PostGame Thread Patriots Fall to the Eagles 14-13 at Gillette Stadium

[Stu Pidassle]

Incredibly fluid running motion

The thing that jumped out to me when Maye ran was how little effort he seemed to be putting out. He looked like he was in control and looking to pass until he hit the line of scrimmage. Contrast that with Mac who tucked the ball, put his head down and ran as hard as he possibly could.

 

[p8ryts]

I wonder why the Patriots did not get a top-line QB in the Free Agency period....oh wait, that would have been expensive, now I get it. Actually the price would have been in the 100 million range which is pretty outrageous but that is the going rate. However the Patriots would have been set at QB so they could have traded down and got a bluechip LT and WR, and bingo, they would have a legit team....

And who would that 100 M guy be?

 

[p8ryts]

Jacoby's interception. Flashback to Mac. I'm still having Mac attacks. I've got to stop having these nightmares. Oh, and then in the post-game JB throws Hooper under the bus. I'm done. I'll settle for Drake with all warts. I even prefer (gasp) Zappe over JB.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Higgins, Polk, Baker, and Douglas would be a very 'non-fast' group that would scare no-one deep. The running game would much tougher when the safeties are playing in the box.

That's definitely a concern. You'd like to have more speed. It's interesting though because at the NFL level, Higgins has been a downfield threat. The scouting reports on Polk/Baker have them as guys who make plays downfield too. But they all do it via ball tracking and body control vs. being burners. So yeah, even if you have some guys who can make plays downfield individually, the face that none of them do it via speed would be concerning.

It's a little tough though because Douglas is a pure slot. Polk is a Z/slot hybrid. Baker is kind of a tweener between X/Z. At least that's what all their projections are. So the "missing" skill set is a pure X, but that's probably the toughest WR spot to get pure speed at because usually those guys are bigger. So if Polk/Baker/Douglas all pan out, their best way to incorporate a high level 4th guy with speed is going to be if Baker develops well as an X receiver because then they can probably get a speedier Z type to compliment Polk in that spot and push him to the slot more.

 

[p8ryts]

That's definitely a concern. You'd like to have more speed. It's interesting though because at the NFL level, Higgins has been a downfield threat. The scouting reports on Polk/Baker have them as guys who make plays downfield too. But they all do it via ball tracking and body control vs. being burners. So yeah, even if you have some guys who can make plays downfield individually, the face that none of them do it via speed would be concerning.

It's a little tough though because Douglas is a pure slot. Polk is a Z/slot hybrid. Baker is kind of a tweener between X/Z. At least that's what all their projections are. So the "missing" skill set is a pure X, but that's probably the toughest WR spot to get pure speed at because usually those guys are bigger. So if Polk/Baker/Douglas all pan out, their best way to incorporate a high level 4th guy with speed is going to be if Baker develops well as an X receiver because then they can probably get a speedier Z type to compliment Polk in that spot and push him to the slot more.

Thornton and Reagor theoretically give us the deep threat. I'm not all in on Thornton because I don't trust him physically to be on the field. I didn't expect much from Reagor, but he has done some good things. Can we trust him when the lights come on? Need some coaching on not getting so close to the sidelines on those deep passes. Give the QB a little room.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Thornton and Reagor theoretically give us the deep threat. I'm not all in on Thornton because I don't trust him physically to be on the field. I didn't expect much from Reagor, but he has done some good things. Can we trust him when the lights come on? Need some coaching on not getting so close to the sidelines on those deep passes. Give the QB a little room.

Yeah I agree that those guys fill the role for this year's team. But I just don't view either of them as viable long-term, or even short term. Just from what I've seen, they flat out aren't very good.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

...So the "missing" skill set is a pure X, but that's probably the toughest WR spot to get pure speed at because usually those guys are bigger. So if Polk/Baker/Douglas all pan out, their best way to incorporate a high level 4th guy with speed is going to be if Baker develops well as an X receiver because then they can probably get a speedier Z type to compliment Polk in that spot and push him to the slot more.

