Path cleared for Jimmy's return? [SF trades for #3 pick]

[upstater1]

Or Jimmy could be extra motivated and play lights out, raise his value and get a mega contract from a new team.

I don't get it. You guys act like Qb competitions don't go on all over the league. Payton just paid Hill and then told him he has to compete with Winston for the job. Tua just watched his team gain a ton of picks with the expectation that they will take a Qb at 6.

It's the NFL. No one is guaranteed anything least of all the starting Qb. San Fran drafting the supposed next guy could be the best thing for Jimmy as there is no guarantee that who they take will not be a bust. Actually the odds are heavily in favor of him being a bust.

Actually, no, the odds are not heavily in favor.

Last 5 years, 11 of 17 1st round QB picks have succeeded. And this is considering Darnold and Wentz busts.

Jimmy is going to get yanked at some point for the player the team invested all these assets into.

 

[Lansdowne]

Jimmy Garoppolo may not be delighted to see his team draft his successor, but I’m sure he’ll stay professional and attempt to prove his worth while he’s still starting. This isn’t the first time something like this happened and won’t be the last.

Heck, look at the Chargers. They lost their franchise QB in 1997 after Stan Humphries was forced to retire due to concussions. They picked Ryan Leaf with the 2nd overall pick in 1998 and he flopped hard. In 2001 the Chargers cut their losses and drafted his replacement, taking Drew Brees early in the second round. By 2002 Brees took the job from the veteran bridge, Doug Flutie, but after two full seasons the Chargers went again and drafted another QB of the future. They took Eli Manning with the 1st overall pick of the 2004 draft, and then famously traded him to the Giants in a swap that brought them the 4th overall pick, Philip Rivers. The rest is history, much to our chagrin.

(Two fun facts: Eli didn’t want to play for the Chargers because of what Leaf had said about the organization. Leaf and Eli’s brother, Peyton, were good friends. The other fact is the Giants were going to draft Ben Roethlisberger with their 4th pick had they not agreed to a deal with the Chargers prior.)

As for Brees, even though his team just drafted his replacement, he remained their starter for another two seasons, including a Pro Bowl year in 2004 and a franchise tag in 2005 before bolting in free agency to the Saints in 2006. He went on and had a Hall of Fame career including a Super Bowl championship. Brees didn’t get mad, he got even.

Obviously the big difference here is that Brees was initially playing under his rookie contract while Garoppolo is playing under a far more lucrative contract extension he signed after the 2017 season. His value is tied to his performance, his salary, and his health. The question is how okay are they with continuing to pay franchise quarterback money to a guy who has played only half their games the last three years. It is entirely possible they keep him this year and next, and just as possible they cut or trade him. John Lynch insists he’s their guy for 2021. Kliff Kingsbury also swore up and down that Josh Rosen was their guy when everyone knew the Cardinals were taking Kyler Murray 1st overall. Can the Patriots afford to wait to see if Lynch blinks first? Who knows?

 

[AlexB]

Lol they are taking a QB. No way they give up that much for a tackle or WR. lol.

I was talking about the Dolphins, Eagles, and Lions, not the 49ers. Those teams haven't committed to taking a QB, but all could if the right one drops.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes. You must be watching peewee football. Have you not heard of Watson? That is exactly what he is trying. There are plenty of divas who force a trade: Jalen Ramsey, Yannick Ngakoue, Jamal Adams, Antonio Brown, Eric ****erson, Randy Moss, Jerome Bettis, Marshall Faulk, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, John Elway, etc... You act as if a player has never demanded a trade and threatened to hold out. I really don't know what league you watch.

Do you not understand what leverage is?

 

[Love The Drake]

Lynch needs picks after mortgaging so much he would be making a huge mistake if we are offering anything of value to not trade Jimmy G to us. He is just trying to get Bill to compete against his own offer.
He’s playing chess against the chess master here.

 

[Nehalem]

Jimmy Garoppolo may not be delighted to see his team draft his successor, but I’m sure he’ll stay professional and attempt to prove his worth while he’s still starting. This isn’t the first time something like this happened and won’t be the last.

