Patriots cut safety Brandon Meriweather(merged jumbo thread)

[Joker]

Re: Meriweather signs with the Bears

that...and tweeeting about how bombed you are and making oblique references to how many blunts you've puffed

 

[BigMike]

Re: Meriweather signs with the Bears

VIP on Swole' in the windy city! Have fun with this freestylin man child, Lovie!

http://www.howigit.com/2011/07/19/brandon-meriweather-drops-vip-rap/

 

[Disco Volante]

Re: Meriweather signs with the Bears

I went to bed last night thinking he was with the Jets, good to know that's not the case.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

I hope Dowling stays at CB- he has excellent man coverage technique that would be wasted if he were moved to safety. Size is not so important at safety (instinct and technique is) as it is at corner where you simply can't let the receiver dictate off the line if you want to be known as a good corner. In the small sample size that Dowling has given us in the 4th preseason game, he really disrupted the routes of the receivers lined up against him.

Actually safety is becoming more and more important in the NFL these days. Look at the impact a Troy Polamalu or an Ed Reed makes on the game.

I think the important part is to get your best talent on the field whether Dowling lines up at Safety, Slot CB, or whatever doesnt really matter as long as he gives us a better chance to win. We've also seen formations where Bodden has played the slot and Dowling an outside corner position. So I'm sure BB will be looking at those permutations.

Hey how about that Sergio Brown. BB must like what he sees a lot if he's going to give that kid significant snaps and cut both Sanders and Meriweather. As for Meriweather's release, well it became evident during the course of camp that he wasn't 'getting it' and he was even being yelled at Mayo for missing assignments. It's too bad we didn't at least get a draft pick for him though. Can we get a comp pick for a guy that we cut?

 

[patsox23]

Re: Meriweather signs with the Bears

Love BB, wouldn't trade him for any other single individual in the NFL, and I'm sure everything'll turn out just fine, but...

This F.O. royally screwed up the safety position. Unless Sergio Brown is the second coming of someone even halfway decent and Josh Barrett has found a way to stay healthy for more than 10 second spurts, it was wildly short-sighted to NOT re-sign Jarrad Page, and then release Sanders and Meriweather within a week of each other.

None of these is a Ronnie Lott clone, fine. But re-signing Page and trading Meriweather WEEKS ago, as opposed to on the eve of the 2011 regular season, seems like it would've resulted in something slightly better than the total goose-egg we're staring down now.

That's poor.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Is MCGowan still available?

Yes.

10char

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

Actually safety is becoming more and more important in the NFL these days. Look at the impact a Troy Polamalu or an Ed Reed makes on the game.

I think the important part is to get your best talent on the field whether Dowling lines up at Safety, Slot CB, or whatever doesnt really matter as long as he gives us a better chance to win. We've also seen formations where Bodden has played the slot and Dowling an outside corner position. So I'm sure BB will be looking at those permutations.

Hey how about that Sergio Brown. BB must like what he sees a lot if he's going to give that kid significant snaps and cut both Sanders and Meriweather. As for Meriweather's release, well it became evident during the course of camp that he wasn't 'getting it' and he was even being yelled at Mayo for missing assignments. It's too bad we didn't at least get a draft pick for him though. Can we get a comp pick for a guy that we cut?

I am sure BB will figure out where to use Dowling best. It may be at safety, it may be at corner. I think Barrett has shown he can hold his own at safety.

You cannot get a comp pick from a cut. You only get one if you lose someone to free agency. BB clearly did not feel it worthy to wait one more season and "lose" Meriweather to FA for a comp pick (determined by a proprietary formula).

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

Actually safety is becoming more and more important in the NFL these days. Look at the impact a Troy Polamalu or an Ed Reed makes on the game.

I think the important part is to get your best talent on the field whether Dowling lines up at Safety, Slot CB, or whatever doesnt really matter as long as he gives us a better chance to win. We've also seen formations where Bodden has played the slot and Dowling an outside corner position. So I'm sure BB will be looking at those permutations.

