Patriots HOF nominees

[Actual Pats Fan]

You also don’t belong in the HOF if you never win a playoff game but people blame a referees call.

calls

 

[Ring 6]

calls

Same thing

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You can’t put a coach in the HOF who never won a playoff game.

It's okay for players?

**** Butkus, Gale Sayers, Floyd Little

 

[Ring 6]

It's okay for players?

**** Butkus, Gale Sayers, Floyd Little

Yes it is. Players do their job and can be great despite the team not being good. A coaches job is to win.
Do you really believe you can say the elite of coaches doesn’t depend upon success? And can you really say an entire tenure with zero playoff wins is success?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yes it is. Players do their job and can be great despite the team not being good. A coaches job is to win.
Do you really believe you can say the elite of coaches doesn’t depend upon success? And can you really say an entire tenure with zero playoff wins is success?

Of course. Holovak had only one, Parcells only two. Berry had three.

Don Coryell had three & is in the Chargers' HOF

Marty Schottenheimer had three & is in the Chiefs' HOF

Fairbanks had the least resources & budget to work with, plus an owner who sabotaged him multiple times, and still made the Patriots winners competitive with the league's elite. They were better than, for example, the Bengals and Redskins and Browns and Colts and Broncos and Chargers.

His Patriots legacy is quickly building the foundation for their success in the modern era of the sport. The team's initial success in 1974 is popularly and exaggeratedly attributed to the preseason players' strike (while the Redskins' success in 1982 and 1987 isn't). As though the many non NFLPA members and 18 first-year players on the roster were all just bums who got lucky. In their 6-1 start, the Patriots defeated two Super Bowl teams, another division winner, and two past Super Bowl winners, 6- and 4-years removed.

It is ridiculous that the same people who disqualify Fairbanks due solely to his departure, choose Parcells whose own departure is arguably worse, and whose record as coach is inferior to Fairbanks, Holovak and Berry. They want Parcells inducted because of what happened later. We should induct Ron Meyer (.545 Win%), for bringing Dante Scarnecchia along with him.

In addition to his amazing drafts and bringing in guys like Ernie Adams, Fairbanks' innovation is indisputable.

Wiki:

In a 2007 press conference, Bill Belichick said the following of Fairbanks: "I think Chuck has had a tremendous influence on the league as well as this organization in terms of nomenclature and terminology and those kinds of things. I'm sure Chuck could walk in and look at our playbook and probably 80 percent of the plays are the same terminology that he used – whether it be formations or coverages or pass protections. We were sitting there talking yesterday and he was saying, 'How much 60 protection are you guys using? How much 80 are you using?' All of the stuff that was really the fundamentals of his system are still in place here even, again, to the way we call formations and plays and coverages and some of our individual calls within a call, a certain adjustment or things that Red (Miller) and Hank (Bullough) and Ron (Erhardt) and those guys used when they were here."

--

Fairbanks was considered a scandal-ridden ***hole before he came here, with a worse reputation than Belichick had when Kraft hired him, and no pro experience.

But despite being seen as tough and intimidating, when the team was told of his impending departure that miserable Monday night in Miami, many of them were crying in the locker room.

 

[Ring 6]

Of course. Holovak had only one, Parcells only two. Berry had three.

Don Coryell had three & is in the Chargers' HOF

Marty Schottenheimer had three & is in the Chiefs' HOF

Fairbanks had the least resources & budget to work with, plus an owner who sabotaged him multiple times, and still made the Patriots winners competitive with the league's elite. They were better than, for example, the Bengals and Redskins and Browns and Colts and Broncos and Chargers.

His Patriots legacy is quickly building the foundation for their success in the modern era of the sport. The team's initial success in 1974 is popularly and exaggeratedly attributed to the preseason players' strike (while the Redskins' success in 1982 and 1987 isn't). As though the many non NFLPA members and 18 first-year players on the roster were all just bums who got lucky. In their 6-1 start, the Patriots defeated two Super Bowl teams, another division winner, and two past Super Bowl winners, 6- and 4-years removed.

It is ridiculous that the same people who disqualify Fairbanks due solely to his departure, choose Parcells whose own departure is arguably worse, and whose record as coach is inferior to Fairbanks, Holovak and Berry. They want Parcells inducted because of what happened later. We should induct Ron Meyer (.545 Win%), for bringing Dante Scarnecchia along with him.

In addition to his amazing drafts and bringing in guys like Ernie Adams, Fairbanks' innovation is indisputable.

Wiki:

In a 2007 press conference, Bill Belichick said the following of Fairbanks: "I think Chuck has had a tremendous influence on the league as well as this organization in terms of nomenclature and terminology and those kinds of things. I'm sure Chuck could walk in and look at our playbook and probably 80 percent of the plays are the same terminology that he used – whether it be formations or coverages or pass protections. We were sitting there talking yesterday and he was saying, 'How much 60 protection are you guys using? How much 80 are you using?' All of the stuff that was really the fundamentals of his system are still in place here even, again, to the way we call formations and plays and coverages and some of our individual calls within a call, a certain adjustment or things that Red (Miller) and Hank (Bullough) and Ron (Erhardt) and those guys used when they were here."