Heck, look at the Chargers. They lost their franchise QB in 1997 after Stan Humphries was forced to retire due to concussions. They picked Ryan Leaf with the 2nd overall pick in 1998 and he flopped hard. In 2001 the Chargers cut their losses and drafted his replacement, taking Drew Brees early in the second round. By 2002 Brees took the job from the veteran bridge, Doug Flutie, but after two full seasons the Chargers went again and drafted another QB of the future. They took Eli Manning with the 1st overall pick of the 2004 draft, and then famously traded him to the Giants in a swap that brought them the 4th overall pick, Philip Rivers. The rest is history, much to our chagrin.

(Two fun facts: Eli didn’t want to play for the Chargers because of what Leaf had said about the organization. Leaf and Eli’s brother, Peyton, were good friends. The other fact is the Giants were going to draft Ben Roethlisberger with their 4th pick had they not agreed to a deal with the Chargers prior.)

As for Brees, even though his team just drafted his replacement, he remained their starter for another two seasons, including a Pro Bowl year in 2004 and a franchise tag in 2005 before bolting in free agency to the Saints in 2006. He went on and had a Hall of Fame career including a Super Bowl championship. Brees didn’t get mad, he got even.

Obviously the big difference here is that Brees was initially playing under his rookie contract while Garoppolo is playing under a far more lucrative contract extension he signed after the 2017 season. His value is tied to his performance, his salary, and his health. The question is how okay are they with continuing to pay franchise quarterback money to a guy who has played only half their games the last three years. It is entirely possible they keep him this year and next, and just as possible they cut or trade him. John Lynch insists he’s their guy for 2021. Kliff Kingsbury also swore up and down that Josh Rosen was their guy when everyone knew the Cardinals were taking Kyler Murray 1st overall. Can the Patriots afford to wait to see if Lynch blinks first? Who knows?

Really I thought the difference was the Chargers didn't give up 3 1st round picks to select Rivers?

That and the fact that Drew Brees was coming off a season where he threw more ints than TDs had a 2-9 record and got benched for Flutie.

 

[farn]

Because he's 30, has a big contract, and he had a deer in the headlights look at the biggest moments of his career.

Patriots fans severely overrate this guy.

There's a reason that SF is going another way at that position, and SF actually has a very talented team.

Let them blow their salary cap if they're unwilling to trade him for much less.

I dunno. Can’t talk for others, but I rated him “solid QB who knows the system and has had success”. He’s not Brady.

Question : how many current QBs are better than Jimmy ?

 

[RIpats88]

I dunno. Can’t talk for others, but I rated him “solid QB who knows the system and has had success”. He’s not Brady.

Question : how many current QBs are better than Jimmy ?

hes not brady, but not many QB's are. the question is, pending durability can you win with him? and the evidence is that you can win games with Jimmy G. the patriots know his skillset better than anyone. Hey may not be the perfect fit for what shanahan wants to do. but he might be for what the patriots/Josh do if they want to run the same "brady offense"

what trading for Jimmy G does is it takes the pressure away from the patriots in having to find "their guy" this year in the draft. its a strange draft as everyone wants a QB. so the patriots might be out of luck. You can re-evaluate the draft landscape next year when there are less needy teams. or if they are happy with Jimmy G can keep him on a longer deal and keep their eyes open in the following years.

take into account Jimmy G. was the 4th drafted QB in 2014. 6 QB's might go in the top 10 this year. And, its no guarantee any of these guys will end up being better than Jimmy G. its just going to happen. some will be busts, some will be OK, some will be above average and you may have a star or two.

if we dont get Jimmy G, Best case scenario: we draft a guy, Cam newton shows he isnt washed up has a solid season and we make the playoffs and transition to the rookie next year.

worst case scenario: all the guys we want are gone, and cant land a top qb prospect. Cam newton starts the season and is still the same guy he was last year and patriots struggle.

at least we know what Jimmy G is. An above average QB who has durability issues.

