Patriots Only Used 2TE Offense for 18% of Snaps This Season

[DropKickFlutie]

we can never see the future.... Like, If there is a 3rd round talent at the 6th round, is it not worth to invest it, even with what we have?

Yeah I hear you on sunk costs. But I think Jonnu, Onwenu, Agholar are 3 talented players being misused by a stale, lazy play caller. Would fix a half dozen things on defense first before thinking that another TE was a need.

 

[JayNM]

Yeah I hear you on sunk costs. But I think Jonnu, Onwenu, Agholar are 3 talented players being misused by a stale, lazy play caller. Would fix a half dozen things on defense first before thinking that another TE was a need.

To me, you might have a point. Im kinda tired of Josh too if Im being honest, and im too tired to explain in specifics... But... I mean, what can i say? I dont have input as a fan? I can only complain... I can complain about Josh and complain if they miss baby Gronkowsky in the next years 4th round

Will i pick a fight with half the board for this? Not really, but hey, for what is worth, i like your posts too DKF

 

[DropKickFlutie]

To me, you might have a point. Im kinda tired of Josh too if Im being honest, and im too tired to explain in specifics... But... I mean, what can i say? I dont have input as a fan? I can only complain... I can complain about Josh and complain if they miss baby Gronkowsky in the next years 4th round

Will i pick a fight with half the board for this? Not really, but hey, for what is worth, i like your posts too DKF

Nah it's only with a couple crazies here who are obviously the oc's cousins or little kids. You can tell they're organizational stooges by the envy in the posts and also feeling threatened tone whenever other former Pats offensive guys are brought up, Daboll or O'Brien or O'Shea. I don't pay them any attention when they try to laughably claim the Pats have drafted great the 8 years before 2021

 

[JayNM]

Nah it's only with a couple crazies here who are obviously the oc's cousins or little kids. You can tell they're organizational stooges by the envy in the posts and also feeling threatened tone whenever other former Pats offensive guys are brought up, Daboll or O'Brien or O'Shea. I don't pay them any attention when they try to laughably claim the Pats have drafted great the 8 years before 2021

Never change my dude

we'll since, ok, im gonna keep shooting straight for just a lil bit... 100% not trying to offend u

tone it down like...15%? I think its good for everyone

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Never change my dude

we'll since, ok, im gonna keep shooting straight for just a lil bit... 100% not trying to offend u

tone it down like...15%? I think its good for everyone

It's all good. Except when some dorks snipe. Some egomaniacs try to dish but can't take a jab.

 

[Ring 6]

How could Jonnu who was an all pro on the titans come here and barely be used at all?!? Question of the century…..one might question McD abilities and decision making again after this is brought up!!! Please someone hire Mcdouche!!!

Yes let’s question the decisions of the OC in a season where he led the most productive rookie QB offense ever.
Surely playing a guy more who looked like crap when he was on the field is a great plan. I mean, hey, he had 0.1 more catches per game in Tennessee than he did this year. Those 1 1/2 catches would have been season defining I bet.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I get it. Im also a hot-head (obviously) and far from being perfect. Far. Sorry for anything too, i certainly came in ill-intended, and thats not good, thank you for showing the higher way and im sorry for this specifically too

No worries. I really don't take anything too seriously and can be a jerk. But we can have disagreements and leave it here. It's not a big deal and I can tell you get that.

Ah you know, guess hope is the last one that dies, or some other ****, right? I was hanging on hoping that Cam would return to (close to) his prime self wiht a whole offseason, time with the playbook etc etc. Obviously, wrong. Agree with the rest too

I had a solid first round grade on Cam before the draft. My first year grading. One of my favorite college QB's ever along with Baker and Lamar.

I don't even want to say how much I liked him personally bc it was abnormal but he plateaued when injuries started to hit. Carolina didn't really do him any favors either but his ego was equally a negative factor imo.

