Patriots getting the band back together, sign Jamie Collins

[RobertWeathers]

Jamie Collins
Oct 9, 2016 NFL Inguinal Hip Sprain

I know the bashing of Collins has become the en vouge thing to do & the talking about Daniels TDs in the 2015 AFC championship game is oft mentioned but He was otherwise spectacular in that game. Led the team in tackles 8, tackles for loss 3, Qb Hits 2, Sacks 2. All that & the fact him being injured prior to the trade is lost in the bash fest that has happened since the original trade.

Aside from the bad plays on Daniels he was fine that game.

I buy he was hurt but I dont think it was the reason he freelanced and didn't carry out his assignments.

 

[captain stone]

I know this was beaten to death 3 years ago but I think Bill....

1. Figured if Jamie wasn't going to do his job to move him ASAP
2. Send him to CLE where he'd get a decent 3rd rounder and direct him to a non-threatening team

Except he didn't receive a "decent" 3rd-rounder for him.

...Moving up from bottom of third round in 2018 draft to top of third round in 2017 draft was a good enough value return to send him packing...

No it wasn't.

3* 103 New Orleans Saints Trey Hendrickson LB Florida Atlantic C-USA from Cleveland via New England [R3 - 17]

People who defend Bill for trading Collins mid-season need to stop using the "He received better value by trading him now for a 2017 pick rather than wait for the compensatory pick in 2018" argument because it's simply not true.

 

[Danger Zone]

Except he didn't receive a "decent" 3rd-rounder for him.

No it wasn't.

3* 103 New Orleans Saints Trey Hendrickson LB Florida Atlantic C-USA from Cleveland via New England [R3 - 17]

People who defend Bill for trading Collins mid-season need to stop using the "He received better value by trading him now for a 2017 pick rather than wait for the compensatory pick in 2018" argument because it's simply not true. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If only the 2016 season had ended better...

 

[luuked]

I still believe the team made him a reasonable offer. He rejected it. He felt disrespected by the team. He started to play like Superman and stopped doing his job. BB got what he could for the player and shipped him out.

As far as I remember the offer he got was before the start of the 2016 season. Most probably it was under market value or at least below what his agent considered market value for a hot name like him.

And of course he was a 3 down player and a key cog in the defense. I also think there was a reasonable chance for them to offer him a pretty big extension after the season if everything had worked out. That is why he was kept around and not send away away like Chandler Jones who they knew they would not extend.

That doesn't change that his attitude about going off script to feature himself more was the main reason for him being gone.

 

[luuked]

If they sign him he will play, he won't be fighting for a roster spot. If they sign him to a 1 year "show me" deal, he'll be playing for a new contract and will put in maximum effort.

I don't judge players who put their lives, limbs and health on the line, NFL contracts are a joke and players are usually entitled to every cent, unlike baseball or other low impact fully guaranteed contract sports.

The reality is that the coach/GM of this team wants people to be mentally tough and be able to tune distractions like that out. If they can't do that then they will not get a chance at the big contract here and be gone.

Which most probably is related somehow to the fact that them being more interested in the money than success is a indicator that once they get their gigantic guarantees they might start half-assing things.

Some players are able to do that and often have longer stays with this team. Others do not and move on to places that don't put a big emphasis on things like that. Also they usually have about a month more of vacation as their season ends before January.

 

[Patjew]

I forgot about Hoyer... four returnees!

And Bolden makes five!

 

[Mike the Brit]

People who defend Bill for trading Collins mid-season need to stop using the "He received better value by trading him now for a 2017 pick rather than wait for the compensatory pick in 2018" argument because it's simply not true. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm going to defend BB, but not by using the argument that he got a better pick.

It's clear that BB is allergic to having players running out their contracts and being disaffected. It's strange, because he really doesn't mind bringing people in on one-year deals (e.g. Cooks) and it's strange too because Collins was, apparently, a very quiet guy in the locker room, not one of the loud types like Talib or Randy Moss, who'd let everyone else know if they weren't happy. But that's BB's policy. I can live with it.

(As for bringing Collins back now, I'm not in the "Collins-was-an-undisciplined-bum-and-the-team-were-right-to-get-rid-of-him" camp at all, but his injuries are a real worry. Still, even the one-legged second coming of Deion Branch contributed.)

 

[RobertWeathers]

Except he didn't receive a "decent" 3rd-rounder for him.

No it wasn't.

3* 103 New Orleans Saints Trey Hendrickson LB Florida Atlantic C-USA from Cleveland via New England [R3 - 17]

People who defend Bill for trading Collins mid-season need to stop using the "He received better value by trading him now for a 2017 pick rather than wait for the compensatory pick in 2018" argument because it's simply not true. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Logic and the time of the decision and hindsight are not the same

 

[IllegalContact]

You do not think Jamie's play Week 8 vs BUF in 2016 hurt the overall defense?

Serious? They won that game so the team was not hurt at all....****bagging players for a bad game or few games leaves you with no team.

If they had him for more years at rookie money they would have not traded him

 

[RobertWeathers]

As far as I remember the offer he got was before the start of the 2016 season. Most probably it was under market value or at least below what his agent considered market value for a hot name like him.

