PATRIOTS NEWS Patriots Rookie Minicamp Thread

[One-If-By-Sea]

I definitely think this is fair. But I'd add the caveat that the majority of third round picks are unlikely to work out, just by nature of where they're picked. The question is: Is the bigger risk taking a player with less talent, but who already has experience at LT, or a player with more talent who needs to make the switch? I'm not saying the players they could have taken there necessarily fit that hypothetical, just that 3rd round picks all have SOMETHING they need to work on before you can count on them. And I'm not convinced that a position shift is automatically harder than trying to fix something like general athleticism, playing strength, or technique.

You're right though, in that no one should be penciling Wallace in at LT (especially in year one) like it's nothing.

Round 3 can be a RB, free safety, center, etc. who are all more than likely starters. "Majority of third round picks are unlikely to work out" applies to premier positions, which you forgot to mention. We didn't have to pick a WR or EDGE or Tackle, we could have picked BPA. Wallace was a forced pick, he felt predetermined, instead of picking the BPA who would have had a likely chance of working out.

You don't think there was a RB to couple with Rham in the 3rd round that could have started in 2024?

 

[Wozzy]

Round 3 can be a RB, free safety, center, etc. who are all more than likely starters. "Majority of third round picks are unlikely to work out" applies to premier positions, which you forgot to mention. We didn't have to pick a WR or EDGE or Tackle, we could have picked BPA. Wallace was a forced pick, he felt predetermined, instead of picking the BPA who would have had a likely chance of working out.

You don't think there was a RB to couple with Rham in the 3rd round that could have started in 2024?

Isaac Guerendo, the RB the 49ers took in the 4th round.

 

[Sicilian]

Round 3 can be a RB, free safety, center, etc. who are all more than likely starters. "Majority of third round picks are unlikely to work out" applies to premier positions, which you forgot to mention. We didn't have to pick a WR or EDGE or Tackle, we could have picked BPA. Wallace was a forced pick, he felt predetermined, instead of picking the BPA who would have had a likely chance of working out.

You don't think there was a RB to couple with Rham in the 3rd round that could have started in 2024?

Maybe, but again, how do we know that Wallace wasn't THEIR best player available? He may work out, he may not, but they needed depth at tackle regardless of whether he plays left or right, so if they like him it makes sense to add competition to that group. I don't think those other positions are definitely a better choice than a kick at the LT can, or general OT depth, but that's a matter of opinion. If you would have preferred one of those, I think that's valid.

 

[palialka]

Shouldn't have had to come at the expense of Talent.

Let’s at least wait to the season starts before making these kinds of statements…

You may be right but no one knows at this point. Everything we say now is just based on speculation from a lower level of football. We’ll know soon enough one they’re padded up in a meaningful NFL game.

 

[Wozzy]

Maybe, but again, how do we know that Wallace wasn't THEIR best player available? He may work out, he may not, but they needed depth at tackle regardless of whether he plays left or right, so if they like him it makes sense to add competition to that group. I don't think those other positions are definitely a better choice than a kick at the LT can, or general OT depth, but that's a matter of opinion. If you would have preferred one of those, I think that's valid.

Because it's been reported they were taking the WR the Bills took from FSU in the 2nd, and once he was gone they traded back and took Polk... they were taking WR no matter what. Which IMO is foolhardy, you play the board as it lays... not have a predetermined list of needs.

We all knew what the needs were; QB, LT and WR... they placed WR above LT and in my estimation that is dumb. God only makes a finite amount of 6'8" tall 330 pound humans who are also great athletes... God makes a lot of six feet tall athletes.

There were two stud LT's on the board in the second after they moved down, there were a gaggle of talented WR's... football is won in the trenches. This is why the Chiefs keep winning whether they have stud WR's like Tyreek or not. They've had one of the most expensive lines in the NFL and when they needed a LT this offseason they took one in the 2nd... one of the guys we should have taken.

 

[Wozzy]

Let’s at least wait to the season starts before making these kinds of statements…

You may be right but no one knows at this point. Everything we say now is just based on speculation from a lower level of football. We’ll know soon enough one they’re padded up in a meaningful NFL game.