Regarding pass pro one of the more common and general rules is "BOB" - big on big (big guy on big guy), back on back (RB on LB) so teams would just feast on a team that foolishly set strict rules to "only" protect up the middle. Just helps guys know who to get.

From what I know, in a vacuum, you are right, of course. Again, if i dont read it by myself, its always with a grain of salt, like the saying says. Such is life in this world of digital age, made me too much of a cynical i guess. I only say this bc i do think DPK has some football knowledge (imo) and so, to me, that does sound weird

Dont worry man, if every things come forward is like, im not afraid to expose my thoughts fully. I know that Im plenty wrong, i come here to learn at end, for real. You (and others) are a great source of that

Fair points. The that bad part ill give credit to your belief that Jonnu will improve, which i hope so too. We'll see.
Dont know nothing about them or any other prospect lol. Ill trust you and other gurus here
But seriously, ty for the answer and kindness. I like your posts BGC

Likely is from Cambridge, local kid. Very interested in how he test at the combine. He moves a little different than most and looks athletic to say the least. 6'4/250 and looks about 4.5 ish. He's made some unbelievable rec's during his time. Some incredible 50/50 catches, one handed catches, in the end zone, deep MOF, sidelines. He comes down with some crazy rec's. Just a knack for it. Really like his contact balance and ability to make the first guy miss.
I've seen him improve on stalk blocking and inline over the years. Blocks from his feet / hips up. Not a killer but plus imo. And you have to block to play on that offense. It's a hybrid triple option so you're not staying on the field of you can't block and aren't willing.
Quick off the line. Smooth release and all around running routes. I've seen him work option routes and use leverage to his advantage on many plays.

I really like him and again he's from around here.

Charlie Kolar reminds me a little bit of Hunter Henry. Natural hands. Deceptive play speed. Smooth doesn't lose speed moving through route from release to catch point even though he's not explosive. Tough works through contact. Good job extending his hands at / through the catch point. Plus hands. Very good at the top of the route. Has to get stronger overall imo and play with more discipline blocking inline. Doesn't have much COD / change of direction.

Grant Calcaterra is a big slot with speed to threaten Saf's. Mismatch if he's right. Multiple concussions and retired actually for a short period I believe. Plus hands, route runner and athleticism. He's strictly a flex TE now and if healthy that's really all he'll need to be with his skill set. He's had a tough go of it though. Really wish him the best.

I wouldn't invest a high pick at TE tbh but would take a shot after our first 3 picks if we had someone we really liked fall. Henry missed some time in his career and Smith had a rough year but the position isn't quite as dire as most make it out to be imo. It needs work but in context - rookie QB, two new TE's, banged up OL for a period ... If we're healthy I'm happy at that spot for the most part.

To me, you might have a point. Im kinda tired of Josh too if Im being honest, and im too tired to explain in specifics... But... I mean, what can i say? I dont have input as a fan? I can only complain... I can complain about Josh and complain if they miss baby Gronkowsky in the next years 4th round

Will i pick a fight with half the board for this? Not really, but hey, for what is worth, i like your posts too DKF

I've asked for a while now but not one poster can make a good case against Josh. I'd love to hear one besides he has 5 bad play calls a game. Tbh I don't think most here watch enough football to really understand how silly they sound. There's a reason Josh has been a HC and HC candidate even after burning Indy. That's not bc he sucks lol. He's better than most and top 5-6 by most people.

But I'd love to hear an insightful argument against Josh or why he's bad. Something with substance. Not the casual stuff I see from DKF and like 2 others. That's another thing that sounds rough and harsh but is kind of true. I don't see any experts or anyone really football smart saying Josh sucks. It's 4-5 terrible posters that really can't explain the simplest things about our offense. This isn't a coincidence imo. Again not trying to be mean just being honest.

I love football so I'd love to hear a real argument as to why Josh should go or sucks.

 

[JayNM]

Good morning @BaconGrundleCandy and @DropKickFlutie.

