Patriots are becoming too arrogant

[Kdo5]

I was unaware of the change to the CBA regarding Franchising (my bad). They had opportunities to sign Branch prior to this offseason, but passed. I think Caldwell is a bust, to be honest.

The reality is this team isn't good enough to win a Lombardi. I want them too, but I can't see how they beat a team like Denver to be honest.

What the hell is wrong with you?

A second round pick is never labled a bust. He was injured constantly and he has been fine here and made a few nice plays here and there. He was cheap as hell. It hasnt been like he has been dropping passes all the time the last four years of his life. He has been ok and sometimes good especially when he is healthy. Get over it Jacky. All of our WR's are easily less then 1 million a year, and what are we? 4-1. Wide Recievers shouldnt be paid highy as they are easily the least important positition on offense. Again recording a 2nd rounder as a bust is pretty incorrect. The word "bust" is used too often, "busts" are Ryan Leaf, Charles Rodgers.

 

[sieglo]

Fine, but it's always something. Let's just say I'll be a lot happier if Indy plays Denver in the playoffs and dispatches them for us. I'm in absolutely no hurry to play that team again. I know the attitude of the next-time-it'll-be-different crowd, but it's a bad matchup for the Patriots no matter how you slice it.

And saying the mounting losses increase the chances we'll beat them next time is a misunderstanding of statistics and probability.

I agree 100%. But I do think BB always brings a vastly improved gameplan the second time around in a season.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

What the hell is wrong with you?

A second round pick is never labled a bust. He was injured constantly and he has been fine here and made a few nice plays here and there. He was cheap as hell. It hasnt been like he has been dropping passes all the time the last four years of his life. He has been ok and sometimes good especially when he is healthy. Get over it Jacky. All of our WR's are easily less then 1 million a year, and what are we? 4-1. Wide Recievers shouldnt be paid highy as they are easily the least important positition on offense. Again recording a 2nd rounder as a bust is pretty incorrect. The word "bust" is used too often, "busts" are Ryan Leaf, Charles Rodgers.

Ok then. I guess I should go ahead and book those plans for Miami in February?

 

[Kdo5]

Ok then. I guess I should go ahead and book those plans for Miami in February?

I never said they were going to the SB, Jacky. But you said we didnt have a shot at the SB, which is a stupid statement considering the Patriots can beat any team in the AFC, except the Broncos who have our number. And since when did the Patriots become arrogant? They never did anything or said anything to be called "Arrogant". If the Patriots are arrogant, god knows how arrogant the Bengals are. About 20 x more arrogant.

So we cant make it to the SB can we?

Lets look at the top AFC teams right now.

Colts
Broncos
Chargers
Ravens
Bengals
Jaguars

We can beat any of the bolded teams. The Broncos are the only team I'd be concerned about facing in the playoffs. You're full of crap if you say we cant beat nearly all of those teams.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

I never said they were going to the SB, Jacky. But you said we didnt have a shot at the SB, which is a stupid statement considering the Patriots can beat any team in the AFC, except the Broncos who have our number. And since when did the Patriots become arrogant? They never did anything or said anything to be called "Arrogant". If the Patriots are arrogant, god knows how arrogant the Bengals are. About 20 x more arrogant.

So we cant make it to the SB can we?

Lets look at the top AFC teams right now.

Colts
Broncos
Chargers
Ravens
Bengals
Jaguars

We can beat any of the bolded teams. The Broncos are the only team I'd be concerned about facing in the playoffs. You're full of crap if you say we cant beat nearly all of those teams.

My opinion is they are being arrogant because they think they can win with B-players vs. paying/trading for top impact players. The theory has worked because Tom Brady turned into Tom Brady and I think BB/Pioli think this will always work.

In ranking the Patriots in the AFC, I'd probably put them third behind Denver and (maybe) San Diego (if we played them on the road). Would probably beat Indy at home while Cincy, Baltimore, and Jax are paper tigers.

Regardless, I'd say any game after round one for this Pats team is a toss-up at best.

 

[captain stone]

Can you explain further?

Willie vs Colvin - Winner Colvin
Seau vs Johnson - Even in my opinion. TJ was a run stuffing machine and so far, Seau hasn't dissapointed.
Bruschi - still the same
Vrabel - still the same

So how are we any better or worse at starting LB?