They tried to trade up to get Xavier Legette (4.39) or maybe another speedster such as Worthy (4.21) (if possible but he might have been gone) in the draft but could not because the Bills would not do it for a division rival. They decided not to draft McConkey at 34 and traded down. The problem then was who to draft; all the speedsters were gone and there were no blue-chip LTs left. They probably tried to trade down again but could not; Polk sort of seems like a consolation prize, but he may turn out well. McConkey clocked a 4.39 at the Combine, the same as Legett, but straight line speed track speed does not mean he will be a great WR. We shall see if passing on McConkey was a whiff or not. Note, IIRC the fourth round pick the Patriots got for the trade down was used for Baker....very interesting; was Polk plus Baker better than McConkey?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That's definitely a concern. You'd like to have more speed. It's interesting though because at the NFL level, Higgins has been a downfield threat.

Chase is the #1 and draws the coverage. There is no-one in NE to draw the coverage away from Higgins.

The scouting reports on Polk/Baker have them as guys who make plays downfield too. But they all do it via ball tracking and body control vs. being burners. So yeah, even if you have some guys who can make plays downfield individually, the face that none of them do it via speed would be concerning.

Agreed. Baker gets deep downfield like last night. After watching Polk I think he is a possession receiver, good against zones like Meyers, but more athletic.

It's a little tough though because Douglas is a pure slot. Polk is a Z/slot hybrid. Baker is kind of a tweener between X/Z. At least that's what all their projections are. So the "missing" skill set is a pure X, but that's probably the toughest WR spot to get pure speed at because usually those guys are bigger. So if Polk/Baker/Douglas all pan out, their best way to incorporate a high level 4th guy with speed is going to be if Baker develops well as an X receiver because then they can probably get a speedier Z type to compliment Polk in that spot and push him to the slot more.

I agree. Tyreek Hill and Jamar Chase are smaller Xs, but your point is still valid even though there are a few exceptions.

The Pats have always, except when we had Moss, used an X that is very fast but not a #1. That might have been a BB thing, or maybe they will continue that approach with Thornton/Reagor. Either way all of this is meaningless if Brissett is the QB, he can not throw a deep ball.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

They tried to trade up to get Xavier Legette (4.39) or maybe another speedster such as Worthy (4.21) (if possible but he might have been gone) in the draft but could not because the Bills would not do it for a division rival. They decided not to draft McConkey at 34 and traded down. The problem then was who to draft; all the speedsters were gone and there were no blue-chip LTs left. They probably tried to trade down again but could not; Polk sort of seems like a consolation prize, but he may turn out well. McConkey clocked a 4.39 at the Combine, the same as Legett, but straight line speed track speed does not mean he will be a great WR. We shall see if passing on McConkey was a whiff or not. Note, IIRC the fourth round pick the Patriots got for the trade down was used for Baker....very interesting; was Polk plus Baker better than McConkey?

As others have said, they probably would have been better served after the trade down to take an OT like Patrick Paul, then look at WR with their early 3rd. It was good to trade down and pick up the 4th rounder, but overall their draft day maneuvering wasn't very successful, they were a step behind following their 1st pick.

 

[ivanvamp]

I liked what I saw from Maye. The defense looked good. Special teams was good. The offense though, is going to be pretty awful, which means it won't be a very fun season to watch from a fan perspective. Losing games 31-28 at least gives fans some action. Losing 13-6 every week isn't fun at all.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Chase is the #1 and draws the coverage. There is no-one in NE to draw the coverage away from Higgins.

Agreed. Baker gets deep downfield like last night. After watching Polk I think he is a possession receiver, good against zones like Meyers, but more athletic.

I agree. Tyreek Hill and Jamar Chase are smaller Xs, but your point is still valid even though there are a few exceptions.

The Pats have always, except when we had Moss, used an X that is very fast but not a #1. That might have been a BB thing, or maybe they will continue that approach with Thornton/Reagor. Either way all of this is meaningless if Brissett is the QB, he can not throw a deep ball.