Hey how about that Sergio Brown. BB must like what he sees a lot if he's going to give that kid significant snaps and cut both Sanders and Meriweather. As for Meriweather's release, well it became evident during the course of camp that he wasn't 'getting it' and he was even being yelled at Mayo for missing assignments. It's too bad we didn't at least get a draft pick for him though. Can we get a comp pick for a guy that we cut?

It was getting evident from reporters and ex players at practice that Merriweather wasnt "getting it". Im not sure if they're doing something different back there and he couldnt catch on but that was why there was so much speculation BB was gonna give him the axe.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Duly noted...and I'll make an honest attempt to harness my contempt for these trolls.

If you think you are going to read anything worthwhile from Ray Ray 19/Jetfan1, I suggest you investigate his background at J.I. He has only one agenda...all Pats players and moves are inferior to anything the Jets and Rex Ryan have or are doing. THAT is why I asked him to answer a simple question...and THAT is why he refused and continues to refuse. You want to carry on a discussion with someone who is an intractable homer.

Thanks Joker; I appreciate the effort and the info.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

Wonder if BB has something up his sleeve!

Well That's Bein Optimistic Bein That BB Cuts Off His Sleeves.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Pats trying to trade Brandon Merriweather

Actually safety is becoming more and more important in the NFL these days. Look at the impact a Troy Polamalu or an Ed Reed makes on the game.

I think the important part is to get your best talent on the field whether Dowling lines up at Safety, Slot CB, or whatever doesnt really matter as long as he gives us a better chance to win. We've also seen formations where Bodden has played the slot and Dowling an outside corner position. So I'm sure BB will be looking at those permutations.

Hey how about that Sergio Brown. BB must like what he sees a lot if he's going to give that kid significant snaps and cut both Sanders and Meriweather. As for Meriweather's release, well it became evident during the course of camp that he wasn't 'getting it' and he was even being yelled at Mayo for missing assignments. It's too bad we didn't at least get a draft pick for him though. Can we get a comp pick for a guy that we cut?

The top two players at any position are extremely important. FWIW, I'd argue that Revis and Asomugha do more to help their teams win than Reed and Polamalu, although I dunno how much that says of the relative importance of corners vs. safeties.

 

[Simkin]

IMO McGowan is just in the middel of Brandon and Sanders. More ceiling than Sanders, anda more secure thing than Brandon.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Although I brought up the Cover 1, I doubt the Pats would use it much at all. No team uses the Cover 1 except sparingly because it is not a play that has a high success rate unless you blitz multiple defenders and you might do it two or three times a game. It is just a man scheme coverage. There has never been a team that use the Cover 1 as a base or more than a half dozen times in a game.

But you cannot freelance in the Cover 1. The FS in the Cover 1 is the last line of defense just like he is in a cover 2. If he freelances and gambles wrong, he can turn a 15 yard reception into a 60 yard TD. The FS responsibility in the Cover 1 is the same as the Cover 2 except that he has to cover twice as much field and he must decide which CB needs the most help. The big difference is that the team is more agressive at the point of attack in the Cover 1 sending extra rushers. Typically, in the Cover 1, the safety is the last guy who can do freelancing and he is used more as insurance that gambling on a bllitz doesn't cost the team a huge play.

Even if they stay with a Cover 2, his responsibilities increase in a man coverage system. He will need to cover a much larger area since he is now responsible for what would have been the CB's zone. That means he needs to be more disciplined and diagnose the play and pick his coverage (or provide run support). He needs to decide whether he needs to provide over the top help or pick up another open receiver. He freelances or guesses wrong, he could give a receiver a 20 yard cushion to get YAC.

In zone coverage, he still has to make some of the same decisions but since he is covering much less field and since the CBs are also in a zone and typically no more a few yards away. The risk, reward in a zone coverage is far less than in man. Because if he freelances or guesses wrong, there is usually another defender who can get to the receiver within 5 yards.

To say that it is the same as cutting Ty Warren because they are moving to a 4-3 is wrong. In man coverage, the safety's responsibility chances because the CBs are not playing a zone meaning the CB zone is open in a lot of cases and the FS has to cover that zone. If the Pats stay with a 2 gap 3-4, Warren's responsibilities stay pretty much the same. I think safeties need to be more disciplined in a man coverage system than less.

What Meriweather needs is a system like the Tampa 2 or the Steelers' defense where freelancing is allowed.