DB starters in SB 39

Gay vs Hobbs - winner Hobbs
Samuels - still here
Wilson - still here
Rodney - still here

Key Reserves '04: Poteat, T. Brown, Earthwind Moreland

Key Reserves '06: Hawkins, C. Scott and Sanders

I can see what you are talking about.

I compare Willie vs. Seau, and Willie wins - if the $$ is equal. Another way I look at it, is: I would rather have Willie, Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin instead of Vrabel, Seau, Bruschi and Colvin. I agree with you on the LB depth - it stinks, possibly the worst in football.

As for the secondary, the Rodney of '06 may not ever be at the level of the Rodney of '04. The Eugene Wilson of '06 is not the playmaker, for whatever reason, that the Geno of '04 was. Hobbs should be an improvement over Gay, but the Miami game was a step backwards. Remember, Gay was pretty darned good for us in '04. Samuel may actually be better now than in '04. Do you recall the other DBs on the '04 squad? They might be better than Spann, Iwuoma and Andrews; although Earthwind was, indeed, pretty bad.

Overall, it feels to me that our back 8, although most of the faces are the same, are just 2 years older, not 2 years better. I am hoping that they all survive this season intact; otherwise, kiss the SB goodbye. Either way, the reconstruction needs to begin this offseason.

 

[Kdo5]

My opinion is they are being arrogant because they think they can win with B-players vs. paying/trading for top impact players. The theory has worked because Tom Brady turned into Tom Brady and I think BB/Pioli think this will always work.

In ranking the Patriots in the AFC, I'd probably put them third behind Denver and (maybe) San Diego (if we played them on the road). Would probably beat Indy at home while Cincy, Baltimore, and Jax are paper tigers.

Regardless, I'd say any game after round one for this Pats team is a toss-up at best.

They think they can win with B players? They can win with B players as long as you have B players at every position or higher than that. I'd rather have myself a solid all around team than the Colts or Bengals who just stack up their offenses and leave the rest of their units for "C" players.

Ofcourse we can win with "B" players. How about 2001, no one knew or cared much about Troy Brown, no one knew David Patten and both had very good years. Troy with 100+ catches. Antwain Smith wasnt a star, Brady wasnt a star back then, the offensive line was unheralded. Mike Vrabel wasnt well known. If there was ever a team with so many "B" players who won a SB it was that team. If the 2001 Pats could do it with that roster. The 2006 Patriots can also do it. I like to trust BB and Pioli because they manage the cap better than any team in the NFL. And thats why we have won 3 SBs.

So playoff games are just toss ups? If you gameplan and practice good enough you can definitley win. And the Patriots do both well. I dont care what the "experts" say. We were supposed to go down to the Bengals a few weeks ago without much of a fight and we killed them. Obviously there must have been some good gameplanning and practice since we had B players going up against the "A" players and shutting them down, especially on defense.

 

[mgcolby]

I compare Willie vs. Seau, and Willie wins - if the $$ is equal. Another way I look at it, is: I would rather have Willie, Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin instead of Vrabel, Seau, Bruschi and Colvin. I agree with you on the LB depth - it stinks, possibly the worst in football.

Based on this season's production I would rather have Seau. Willie hasn't done anything in Cleveland and Vrabel is more valuable outside. Honestly Tully brings more to the table as a pass rusher than Willie would this season so again I would rather have a rotation of Vrabel-Seau-Bruschi-Rosie for running situations and Tully-Vrabel-Bruschi-Rosie for passing situations. I won't say our LB depth sucks because in all honesty we don't know either way. At the very least it is inexperienced.

As for the secondary, the Rodney of '06 may not ever be at the level of the Rodney of '04. The Eugene Wilson of '06 is not the playmaker, for whatever reason, that the Geno of '04 was. Hobbs should be an improvement over Gay, but the Miami game was a step backwards. Remember, Gay was pretty darned good for us in '04. Samuel may actually be better now than in '04. Do you recall the other DBs on the '04 squad? They might be better than Spann, Iwuoma and Andrews; although Earthwind was, indeed, pretty bad.