I hope you two have a good week, and since we had one of the most amazing football weekends in playoff football history, our collective spirit has to be a bit better overall, right? Anyays, DPK, dont make me regret defending u, stop the gratuitous insults (this last time, its on u bud)

BGC, ill try to give my best answer, even doing some research. Wont come soon, but will come, i promise

 

[JayNM]

No worries. I really don't take anything too seriously and can be a jerk. But we can have disagreements and leave it here. It's not a big deal and I can tell you get that.

Ty for that, my appreciation for you increased greatly, for what its worth.

I had a solid first round grade on Cam before the draft. My first year grading. One of my favorite college QB's ever along with Baker and Lamar.

I don't even want to say how much I liked him personally bc it was abnormal but he plateaued when injuries started to hit. Carolina didn't really do him any favors either but his ego was equally a negative factor imo.

I really liked Newton too, at his peak, he was something amazing to watch. It was on that borderline time in my life where i stopped being extremely assiduous bc of life, so I 100% agree with you, with what i know. Even the ego part, although i think its a very tricky subject ofc, but in general, i think i understand and agree

For a pro athetle the "Im better" mentality needs to exist all the time. But if you are better, why improve? Very tricky indeed, a few in the game understand that b4 its too late. Newton definitely plateued like you said, he trusted too much in his raw athetiscism

Regarding pass pro one of the more common and general rules is "BOB" - big on big (big guy on big guy), back on back (RB on LB) so teams would just feast on a team that foolishly set strict rules to "only" protect up the middle. Just helps guys know who to get.

keeping 100%, the terminology is something i vaguely remember from my days in Netherlands. I was never around RBs, i was a receiver and loved all receiving-related stuff. Of course i understand the logic right? And more importantly, i remember, even when playing in the sand(EDIT - back in Rio), that running backs block a incoming blitzer, any where he comes lol. Dont know, its what I know

Likely is from Cambridge, local kid. Very interested in how he test at the combine. He moves a little different than most and looks athletic to say the least. 6'4/250 and looks about 4.5 ish. He's made some unbelievable rec's during his time. Some incredible 50/50 catches, one handed catches, in the end zone, deep MOF, sidelines. He comes down with some crazy rec's. Just a knack for it. Really like his contact balance and ability to make the first guy miss.
I've seen him improve on stalk blocking and inline over the years. Blocks from his feet / hips up. Not a killer but plus imo. And you have to block to play on that offense. It's a hybrid triple option so you're not staying on the field of you can't block and aren't willing.
Quick off the line. Smooth release and all around running routes. I've seen him work option routes and use leverage to his advantage on many plays.

I really like him and again he's from around here.

Charlie Kolar reminds me a little bit of Hunter Henry. Natural hands. Deceptive play speed. Smooth doesn't lose speed moving through route from release to catch point even though he's not explosive. Tough works through contact. Good job extending his hands at / through the catch point. Plus hands. Very good at the top of the route. Has to get stronger overall imo and play with more discipline blocking inline. Doesn't have much COD / change of direction.

Grant Calcaterra is a big slot with speed to threaten Saf's. Mismatch if he's right. Multiple concussions and retired actually for a short period I believe. Plus hands, route runner and athleticism. He's strictly a flex TE now and if healthy that's really all he'll need to be with his skill set. He's had a tough go of it though. Really wish him the best.

I wouldn't invest a high pick at TE tbh but would take a shot after our first 3 picks if we had someone we really liked fall. Henry missed some time in his career and Smith had a rough year but the position isn't quite as dire as most make it out to be imo. It needs work but in context - rookie QB, two new TE's, banged up OL for a period ... If we're healthy I'm happy at that spot for the most part.