 

[BTTA]

Reading all this, there seem to be three possible pathways for Jimmy:

1. The 49ers cut Jimmy, and he is a FA.
2. The 49ers, another team, and Jimmy negotiate a trade, then redo his contract a few hours before the trade goes down, and he probably takes a healthy pay cut.
3. Jimmy competes for the starting role in SF, makes $25M, and is the star of next year's QB free agency class if he has a good season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I read this morning an rumour that the eagles tried to trade to Number 3 as well...

Eagles Tried To Trade For Dolphins 3rd Overall Pick To Draft Replacement For Jalen Hurts

The Eagles man… After trading Carson Wentz away in a move that left Philly having used the No. 2 overall pick on a QB that never won them a playoff game and that they will be playing tens of millions of dollars to play for another team, the Eagles appear to already be drafting his […]

dailysnark.com

If you read the article I believe the Eagles only wanted to trade to 3 if they could get Lawrence or Wilson. So trade to 3 so they could swap with the JETE or Jaguars. When they found out Wilson and Lawrence will definitely NOT be available after trading to 3, the Eagles traded back because they think there is a HUGE drop-off to QBs 3 - 5. Most likely the Lolphins agree because they traded out also.

 

[Lansdowne]

Really I thought the difference was the Chargers didn't give up 3 1st round picks to select Rivers?

That and the fact that Drew Brees was coming off a season where he threw more ints than TDs had a 2-9 record and got benched for Flutie.

Nobody is suggesting that these two situations are exactly the same. I wasn’t questioning the wisdom of the Chargers pursuing a new franchise QB, it was justified for the reasons you stated. I was making the parallel of a QB brought in to be the future of the franchise only to find himself looking over his shoulder as his team looks to draft his successor.

The Chargers obviously didn’t need to trade up as they played so poorly in 2003 that it landed them the top pick. They traded down for Rivers. The point is the 49ers, much like the Chargers, don’t trust the starting QB they have now, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to immediately move on from him either. That’s why I mentioned Brees sticking around another two years even after the Chargers already anointed his replacement.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

If you read the article I believe the Eagles only wanted to trade to 3 if they could get Lawrence or Wilson. So trade to 3 so they could swap with the JETE or Jaguars. When they found out Wilson and Lawrence will definitely NOT be available after trading to 3, the Eagles traded back because they think there is a HUGE drop-off to QBs 3 - 5. Most likely the Lolphins agree because they traded out also.

Yep, that indicates a bit for me the jets are going with Wilson here. But still i found it interesting that philly would like another QB so they are not sold an hurts after only 1 year. That's huge after having a mess o-Line and not good WR. The drop Off is indicated by their actions I agree but the 49ers thought different if they stay at 3 cause they payed a lot for fields/jones/lance.

Lol at "Lolphins" good one @One-If-By-Sea

 

[RIpats88]

I wonder how much Bill/Krafts age plays into what they do. Bill is near 70 and Kraft is near 80. This roster is built to win now(on paper). just missing a QB. Its clear after 2 decades of winning (more if you count the bledsoe years) being 7-9 didnt sit well with Bill/Kraft. I never thought Bill wanted a long rebuild which is why this offseason didn't shock me. Brady shot the first shot across the bow by winning a super bowl with Tampa. no matter what they say, that had to sting Bill/Kraft.

Do they think Jimmy G could be that guy? or do they want to roll the dice on trading up and battling 10 teams for 5-6 QBs? this is one of the most fascinating off-seasons in patriots history.

Imagine the storyline next year if Jimmy G. comes back. Bill trying to prove the NFL that he was right all along about Jimmy G being bradys heir apparent. the Tampa game might be the highest rated game of the season. Brady coming in to face the guy who let him walk out the door and the guy Bill essentially wanted to replace him all along

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Nobody is suggesting that these two situations are exactly the same. I wasn’t questioning the wisdom of the Chargers pursuing a new franchise QB, it was justified for the reasons you stated. I was making the parallel of a QB brought in to be the future of the franchise only to find himself looking over his shoulder as his team looks to draft his successor.