--

Fairbanks was considered a scandal-ridden ***hole before he came here, with a worse reputation than Belichick had when Kraft hired him, and no pro experience.

But despite being seen as tough and intimidating, when the team was told of his impending departure that miserable Monday night in Miami, many of them were crying in the locker room.

I have nothing against Fairbanks, I just have a reasonable standard of Hall of Fame worthy.
All the things you listed are nice, but not Hall of Fame, greatest of the great, elite.
Belichick is the only Patriot coach worthy. You don’t lower the bar when not many reach it.

By the way you listed no one who won zero playoff games.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I have nothing against Fairbanks, I just have a reasonable standard of Hall of Fame worthy.
All the things you listed are nice, but not Hall of Fame, greatest of the great, elite.
Belichick is the only Patriot coach worthy. You don’t lower the bar when not many reach it.

By the way you listed no one who won zero playoff games.

Yes, I think it's safe to say Belichick has separated himself.

I simply believe the crazy rationale that is employed to support Parcells' candidacy is not utilized equally for Chuck, only because Bill won two home playoff games without even winning the title.

The 1976 fiasco was, at that time, the de facto league championship game. Of course, we'll never know what would have happened in Pittsburgh or versus the Vikings.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I have nothing against Fairbanks, I just have a reasonable standard of Hall of Fame worthy.
All the things you listed are nice, but not Hall of Fame, greatest of the great, elite.
Belichick is the only Patriot coach worthy. You don’t lower the bar when not many reach it.

By the way you listed no one who won zero playoff games.

Jim Mora (who was our DL coach here in '82, and thus was on our sideline for the Snowplow Game) is in the Saints' HOF.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, I think it's safe to say Belichick has separated himself.

I simply believe the crazy rationale that is employed to support Parcells' candidacy is not utilized equally for Chuck, only because Bill won two home playoff games without even winning the title.

The 1976 fiasco was, at that time, the de facto league championship game. Of course, we'll never know what would have happened in Pittsburgh or versus the Vikings.

Other people being wrong about Parcells doesn’t make it right.

 

[Ring 6]

Jim Mora (who was our DL coach here in '82, and thus was on our sideline for the Snowplow Game) is in the Saints' HOF.

If you really feel that the criteria for a coach to be inducted into a Hall of Fame should not include any playoff success, that’s your prerogative. I will never agree.
Hall of Fame is the greatest of the great. A coach who does not take his team to, and win in, the playoffs at some level failed at his goal.
If you asked Chuck Fairbanks when he was hired if he felt that a decent run that does not include any playoff wins would satisfy him, and should it make him eligible for the franchises HOF, I think he would have laughed at the idea.

As far as Mora, are we really going to set out standards based upon an organization that had zero winning seasons in their first 20 years, then wanted to canonize the guy who led them to their first? 5 winning seasons in 12 and zero playoff wins was a great accomplishment in the eyes of the worst franchise in the sport, and im sure many of the voters were previous bag wearers.
Is THAT where you want the bar set for the Patriots?

 

[crawhammer]

Looks like Parcells has no chance of winning any fan vote. I agree he's not a Patriots HOFer but he's an all-time great HC. He never had a HOF quarterback and he still won everywhere he went.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If you really feel that the criteria for a coach to be inducted into a Hall of Fame should not include any playoff success, that’s your prerogative. I will never agree.
Hall of Fame is the greatest of the great. A coach who does not take his team to, and win in, the playoffs at some level failed at his goal.
If you asked Chuck Fairbanks when he was hired if he felt that a decent run that does not include any playoff wins would satisfy him, and should it make him eligible for the franchises HOF, I think he would have laughed at the idea.

As far as Mora, are we really going to set out standards based upon an organization that had zero winning seasons in their first 20 years, then wanted to canonize the guy who led them to their first? 5 winning seasons in 12 and zero playoff wins was a great accomplishment in the eyes of the worst franchise in the sport, and im sure many of the voters were previous bag wearers.
Is THAT where you want the bar set for the Patriots?

Indeed, the Giants and Bears for example did nothing but lose for twenty years.

I agree that we shouldn't set our standards based on opponents.

The longest losing streak in Patriots history remains seven (7) seasons. Seems like an eternity for us because we're in Boston. The Celtics were vilified in 1978, TWO years removed from a title.

However, each franchise has its own story. In our case, the expected growing pains of a fledgling team with no home stadium in a new league were trumpeted by local media, and national media naturally piled on.

It's the eternal, historic, incomparable denigration which has morphed into tangible, blatant bias denying and denigrating this team's legitimate accomplishments which tips the scale in favor of belatedly recognizing outstanding people who are not merely forgotten, but whose efforts are openly denied.