Second round:

Patrick Paul
6-8 331
5.13 forty
29.0 vertical
30 bench
7.65 cone
4.71 shuttle
86 ¼ wingspan 36 ¼ arms

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Third round:

Caedan Wallace
6-5 314
5.15 forty
31.0 vertical
No bench
7.73 cone
4.96 shuttle
82 5/8 wingspan 34 arms

Look at the ^ size, strength and wingspan disparity. Talent... at least athletic talent can be measured and they do it every offseason at the combine and at Pro Days.

For this decision to prioritize WR over LT not to be a foolish one, Polk had better become a stud #1 WR and these other LT's better fall flat on their faces.

 

[captain stone]

Why don't you think it will be fine? I mean I have some skepticism as well, but think Wallace is as good a project LT as we could have got at 68.

Kieran.

Amagadjie.

 

[captain stone]

QB all the way.. guys got a rocket launcher for an arm.. love to develop him along with Drake and keep him around.

Dude's not an NFL QB.

 

[captain stone]

Break it down by position:

RT - Onwenu - he had a big market and got paid a lot, he’s at least good
RG - Sow - only one year on tape but got a lot of positive press as one of the higher graded rookies in the league. Would consider him “average” for now
C - Andrews - older but consistent and does his job, not perfect but I would say he’s “good”
LG - not locked down but you figure it’s Strange’s job to lose and they also have Leverett signed and Robinson drafted. Leverett is probably “average”, verdict is out on Robinson still. If Strange gets healthy and stays healthy he can be good.
LT - unknown

So 4 out of 5 spots are “average” at worst and possibly better, and the 5th spot so unknown - maybe it’s bad, maybe not. I don’t think it’s a dumpster fire unit.

The Entire left side of our OL stinks on ice.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Maybe, but again, how do we know that Wallace wasn't THEIR best player available?

You can look at the board (previous picks) and see that there were tons of OTs already picked, so Wallace being a BPA is unlikely. Look at the board. Let the board drive your BPA pick.

The Pats picked before the run on QBs was over, Maye has a huge ceiling and will hopefully be great and might be the BPA at QB in 2024. That is why a lot of posters hated the trade down scenarios. Polk and Wallace were picked after the runs at WR and LT were over, so they both have limited ceilings. If Wallace was picked to be our RT of the future I would like the pick, but we signed Onwenu to a huge contract at RT, so using the pick at another position BPA would have been wise IMO. Not very complicated.

 

[Sicilian]

You can look at the board (previous picks) and see that there were tons of OTs already picked, so Wallace being a BPA is unlikely. Look at the board. Let the board drive your BPA pick.

The Pats picked before the run on QBs was over, Maye has a huge ceiling and will hopefully be great and might be the BPA at QB in 2024. That is why a lot of posters hated the trade down scenarios. Polk and Wallace were picked after the runs at WR and LT were over, so they both have limited ceilings. If Wallace was picked to be our RT of the future I would like the pick, but we signed Onwenu to a huge contract at RT, so using the pick at another position BPA would have been wise IMO. Not very complicated.

Hard disagree here. It's VERY complicated, and attempts to simplify it always fall flat to me. If things were as obvious as people say here, there would be no misses. Guys would just go in their predetermined universal order and the draft would only need to be two rounds long (because there are rarely 64 guys that make a real impact from each class). But it's not that simple. I'm willing to see how these players pan out before declaring them a mistake. You have every right to your opinion as of today though.

 

[captain stone]

Tristen Wirfs played only RT at college and his first 2 seasons in the NFL. This past season he was one of the best LT playing that spot for his first time.

Not claiming Wallace is the player Wirfs is, but it shows that a player doesn't need to have been a starter at LT in college in order to play LT in the NFL

It was only a handful of games there, but Wirfs did start some at LT at Iowa.

 

[Real fan 02]

Dude's not an NFL QB.

Your right, what was wolf thinking taking a guy with this type of arm in the draft... I'm sure he Zapp can do better right!

 

[Real fan 02]

Dude's not an NFL QB.

@PatsFan2

I'm sure it will Bill a tough decision to cut zapper over bombs away Milton.