Thank you, i had no idea of any of that.
Actually, I think Likely is the one guy i have some recollection of. Now that you mentioned him, he's definitely on my ~radar. Nowadays, I usually start caring for Draft around its time

I've asked for a while now but not one poster can make a good case against Josh. I'd love to hear one besides he has 5 bad play calls a game. Tbh I don't think most here watch enough football to really understand how silly they sound. There's a reason Josh has been a HC and HC candidate even after burning Indy. That's not bc he sucks lol. He's better than most and top 5-6 by most people.

But I'd love to hear an insightful argument against Josh or why he's bad. Something with substance. Not the casual stuff I see from DKF and like 2 others. That's another thing that sounds rough and harsh but is kind of true. I don't see any experts or anyone really football smart saying Josh sucks. It's 4-5 terrible posters that really can't explain the simplest things about our offense. This isn't a coincidence imo. Again not trying to be mean just being honest.

I love football so I'd love to hear a real argument as to why Josh should go or sucks.

This is the meat and gritty right? Ill take some time, simply bc... well, i wanna be the one to change your mind lol

EDIT - might be a lost cause, if that is the case, I WILL HUNT YOU FOREVER no, ill let it go, like an adult lol, gotta say, to me, there is weird **** going around

Thanks for the post, i didnt want it to go unanswered.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Jonnu led TEs in yard after catch in 2021, a stat he also excelled in on the Titans. But his production was way down similar to other TEs who played before/after with this OC.

Patriots Tight End Jonnu Smith Surprisingly Led NFL In This Stat

The New England Patriots signed Jonnu Smith prior to the 2021 NFL season and although is stats weren't huge, he led the league in this stat.

nesn.com

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Good morning @BaconGrundleCandy and @DropKickFlutie.

I hope you two have a good week, and since we had one of the most amazing football weekends in playoff football history, our collective spirit has to be a bit better overall, right? Anyays, DPK, dont make me regret defending u, stop the gratuitous insults (this last time, its on u bud)

BGC, ill try to give my best answer, even doing some research. Wont come soon, but will come, i promise

One of the best weekends I can remember. Certainly without the Pats playing. Unbelievable games.

Don't worry about it. Honestly no big deal. I'm not married to Josh and have my issues with him. I just feel like he's better than most and more versatile in how he can help the team. I always enjoying reading different pov though even if I don't agree so I'll definitely check it out.

Ty for that, my appreciation for you increased greatly, for what its worth.

It's how it should be here. Go after the post not the poster and don't drag it into other threads.

I really liked Newton too, at his peak, he was something amazing to watch. It was on that borderline time in my life where i stopped being extremely assiduous bc of life, so I 100% agree with you, with what i know. Even the ego part, although i think its a very tricky subject ofc, but in general, i think i understand and agree

For a pro athetle the "Im better" mentality needs to exist all the time. But if you are better, why improve? Very tricky indeed, a few in the game understand that b4 its too late. Newton definitely plateued like you said, he trusted too much in his raw athetiscism

I'm a big believer in landing spot for players and things coming together in order for stuff to come together. It's so hard to build a real consistent winner. You need a good owner, front office types / GM, HC and a million assistants etc

Pats fans are so lucky that Bill & Brady found each other. They rode lightening in a bottle for two decades. We're the luckiest fans in sports.

keeping 100%, the terminology is something i vaguely remember from my days in Netherlands. I was never around RBs, i was a receiver and loved all receiving-related stuff. Of course i understand the logic right? And more importantly, i remember, even when playing in the sand(EDIT - back in Rio), that running backs block a incoming blitzer, any where he comes lol. Dont know, its what I know

Yea so the easiest thing for a defense to do if backs were restricted to one area is just pressure the edge and try to get a 2 on 1 on a tackle. Each team is different but most use "BOB" to make things easy.

Thank you, i had no idea of any of that.
Actually, I think Likely is the one guy i have some recollection of. Now that you mentioned him, he's definitely on my ~radar. Nowadays, I usually start caring for Draft around its time

He's one of my fav's in the TE class. Comes from a somewhat complex offense. Used his noodle a lot to stay on the same page as his QB running option routes. I think if he has a good combine he'll become a "name" closer to the draft.

