replace LaFell. You know, LaFell. The guy who had ALSO been injured at the end of the 2015 season. Mitchell was brought in to push Dobson. Mitchell outplayed Dobson and Dobson was sent packing in TC.

Those are the facts, Kontra. You may not like them, but they destroy your claim that 2013 was derailed because of the lack of WR depth.

Checkmate.

It had an impact. Edelman was the only reliable receiver who stayed healthy-ish. Amendola had an injury that plagued him all year and limited his effectiveness. Dobson hurt his foot right when he was starting to become reliable and never recovered. We had Thompkins but he did very little after a certain point in the season. It was definitely a significant factor.

 

[Ivan]

Not that I'm disagreeing necessarily, but there is no real Gronk insurance. We thought the same thing with Bennett. We thought the same thing with Chandler. Gronk's body and style of play just lend to injuries. It's simply just a roll of the dice whenever he gets hit.

If we get lucky, though, maybe we can have a few more seasons like his first three or so and 2014 before it becomes time to talk about his future.

Bennett definitely served as Gronk insurance as they went on to win the Super Bowl without him. There's no Gronk replacement and Allen won't be one either but he is definitely decent insurance as a #2.