Chuck Fairbanks, Julius Adams, Mosi Tatupu and Russ Francis contributed just as much as most of those already inducted into our HOF. At least, you said yourself that players should not be judged on team success (although all the above were major reasons for all those wins).

In 1961, Pat Patriot was put on the helmets. From 1961-1989, the Patriots had a winning overall record.

 

[Ring 6]

Indeed, the Giants and Bears for example did nothing but lose for twenty years.

I agree that we shouldn't set our standards based on opponents.

The longest losing streak in Patriots history remains seven (7) seasons. Seems like an eternity for us because we're in Boston. The Celtics were vilified in 1978, TWO years removed from a title.

However, each franchise has its own story. In our case, the expected growing pains of a fledgling team with no home stadium in a new league were trumpeted by local media, and national media naturally piled on.

It's the eternal, historic, incomparable denigration which has morphed into tangible, blatant bias denying and denigrating this team's legitimate accomplishments which tips the scale in favor of belatedly recognizing outstanding people who are not merely forgotten, but whose efforts are openly denied.

Chuck Fairbanks, Julius Adams, Mosi Tatupu and Russ Francis contributed just as much as most of those already inducted into our HOF. At least, you said yourself that players should not be judged on team success (although all the above were major reasons for all those wins).

In 1961, Pat Patriot was put on the helmets. From 1961-1989, the Patriots had a winning overall record.

When you win you have better players. So more players belong in the hall when you are winning than when you are not.
The patriots went 22 years between playoff wins, only making the playoffs 3 times. 133-162-6. Ignoring that doesn’t make you a better fan.

I understand you have favorite players, but HOF should be best if the best.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

When you win you have better players. So more players belong in the hall when you are winning than when you are not.
The patriots went 22 years between playoff wins, only making the playoffs 3 times. 133-162-6. Ignoring that doesn’t make you a better fan.

I understand you have favorite players, but HOF should be best if the best.

Holy crap!!

If Julius Adams isn't the best of the best, no one is, including Tom Brady.

He's not Tom Neville, a nice guy and decent player whose time here spanned two eras.

Adams' overall contribution to the franchise is greater than Tedy Bruschi's, and Tedy got inducted in his first year of eligibility.

Apparently, people have different ideas of what 'winner' and 'winning' are.

 

[Steve102]

Holy crap!!

If Julius Adams isn't the best of the best, no one is, including Tom Brady.

He's not Tom Neville, a nice guy and decent player whose time here spanned two eras.

Adams' overall contribution to the franchise is greater than Tedy Bruschi's, and Tedy got inducted in his first year of eligibility.

Apparently, people have different ideas of what 'winner' and 'winning' are.

Recency bias and championship bias are at play here, obviously. I think you are a little quick to dismiss Bruschi in this post. He was very instrumental in setting the tone that eventually became the Patriot Way. I think from a cultural standpoint of championship football, he cannot be overlooked.

With that said, Julius is 100% due for his day.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Recency bias and championship bias are at play here, obviously. I think you are a little quick to dismiss Bruschi in this post. He was very instrumental in setting the tone that eventually became the Patriot Way. I think from a cultural standpoint of championship football, he cannot be overlooked.

With that said, Julius is 100% due for his day.

Not dismissing Tedy AT ALL.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The patriots went 22 years between playoff wins, only making the playoffs 3 times. 133-162-6. Ignoring that doesn’t make you a better fan.

I simply suggest not ignoring that:

Playoff qualification greatly expanded from the 60's & 70's to the 90's.

The Patriots finished 1 1/2 games, a game or a tiebreaker out of the playoffs in 1961,1962,1964,1966,1977,1979,1980,1983,1984,1987, &1988.

The Pats were a 5-seed and 6-seed in two of Kraft's hallowed 90's years.

He cherry-picks stats which make him look good - and which make his own team, prior to his purchase, look bad.

Drew Bledsoe was ballyhooed, deified, coddled, and pampered.

Jim Plunkett played his *** off, got the crap kicked out of him and his rookie records were only broken last year.

 

[captain stone]

Mankin$, Vrabel & Wilfork announced as the 3 finalists.

I'm shocked; shocked...

Absolutely ****ing Disgraceful.

Mankins doesn't ****ing deserve to be Anywhere ****ing Close to the NEP HOF without a ****ing ticket. **** him.

Too early for Vrabel.

Go Vince Go!

 

[BadMoFo]

Patriots Announce 2022 Hall of Fame Finalists

An 18-person nomination committee selects Logan Mankins, Mike Vrabel and Vince Wilfork as the 2022 Patriots Hall of Fame finalists. Patriots fans now have until May 16 to vote for the finalist most deserving of hall of fame enshrinement.

www.patriots.com

Looks like this will be a two-man race.

 

[Froob]

Should be Vrabel, then Vince. Surprised Mankins is on this quickly, deserving but he should wait a while. Vince is the best player of the 3, but Vrabel has 3 rings and a very important part of all 3.