Ruckert, Mcbride, Wydermeyer and Dulcich are worth a 3rd if one is there. They'll be 4 of the top 5-6 in the class.

This is the meat and gritty right? Ill take some time, simply bc... well, i wanna be the one to change your mind lol

EDIT - might be a lost cause, if that is the case, I WILL HUNT YOU FOREVER no, ill let it go, like an adult lol, gotta say, to me, there is weird **** going around

Thanks for the post, i didnt want it to go unanswered.

Appreciate it Jay. You're a good dude.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is the meat and gritty right? Ill take some time, simply bc... well, i wanna be the one to change your mind lol

Agree. An idiot OC who doesn't work hard won't stay. Someone who's hard working but isn't bright and happens to have the GOAT QB and GOAT Coach to ride coat tails off, can still win rings.

At this point the offensive play calling is stale, predictable, and also very problematic if multiple quality players are being woefully under-used (Agholor, Jonnu, Onwenu). A total waste of time and the team needs to prepare to excel for a post-BB world whenever it happens (McD ain't it)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Didn't happen.

Patriots Personnel Report: The two-tight end attack is back

In Week 1, the Patriots showed the world that their offense is back to being run through a two-headed monster at tight end.

985thesportshub.com

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jonnu led TEs in yard after catch in 2021, a stat he also excelled in on the Titans. But his production was way down similar to other TEs who played before/after with this OC.

Patriots Tight End Jonnu Smith Surprisingly Led NFL In This Stat

The New England Patriots signed Jonnu Smith prior to the 2021 NFL season and although is stats weren't huge, he led the league in this stat.

nesn.com

This is just ****ing baffling.

Every casual fan knew Jonnu Smith was a slippery tight end who wasn’t a great blocker or a great receiver but was awesome after the catch. Did the Patriots not realize who they were signing? They used him the opposite way the entire year.

It’s like they’re disappointed that for $50M they ended up with Jonnu Smith, when they were hoping to transform him into Dwayne Allen.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is just ****ing baffling.

Every casual fan knew Jonnu Smith was a slippery tight end who wasn’t a great blocker or a great receiver but was awesome after the catch. Did the Patriots not realize who they were signing? They used him the opposite way the entire year.

It’s like they’re disappointed that for $50M they ended up with Jonnu Smith, when they were hoping to transform him into Dwayne Allen.

I've seen dumb posts by shills that his snaps went down because of his poor blocking. What? He came in as a known poor blocker and good YAC guy. Was completely mis-used. Either a major F up to even sign him, or once here completely misused. I plan a series on this on multiple misused guys (see the Agholor thread)

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes let’s question the decisions of the OC in a season where he led the most productive rookie QB offense ever.

I love how Forrest Gump just throws sh-t on the wall and hopes it sticks. This is not true.

 

[Ring 6]

I love how Forrest Gump just throws sh-t on the wall and hopes it sticks. This is not true.

What rookie QB offense was more productive?
All you got is lame whining, incorrect takes, wrong facts, and you run away when challenged.
Go ahead and list the rookie QB led offenses that were more productive.
See if you want to make a statement you have to cite your example or you look like a buffoon.
This is now 3 discussion you are running from.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

What rookie QB offense was more productive?
All you got is lame whining, incorrect takes, wrong facts, and you run away when challenged.
Go ahead and list the rookie QB led offenses that were more productive.
See if you want to make a statement you have to cite your example or you look like a buffoon.
This is now 3 discussion you are running from.

There are a half dozen examples but why don't you tell me how this was better than Dak's rookie season

 

[Ring 6]

There are a half dozen examples but why don't you tell me how this was better than Dak's rookie season

I already have, the patriots scored 41 more points. More productive.
0-1. Where is the rest of this make believe half dozen?