I just don't agree with what you're saying from an x's and o's schematic standpoint. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I understand your concerns with leaving Meriweather as a deep safety in a Cover 1 coverage -- he's not intelligent enough or skilled enough to be able to play centerfield and cover/freelance like an Ed Reed type of safety. I stated that I think that's what his preference is, but I do somewhat agree that he likely wouldn't be as successful as he thinks he will be.

But what I don't understand how playing more 2-deep with man underneath hurts his perceived value. I'd almost think it helps him if your claims about him being such a liability in coverage are true. If he's playing in a Tampa 2 system where the corners are playing a ton of zone, he actually has more coverage responsibility. Those CB's are going to be passing WR's off to Meriweather's zone when a WR is running a deep route. I'd say it's almost more challenging for Meriweather to take the proper angle and carry out his assingment to make sure that the WR doesn't "take the top off the defense" and get behind him.

If the Pats are going to be playing more man with 2 deep, all Meriweather is really doing is sitting back and cleaning up when receptions are made. McCourty and Bodden are playing their guys one on one and staying with the WR as his route develops. All Meriweather has to do is be the last line of defense if one of those CB's gets beat. A lot of times McCourty or Bodden will be fairly close to the WR in coverage since both are pretty decent CB's, so all Meriweather will have to do is come up and assist in tackling the WR -- not all that difficult.

I'd say in a Tampa 2 system, like where he is now in Chicago, he could struggle even more because he actually has to cover a WR like Moss as Moss is trying to stretch the field on a deep ball. Do you really trust Meriweather covering half of the field in zone coverage vs Mike Wallace running a fly route? I don't.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Meriweather never got this much attention here when he was with the team.

 

[JMarr]

Meriweather never got this much attention here when he was with the team.

True, but with Maroney, Moss and Watson gone, the board needed fresh meat so Meriweather was increasingly taking on that role. Looks like once you're in BB's dog house it's pretty much over.

 

[WhiZa]

Re: Meriweather signs with the Bears

Love BB, wouldn't trade him for any other single individual in the NFL, and I'm sure everything'll turn out just fine, but...

This F.O. royally screwed up the safety position. Unless Sergio Brown is the second coming of someone even halfway decent and Josh Barrett has found a way to stay healthy for more than 10 second spurts, it was wildly short-sighted to NOT re-sign Jarrad Page, and then release Sanders and Meriweather within a week of each other.

None of these is a Ronnie Lott clone, fine. But re-signing Page and trading Meriweather WEEKS ago, as opposed to on the eve of the 2011 regular season, seems like it would've resulted in something slightly better than the total goose-egg we're staring down now.

That's poor.

I see it as the F.O. took some calculated risks and is now has egg on their faces.
Jarrad Page- Pats may have tried to resign him, but he was free to go to the Eagles where he was going to be the starter day 1. If I were him I would have went there too. You can't blame that on the Pats (unless they truly didn't try to resign him)
James Sanders- This one was a cap cutting move. He just wasn't living up to his salary. A lot of people were confused when they gave Sanders over 2 million in the first place. The fans were right to question it.
Brandon Meriweather- Meriweather in a contract year, there was no doubt he was one of our top 2 safeties going into the year. But he just wasn't living up to the expectations BB set for him. If anything he was getting worse. We weren't going to resign him next year so a few weeks ago BB tried to trade him. No luck there so BB decided to give Brown and Barrett a chance to setup up and reach those same expectations. We'll see how it plays out. It was very similar to the Seymour situation in my opinion.

And it doesn't end here. The decisions that were made were with future thinking in mind. We will be better in the long run for them. Especially if Brown of Barret step up and play the role.

 

[Rob0729]

I just don't agree with what you're saying from an x's and o's schematic standpoint. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I understand your concerns with leaving Meriweather as a deep safety in a Cover 1 coverage -- he's not intelligent enough or skilled enough to be able to play centerfield and cover/freelance like an Ed Reed type of safety. I stated that I think that's what his preference is, but I do somewhat agree that he likely wouldn't be as successful as he thinks he will be.