Chase is the #1 in CIN, but the "draw coverage" relationship between him and Higgins is a bit unconventional from what I've seen. Chase moves around more so he's harder to draw coverage in the traditional sense of a safety over the top. Higgins is more that guy for them. He's the guy who pretty much always lines up outside the numbers and is their consistent downfield threat. Even though Chase is the better play, in terms of play style I think Higgins actually kind of opens things up for Chase as much as the other way around. So I have more faith in Higgins coming to a new team than your typical #2 becoming a #1 because even though he's #2 I think he's the traditional "push the safety out of the box" type of guy.

 

[The Gr8est]

Agreed on Douglas not being an every down guy. I think that the ideal role for him on a WR depth chart would be:

1) They get a true every down, X receiver
2) They have a #2 that can play the Z but also move into the slot
3) Douglas plays in the slot (#2 above plays the Z) but also a guy to share time with (#4 below)
4) Z/X hybrid receiver who shares time with Douglas for when they want a different look (#2 above plays slot when this guy is in)

That's part of why I really, really liked the Aiyuk idea. Skill set wise, I think he would have slotted in as #1 above. Polk's skill set seems like a fit for #2. Douglas is #3. Baker could be #4. But oh well, they'll try again next year. I'm hopeful that Maye can show enough this year that Higgins is willing to come here (for a mega offer, of course) if CIN lets him get to free agency.

Or they could have drafted Ladd McConkey in the 2nd to be the slot receiver.

Edelman clone.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Chase is the #1 in CIN, but the "draw coverage" relationship between him and Higgins is a bit unconventional from what I've seen. Chase moves around more so he's harder to draw coverage in the traditional sense of a safety over the top. Higgins is more that guy for them. He's the guy who pretty much always lines up outside the numbers and is their consistent downfield threat. Even though Chase is the better play, in terms of play style I think Higgins actually kind of opens things up for Chase as much as the other way around. So I have more faith in Higgins coming to a new team than your typical #2 becoming a #1 because even though he's #2 I think he's the traditional "push the safety out of the box" type of guy.

Great post.

I am a little bit out of my water understanding the X receivers that have above average speed (are not really fast) and outmuscle and outjump the defender. It is easier to understand guys like Moss that out run and outjump competition, and guys like Thornton that only outrun guys.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Or they could have drafted Ladd McConkey in the 2nd to be the slot receiver.

Edelman clone.

That is the Big Question this year. Instead of drafting McConkey, they traded down and got Polk plus Baker. We shall see if this was the correct move; right now it looks like a draw....but we will see.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I would like to see Maye play the first half next week and Milton the second half. JB has gotten most of the starting reps in training camp and he still looks awful.

I would love to see Milton with the first unit, just to see what he has got when he is not running for his life and trying to hit covered WRs.

 

[reflexblue]

When Baker was finally Drafted he said some explicits about what took em so long. I have some explicits for him when are you going explicitly catch an explicit football .

Yeah, i don't think anyone would be getting up and out of their wheelchairs last night.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Or they could have drafted Ladd McConkey in the 2nd to be the slot receiver.

Edelman clone.

I'm sure his career will definitely be tracked and measured against Polk's around here.

It will also be interesting to see your "Edelman clone" comment and how that looks in the new offense. There were examples of WRs that we brought in who didn't fit the Brady offenses well. The reverse holds true too where guys fit with Brady offenses didn't have success elsewhere. The new scheme and Maye as a passer himself are going to be different than Brady, so we'll see how that translates to the type of WRs that perform best here.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Yeah, i don't think anyone would be getting up and out of their wheelchairs last night.

I almost did on the long bomb! A few inches shorter on that pass, and we would have all been raving about Baker today....

 

[Lagaffe_07]

 

[Grogan14]

I was disappointed with Baker last night. Unreliable hands.
He won’t be cut but I think he may be overrated.
I think Boutte is better