And of course he was a 3 down player and a key cog in the defense. I also think there was a reasonable chance for them to offer him a pretty big extension after the season if everything had worked out. That is why he was kept around and not send away away like Chandler Jones who they knew they would not extend.

That doesn't change that his attitude about going off script to feature himself more was the main reason for him being gone.

I thought in the preseason of 2016 it was reported he was offered a deal which was $9m AVV. I don't remember hearing anything about guaranteed $

 

[luuked]

I thought in the preseason of 2016 it was reported he was offered a deal which was $9m AVV. I don't remember hearing anything about guaranteed $

Sounds about right. But why would a player on his trajectory not want to hit free agency. He was in for a market setting deal, which he kinda got in Cleveland.

He made about 27m in two years with him (off a theoretical 4y 50m deal). He had the 7th highest LB salary in 2017 and 6th highest in 2018 and was just ahead of Luke Kuechly in both those years. The only people ahead of him were the defacto DEs (Von Miller & co).

 

[Water Boy]

Perhaps the resigning of Collins is for a TE conversion project

 

[Hammer of Thor]

On some of those plays, Lazar makes a lot of assumptions on what Collins’ job was. Just take the first one - he mentioned that the way to play that run is to go vertical like BB did in the SB. The coach here is Hue Jackson, aka the worst coach of the decade. How do we know that Jackson didn’t say that Collins’ responsibility is to play it horizontal? Then Lazar chastises Collins for abandoning his gap for the cutback, without any comment that if he hadn’t done that, Hunt blows through the wide open hole on the other side because the other Browns defenders were taken out of the play.

Belichick himself had said it’s hard to judge tape of opponents because you don’t know 100% for sure what their responsibility was. Obviously BB has seen this film and signed him anyway. There’s certainly risk in this signing but I wouldn’t use these examples as proof that Collins doesn’t know what he’s doing out there.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yes, and I already said he was disgruntled and freelancing... so we can either assume it was about money or instead that it took Bill 3.5 years to determine Collins wasn't very good.

You're incorrect

 

[Wozzy]

You're incorrect

So Bill played Collins max snaps for 3.5 years then realized weeks before the trading deadline he sucked... sounds logical.

Obviously Bill's ability to grade player performance needs to improve, we'll have to take your word for it.

 

[sieglo]

It was addition by subtraction when he left the first time around. Never thought I’d see him return.

 

[Wozzy]

The reality is that the coach/GM of this team wants people to be mentally tough and be able to tune distractions like that out. If they can't do that then they will not get a chance at the big contract here and be gone.

Which most probably is related somehow to the fact that them being more interested in the money than success is a indicator that once they get their gigantic guarantees they might start half-assing things.

Some players are able to do that and often have longer stays with this team. Others do not and move on to places that don't put a big emphasis on things like that. Also they usually have about a month more of vacation as their season ends before January.

Trey Flowers and Trent Brown were good soldiers right up until the end... and somehow BB didn't love their moxie and overpay them... strange.

Collins is back... stranger still.

Hightower hit the open market, teams didn't know what to make of an oversized middle linebacker and wondered why the Pats didn't tender him, the Jests made a lowball offer which the Pats then came within striking distance of, paying him much less than Collins and he came back... not so strange.

Fan forums are the only place on Earth where millions of dollars are an afterthought.

 

[50-yard-line]

On some of those plays, Lazar makes a lot of assumptions on what Collins’ job was. Just take the first one - he mentioned that the way to play that run is to go vertical like BB did in the SB. The coach here is Hue Jackson, aka the worst coach of the decade. How do we know that Jackson didn’t say that Collins’ responsibility is to play it horizontal? Then Lazar chastises Collins for abandoning his gap for the cutback, without any comment that if he hadn’t done that, Hunt blows through the wide open hole on the other side because the other Browns defenders were taken out of the play.

Belichick himself had said it’s hard to judge tape of opponents because you don’t know 100% for sure what their responsibility was. Obviously BB has seen this film and signed him anyway. There’s certainly risk in this signing but I wouldn’t use these examples as proof that Collins doesn’t know what he’s doing out there.

That whole article left a sour taste - so many suppositions.

If half of them were true, I doubt the Pats would have looked into trading for COllins last year, or brought him back this year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Serious? They won that game so the team was not hurt at all....****bagging players for a bad game or few games leaves you with no team.

If they had him for more years at rookie money they would have not traded him

I think BB has proven hes not that kind of GM.

The D played like **** that game and he saw how it was going.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Trey Flowers and Trent Brown were good soldiers right up until the end... and somehow BB didn't love their moxie and overpay them... strange.

Collins is back... stranger still.

Hightower hit the open market, teams didn't know what to make of an oversized middle linebacker and wondered why the Pats didn't tender him, the Jests made a lowball offer which the Pats then came within striking distance of, paying him much less than Collins and he came back... not so strange.

Fan forums are the only place on Earth where millions of dollars is an afterthought.

BB doesn't overpay anyone.