 

[Sicilian]

Your right, what was wolf thinking taking a guy with this type of arm in the draft... I'm sure he Zapp can do better right!

I'm intrigued by Milton as well, but I think it's clips like this that work AGAINST the idea that he's got a future at QB in the NFL. Because all 32 teams decided a minimum of five times that, even with all that arm strength and athleticism, Milton wasn't worth taking in the draft. His strengths are eye-popping, but his warts are massive. If they were just the normal flaws, he would have gone in the first three rounds guaranteed.

 

[reflexblue]

Because it's been reported they were taking the WR the Bills took from FSU in the 2nd, and once he was gone they traded back and took Polk... they were taking WR no matter what. Which IMO is foolhardy, you play the board as it lays... not have a predetermined list of needs.

We all knew what the needs were; QB, LT and WR... they placed WR above LT and in my estimation that is dumb. God only makes a finite amount of 6'8" tall 330 pound humans who are also great athletes... God makes a lot of six feet tall athletes.

There were two stud LT's on the board in the second after they moved down, there were a gaggle of talented WR's... football is won in the trenches. This is why the Chiefs keep winning whether they have stud WR's like Tyreek or not. They've had one of the most expensive lines in the NFL and when they needed a LT this offseason they took one in the 2nd... one of the guys we should have taken.

I think you have a point there Woz. Theres an old adage ''football teams are built in the trenches'' so going by that wolf should have taken the best LT on the board......unless he didn't think highly of those that were left.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm intrigued by Milton as well, but I think it's clips like this that work AGAINST the idea that he's got a future at QB in the NFL. Because all 32 teams decided a minimum of five times that, even with all that arm strength and athleticism, Milton wasn't worth taking in the draft. His strengths are eye-popping, but his warts are massive. If they were just the normal flaws, he would have gone in the first three rounds guaranteed.

That is fair. What he has as gifts can work in the NFL. If Zapp can make an NFL roster so can he. The position has ober time..morphed into a more athletic, throw guys open type of position.. of course you still need the fundamentals and the basics to play QB in the NFL. But he has a chance. Let him develop, and acclimate to the daily grind of the NFL.. is what i say.. as it's said most of it is mental as far as the adaptation to the pros.

 

[Sicilian]

That is fair. What he has as gifts can work in the NFL. If Zapp can make an NFL roster so can he. The position has ober time..morphed into a more athletic, throw guys open type of position.. of course you still need the fundamentals and the basics to play QB in the NFL. But he has a chance. Let him develop, and acclimate to the daily grind of the NFL.. is what i say.. as it's said most of it is mental as far as the adaptation to the pros.

Weirdly, I think the best thing that can happen for Milton is for Drake Maye to come out crushing it. Because if the Patriots know that Maye is ready to go (week 1 or at least fairly early in 2024), then they have a clear starter/backup combo for each game day. That let's them keep Milton as a pure developmental/scout team QB. If Maye looks like he's going to need the whole year, and you don't want to force him to play until he's ready, then keeping Milton means you don't have a backup QB, and I just don't see them doing that.

 

[Real fan 02]

Weirdly, I think the best thing that can happen for Milton is for Drake Maye to come out crushing it. Because if the Patriots know that Maye is ready to go (week 1 or at least fairly early in 2024), then they have a clear starter/backup combo for each game day. That let's them keep Milton as a pure developmental/scout team QB. If Maye looks like he's going to need the whole year, and you don't want to force him to play until he's ready, then keeping Milton means you don't have a backup QB, and I just don't see them doing that.

That's very sensible. Good point. The hope is I have is that maye balls out in camp, and convinced Mayo's staff he is ready. Clearly he's our most talented all around QB.. but Milton likely has just as big an arm and probably more athletic. Brissett would likely be the back up in the #2 position if in a perfect patriots world thst maye was ready to start week 1. I'll say this is going to be a very interesting summer in camp I so badly want to see winning football in Foxborough again.

 

[Wozzy]

Rookie camp reports have what we already knew about Milton coming in, as having accuracy issues.

It’s important to have arm strength, but it’s overrated in relation to accuracy and smarts.