Rodney is close to where he was, I would say 80-85% and he stated that he will remove the brace until/if he needs it again. He may never be 100% but anywhere in the 90's is fine with me. I would like to see Hawkins start over Geno. Of course the Miami game was a step back, he was playing with a cast. Until Hobbs is healthy, I would like to see Samuels-Hawk-Harrison-Geno/Scott start in the secondary.Gay did play well for the most part in 04 but Hobbs is a better corner. Our depth in the secondary is better than what the 04 team finished with and the overall depth of this secondary was addressed this offseason, that is why we are not in tatters back there. Look at our IR, it is mostly DB's. I do remember the 04 squad but the ones that matter the most after the starters are the first three on the depth chart, which is why I mentionded them. Our 06 roster, anyway you shake it, is better than the 04' with the exception of experienced LB depth and WR with experience in our system. Every team can't have it all.

Overall, it feels to me that our back 8, although most of the faces are the same, are just 2 years older, not 2 years better. I am hoping that they all survive this season intact; otherwise, kiss the SB goodbye. Either way, the reconstruction needs to begin this offseason.

I agree that we should try and sign/draft a physical corner in the offseason but I hope their primary focus is on LB. And it would seem that those guys will come via FA not the draft. I would like to think that it is the LB's turn in the cycle of building through the draft, but with the Pats it is anyone's guess.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ummm.....it happened last year, Dabruinz.......

Thanks for the correction Shmessy.

Forget that we played the Broncos during the regular season last year.

Still can't believe that the Referees cost us that game. YES, I believe the referees with all their bogus calls, cost the Pats the game. Is it an excuse? Nope. Just an opinion based on the knowledge that if the referees had called the game properly, the outcome would have been different. That is not to say the Pats would have won, just that the outcome would have been different.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

They think they can win with B players? They can win with B players as long as you have B players at every position or higher than that. I'd rather have myself a solid all around team than the Colts or Bengals who just stack up their offenses and leave the rest of their units for "C" players.

Ofcourse we can win with "B" players. How about 2001, no one knew or cared much about Troy Brown, no one knew David Patten and both had very good years. Troy with 100+ catches. Antwain Smith wasnt a star, Brady wasnt a star back then, the offensive line was unheralded. Mike Vrabel wasnt well known. If there was ever a team with so many "B" players who won a SB it was that team. If the 2001 Pats could do it with that roster. The 2006 Patriots can also do it. I like to trust BB and Pioli because they manage the cap better than any team in the NFL. And thats why we have won 3 SBs.

So playoff games are just toss ups? If you gameplan and practice good enough you can definitley win. And the Patriots do both well. I dont care what the "experts" say. We were supposed to go down to the Bengals a few weeks ago without much of a fight and we killed them. Obviously there must have been some good gameplanning and practice since we had B players going up against the "A" players and shutting them down, especially on defense.

I agree about the past, but I'm worried about the future.

 

[DaBruinz]

I compare Willie vs. Seau, and Willie wins - if the $$ is equal. Another way I look at it, is: I would rather have Willie, Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin instead of Vrabel, Seau, Bruschi and Colvin. I agree with you on the LB depth - it stinks, possibly the worst in football.

As for the secondary, the Rodney of '06 may not ever be at the level of the Rodney of '04. The Eugene Wilson of '06 is not the playmaker, for whatever reason, that the Geno of '04 was. Hobbs should be an improvement over Gay, but the Miami game was a step backwards. Remember, Gay was pretty darned good for us in '04. Samuel may actually be better now than in '04. Do you recall the other DBs on the '04 squad? They might be better than Spann, Iwuoma and Andrews; although Earthwind was, indeed, pretty bad.

Overall, it feels to me that our back 8, although most of the faces are the same, are just 2 years older, not 2 years better. I am hoping that they all survive this season intact; otherwise, kiss the SB goodbye. Either way, the reconstruction needs to begin this offseason.

How was the Miami game a step backwards for Hobbs? The guy was playing with a cast on his wrist.

BTW, the reconstruction began 2 years ago. It may not be progressing as well as BB and Pioli had hoped, at least in the secondary, but it still started 2 years ago.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Regardless, I'd say any game after round one for this Pats team is a toss-up at best.