The Chargers obviously didn’t need to trade up as they played so poorly in 2003 that it landed them the top pick. They traded down for Rivers. The point is the 49ers, much like the Chargers, don’t trust the starting QB they have now, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to immediately move on from him either. That’s why I mentioned Brees sticking around another two years even after the Chargers already anointed his replacement.

The Chargers did not trade down, they picked Eli with the #1 pick and the Giants picked Rivers at #4, then the trade was made. So technically they traded players and not picks.

The trade was Manning for Rivers and the Giants 3rd rd pick in 2004 and first and fifth round picks in 2005.

 

[Lansdowne]

The Chargers did not trade down, they picked Eli with the #1 pick and the Giants picked Rivers at #4, then the trade was made. So technically they traded players and not picks.

The trade was Manning for Rivers and the Giants 3rd rd pick in 2004 and first and fifth round picks in 2005.

Yes, but the Chargers made the pick already knowing that Manning didn’t want to play for them. He was a placeholder until a trade was finalized. The Giants wanted Roethlisberger if they couldn’t agree to a trade for Manning. Once the deal was agreed to they were told to take Rivers for the Chargers. They announced the trade officially after the Rivers pick was made. Rivers wasn’t even called by anyone when he was drafted until the deal was finalized. For all intents and purposes it was a trade-down by the Chargers.

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[Triumph]

You cant help the club from the whirlpool tub.

BB is hitting the Gin and Juice if he brings Jimmy back here.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Do you not understand what leverage is?

Do you understand what reading comprehension, history, and common sense are? Umm nevermind.

 

[RIpats88]

You cant help the club from the whirlpool tub.

BB is hitting the Gin and Juice if he brings Jimmy back here.

Our other options are cam newton and Stidham.

 

[farn]

You cant help the club from the whirlpool tub.

BB is hitting the Gin and Juice if he brings Jimmy back here.

...or, with a retooled roster, he’s going 12-5 & facing KC in the AFCCG.

 

[Wozzy]

I wonder how much Bill/Krafts age plays into what they do. Bill is near 70 and Kraft is near 80. This roster is built to win now(on paper). just missing a QB. Its clear after 2 decades of winning (more if you count the bledsoe years) being 7-9 didnt sit well with Bill/Kraft. I never thought Bill wanted a long rebuild which is why this offseason didn't shock me. Brady shot the first shot across the bow by winning a super bowl with Tampa. no matter what they say, that had to sting Bill/Kraft.

Do they think Jimmy G could be that guy? or do they want to roll the dice on trading up and battling 10 teams for 5-6 QBs? this is one of the most fascinating off-seasons in patriots history.

Imagine the storyline next year if Jimmy G. comes back. Bill trying to prove the NFL that he was right all along about Jimmy G being bradys heir apparent. the Tampa game might be the highest rated game of the season. Brady coming in to face the guy who let him walk out the door and the guy Bill essentially wanted to replace him all along

It has nothing to do with their respective ages or feelings, they've always wanted to win, but by the end of Tom's run here they had pushed their resources to exhaustion to win more rings. BB told us what happened...

"This is kind of the year that we've taken to adjust our cap from the spending that we've had in accumulation of prior years." - BB, 2020

He was not making excuses, he was telling the truth. They kept kicking the salary cap can down the road, accumulating more and more debt until by 2019 they were up against a cap wall and paying a bunch of players with money out of future money... it wasn't sustainable. They had gotten old, good players moved on for more money elsewhere and there was no way to pay Tom what he was worth and win rings going forward. The three rings they did win in that last run made the juice worth the squeeze.

2020 was a reset year. Now they have an obscene amount of money, cap space, a good base of talent already, they're only paying 3% of the salary cap to the QB position and the salary cap is going up substantially in two years with the new TV deal. This has zero to do with what Tom did or how BB and Kraft feel, it's smart business. They planned this, it wasn't by accident or dumb luck.