But what I don't understand how playing more 2-deep with man underneath hurts his perceived value. I'd almost think it helps him if your claims about him being such a liability in coverage are true. If he's playing in a Tampa 2 system where the corners are playing a ton of zone, he actually has more coverage responsibility. Those CB's are going to be passing WR's off to Meriweather's zone when a WR is running a deep route. I'd say it's almost more challenging for Meriweather to take the proper angle and carry out his assingment to make sure that the WR doesn't "take the top off the defense" and get behind him.

If the Pats are going to be playing more man with 2 deep, all Meriweather is really doing is sitting back and cleaning up when receptions are made. McCourty and Bodden are playing their guys one on one and staying with the WR as his route develops. All Meriweather has to do is be the last line of defense if one of those CB's gets beat. A lot of times McCourty or Bodden will be fairly close to the WR in coverage since both are pretty decent CB's, so all Meriweather will have to do is come up and assist in tackling the WR -- not all that difficult.

I'd say in a Tampa 2 system, like where he is now in Chicago, he could struggle even more because he actually has to cover a WR like Moss as Moss is trying to stretch the field on a deep ball. Do you really trust Meriweather covering half of the field in zone coverage vs Mike Wallace running a fly route? I don't.

The Tampa 2 defense is a very simple defense that utilizes players' speed over mental abilities and roles and responsibilities. The two biggest requirements for defenders in the Tampa 2 is speed and hard hitting abilities both of which are Meriweather's strengths. In systems like the Pats' and Jets' Meriweather has a set role and and has to work in tandem with everyone else or the system breaks even in blitzing and aggressive schemes. In a Tampa 2, he will be allowed to freelance and swarm the ball. This is the type of system that Meriweather will feel more comfortable in.

Also, in the Tampa 2, the safety doesn't really cover half the field. It is the MLB's responsibility to cover the middle section of the deep field. That is the modification from the Cover 2 to the Tampa 2. It is really a Cover 3 with a LB instead of a DB covering the center coverage. So, Meriweather will have about the same zone coverage that he would in the Cover 2 here, but he has less responsibilities because the Tampa 2 is very basic in their schemes.

Meriweather's biggest weakness/liability is a lack of discpline and ability to work within a structured system and to make the proper decisions quickly. That is why he failed here last year and this preseason. In a more agressive Patriots' defense, those weakness will be exposed more. You put him in more undisciplined system which emphasizes his physical skills over his mental like the Tampa 2, he can excel. My point was he will have more trouble giving him a larger area to cover if he has to read and react more. The Tampa 2 doesn't require that nearly as much as other systems.

Yes, the Tampa 2 have had some really smart and disciplined free safeties excel in the system like a John Lynch, but it isn't a requirement. The most important requirement is speed and hitting hard.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

HOLY CRAP this IS a jumbo thread!!

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Anyone else glad that Meriweather is gone?

He avoided contact. He played scared. The only time he'd lay a big hit was on a defenseless receiver.

Made mental mistakes. Blew coverages (Saints game anyone?). Couldn't shed a block to save his life. Had a poor attitude. Seemed more concerned with being the cool guy, rather than the hard working football guy. Seemed somewhat casual and nonchalant. I think BB didn't want that influence affecting the younger players like Chung, McCourty, Ras-I, etc.


I think he'll actually have a much better career in Chicago where he should be able to freelance. Discipline is #1 with Belichick, and Meriweather always seemed to lack it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Anyone else glad that Meriweather is gone?

I'm not that hard on him but I am glad they moved on. In my opinion the problem was what Bruschi calls "error repeating," and Belichik wasn't going to spend another season telling Meriweather how he wanted the position played only to watch him ignore it, do what he wanted, and make the same mistakes in the play-offs that he was making in camp. Belichik would rather take a player with slightly less ability who will do the job right and build on it all season.

As far as Sanders goes I think that has to do with Chung as signal caller, and the mistakes we saw against Detroit were a result of too many chiefs in the secondary. Belichik wants his voice to be the one the players are hearing and leaders on each unit who are making the decisions he wants made, and Chung is his choice to do just that. Belichik will have the secondary playing the best we have seen in a long time by midseason, i guess that's my "bold predicition" as well as my view of the Patriots seconday and Meriweather.