Wow, what a profound statement. All the teams in the playoffs are there because they are good teams. They all have a chance to go on a roll, catch a couple of breaks, and and go to the big one (except the Colts who will find a way to choke).

You and a few others say we can't beat Denver. Let's look at the last Denver game.

If it wasn't for giving up a couple of big plays the game was a stalemate with a slight, I repeat slight, edge to Denver. What make you or anyone else think that we can't compete and win againts Denver if we play them in January?

 

[captain stone]

Based on this season's production I would rather have Seau. Willie hasn't done anything in Cleveland and Vrabel is more valuable outside. Honestly Tully brings more to the table as a pass rusher than Willie would this season so again I would rather have a rotation of Vrabel-Seau-Bruschi-Rosie for running situations and Tully-Vrabel-Bruschi-Rosie for passing situations. I won't say our LB depth sucks because in all honesty we don't know either way. At the very least it is inexperienced.


Respectfully disagree re: TBC. Does he have even one regular season sack yet?


Rodney is close to where he was, I would say 80-85% and he stated that he will remove the brace until/if he needs it again. He may never be 100% but anywhere in the 90's is fine with me. I would like to see Hawkins start over Geno. Of course the Miami game was a step back, he was playing with a cast. Until Hobbs is healthy, I would like to see Samuels-Hawk-Harrison-Geno/Scott start in the secondary.Gay did play well for the most part in 04 but Hobbs is a better corner. Our depth in the secondary is better than what the 04 team finished with and the overall depth of this secondary was addressed this offseason, that is why we are not in tatters back there. Look at our IR, it is mostly DB's. I do remember the 04 squad but the ones that matter the most after the starters are the first three on the depth chart, which is why I mentionded them. Our 06 roster, anyway you shake it, is better than the 04' with the exception of experienced LB depth and WR with experience in our system. Every team can't have it all.


I agree re: the DBs on IR. If Mel Mitchell, Tebucky Jones and Randall Gay were on the 53, the secondary would be in good shape. I also agree with trying Hawkins at CB and Chad Scott as a FS.


I agree that we should try and sign/draft a physical corner in the offseason but I hope their primary focus is on LB. And it would seem that those guys will come via FA not the draft. I would like to think that it is the LB's turn in the cycle of building through the draft, but with the Pats it is anyone's guess.

I agree re: the need for a physical CB and, especially, the hope that the FO's primary focus is on LB. It is, exactly as you say, the LBs' turn. That's why I cared less for a Moss/Porter trade, and more for a LB/DB trade.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Lets look at our starting offense from SB 39 and who replaced them with an upgrade/downgrade rating:

Givens, David WR - Replaced by Caldwell/Jackson -(for now) downgrade
Light, Matt LT - still here
Andruzzi, Joe LG - Replaced by Mankins - upgrade
Koppen, Dan C - Still here
Neal, Steve RG - Still here
Gorin, Brandon RT - O'callaghan - upgrade
Graham, Daniel TE - still here this would be Watson - Upgrade
Branch, Deion WR - Gabriel - (for Now) downgrade
Brady, Tom QB - Still here
Dillon, Corey RB - Still here
Pass, Patrick FB - Still here but this would be Graham - Upgrade

5 starter's have changed and 3 for the better. RT is better simply because of the overall depth on the line. Pass is still with the team on the PUP. The only place they are feeling the pinch is at WR and no one knows how that will end up.

Now lets look at the defense:

Seymour, Richard DE - Still here
Wilfork, Vince NT - Still here
Green, Jarvis DE - Still here - replaced by Warren - Upgrade
McGinest, Willie OLB - Replaced by Colvin - due to age - Upgrade
Bruschi, Tedy ILB - Still here
Johnson, Ted ILB - Replaced by Seau - downgrade against the run
Vrabel, Mike OLB - Still here
Gay, Randall LCB - Still here - Replaced by Hobbs - Upgrade
Samuel, Asante RCB - Still here
Harrison, Rodney SS - Still here
Wilson, Eugene FS - Still here

Two starters from SB 39 are gone one to retirement and one left via FA and was not going to start this season. Two starters from that defense have become depth at their position.

Six starters out of the 22 are no longer with this team and the only two that can be considered a downgrade are the wide receivers. This team has added depth at every position except for LB and as a whole they have become a better team. The WR corps is a work in progress that should continue to get better each week. Reche has been decent, Gabriel has shown the ability to get open and catch the balls thrown to him and Brown is his trusty old self. Jackson and Gaffney are the two enigma's at this point and a healthy Jackson will hopefully be a solid number 2 WR option this season.

Key departures from ST:

AV
Matt
??

I am sure I am missing some others as well.

Does anyone think that the veteran's suddenly forgot what it takes to win?
I don't understand how people don't feel that this is a better team than the 2004 Pats. The only arguments that make sense to me are:

The rookie kicker argument: I agree it has to be a concern until Gost proves he can kick the game winner in the playoffs. Fortunately with the potential of this offense and the way the defense has been playing we shouldn't have to find out.

WR argument: Nobody knows how this will end up, so it is a mute point at this moment.

LB depth: The most valid argument of the three and if one of our starters gets injured then we get into the great unknown. Tully to the outside and Vrabel or ??? into the middle with a lot of inexperienced depth behind them.

They are deeper at both lines, RB, TE and DB. I believe their is more talent at WR just not the chemistry and proven playoff experience.

Overall this team is as good as any team in the NFL and they have yet to get their passing game together. When/if it does this team will be nearly unstoppable.

Well thought out comparisons.

I agree that this team is better than last year's team and stonger than either the 2001 or 2003 Super bowl clubs. It is deeper than it has ever been. It is also younger.

There is but two starters that are in their low thirties. The age that exists lies in experienced ex-starter veterans, who are backup depth. Most of the other clubs, have raw scrub rookies in these positions.

Another way of looking it is the points scored per game and the points given up per game. While this team is shaking down we are scoring at a rate of 21.8 points per game. The 2003 Super bowl team scored at a rate of 22.0 points per game.

This team is giving up points at a rate of 14.25 points per game. Every one of our Super bowl clubs, gave up more per game ranging from 15-17 points per game.

The BEST it has ever been!

The point differential between scoring and yielding sits above a TD a game. Only the 2004 Super bowl club was any better.

Now contemplate that the Pats have played two Super bowl contenders and all their divisional rivals in compiling these statistics. Divisional games are usually close. The Pats won them all, even leaving points unscored as they took the knee bypassing easy scores. Two or five games were against SB contenders which they split, proving they can beat a good team on the road. In less than 1/3 of the season, they have already faced two of the five playoff teams on their annual schedule.

A dispassionate inspection predicts that this club can be an impressive contender for the Lombardi this season and even potentially the possible near equal of their strongest SB club in 2004, the one that set a record for the longest winning streak in the history of the NFL.

 

[mgcolby]

Outstanding post AZPat! The one fact that almost every media pundit and many of our very own fans overlook is that the Patriots continue to not only win but improve while getting younger. They draft as well if not better than anyone in the league and it allows them to lose people to FA because they drafted their replacement a year or two prior. Or in the case of Milloy they signed Rodney. The one strategy that they repeatedly failed at in the draft was trying to find that diamond in the rough RB, this year they scrapped that strategy and grabbed a can't miss RB in the 1st round.

Its nice to see people break down stats and compare them to past teams. It puts things in perspective.

One thing I would like to point out is that the Points Allowed by our defense is skewed because the offense allowed 7 of those points. I know it doesn't matter to the score board but it does when looking at how the defense itself has performed. Remove the Buffalo TD and the PPG allowed drops to 13.4. That is impressive and honestly based on our schedule I doubt it will go above 17.

 

[captain stone]

How was the Miami game a step backwards for Hobbs? The guy was playing with a cast on his wrist.

BTW, the reconstruction began 2 years ago. It may not be progressing as well as BB and Pioli had hoped, at least in the secondary, but it still started 2 years ago.

True, that Hobbs played with a cast - for the first time - vs. Miami. Also true that he didn't play well. However, I expect a better performance vs. Buffalo, since he has learned to deal with it now for 2 weeks.

The reconstruction, to which I was referring, was for the back 8 in particular, not the entire team. My bad; I should have made myself more clear.

 

[mgcolby]

Anyone care to look at how great our Receiver production was in 03?

I thought so, here it is:

+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Deion Branch | 15 | 1 11 11.0 0 | 57 803 14.1 3 |
| Troy Brown | 12 | 6 27 4.5 0 | 40 472 11.8 4 |
| David Givens | 13 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 34 510 15.0 6 |
| Bethel Johnson | 15 | | 16 209 13.1 2 |
| David Patten | 6 | 1 4 4.0 0 | 9 140 15.6 0 |
| J.J. Stokes | 7 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 15 154 10.3 0 |
| Dedric Ward | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 7 106 15.1 1 |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+


Edit: here is the great run production that went with it:

+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Larry Centers | 9 | 21 82 3.9 0 | 19 106 5.6 1 |
| Mike Cloud | 5 | 27 118 4.4 5 | 1 8 8.0 0 |
| Kevin Faulk | 15 | 178 638 3.6 0 | 48 440 9.2 0 |
| Fred McCrary | 6 | 3 3 1.0 0 | 2 12 6.0 0 |
| Patrick Pass | 13 | 6 27 4.5 0 | 4 21 5.2 0 |
| Antowain Smith | 13 | 182 642 3.5 3 | 14 92 6.6 0 |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+

that is 1500 total rushing yards. What do you think Maroney and Dillon will end with? Now add in Faulk and the rest of the guys.




and why not 04?

+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Deion Branch | 9 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 35 454 13.0 4 |
| Troy Brown | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 17 184 10.8 1 |
| David Givens | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 56 874 15.6 3 |
| Bethel Johnson | 13 | 2 8 4.0 0 | 10 174 17.4 1 |
| David Patten | 16 | 1 5 5.0 0 | 44 800 18.2 7 |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+

Anyone still think our WR's won't be able to cut it?

 

[mgcolby]

I agree re: the need for a physical CB and, especially, the hope that the FO's primary focus is on LB. It is, exactly as you say, the LBs' turn. That's why I cared less for a Moss/Porter trade, and more for a LB/DB trade.

Tully may not have a sack but his pressure caused the safety in the Bills game. In this Defense or any defense for that matter you can't focus on the production of one player. Tully may not get the sack but his rush off the edge may make a tackle reach for him freeing up Seymour which will force the back to block him and the next thing you know the entire line breaks down and Warren has a sack. I am not saying that is how that particular play acted out but that is how a defender can cause problems without garnering stats. The best example of that is Mr. Seymour himself.

For the record I am for Hawkins starting at FS and Geno or Scott at CB and the other being the nickel back until Hobbs heals fully.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Assuming there is no Moss deal, it seems to me that Belichick and the Patriots are becoming far too arrogant. This "we can win with anyone on our roster" thing is getting thin.

The bottom line is the Pats are winning because of Tom Brady and a strong defensive line. The fact they won Super Bowls with Antoine Smith as RB and defensive backs like Hank Poteat and Randall Gay have, in my opinion, tainted this team to think they dont need great athletes to win championships.

The fact that this team is so far under the cap, desperately needs a WR, and is willing to walk away from getting a big time receiver in Moss has me wondering if BB has started drinking his own Kool-Aid. They lose the russian roulette battle with Branch, can't get their rookie WR on the field, but yet, they appear to be doing nothing. What gives? Brady deserves better in my opinion.

Must have consumed alot of French wine the other day...

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Wow, what a profound statement. All the teams in the playoffs are there because they are good teams. They all have a chance to go on a roll, catch a couple of breaks, and and go to the big one (except the Colts who will find a way to choke).

You and a few others say we can't beat Denver. Let's look at the last Denver game.

If it wasn't for giving up a couple of big plays the game was a stalemate with a slight, I repeat slight, edge to Denver. What make you or anyone else think that we can't compete and win againts Denver if we play them in January?

Denver is the only team that has really "figured out" Tom Brady and how to beat him. Numbers don't lie. Nothing would make me happier than watching Brady stick it up Shanahans butt in the playoffs, but I dont think they can beat them. I also wonder if there's a psychological element too similar to Indy's issues with the Patriots.