Patfans Draft Forum mock thread -Feb 2009

[Richter]

Don't care much for CBS Rankings, but with how they are now, I'd go:

23 - Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois - Best all-around corner in the draft, good value at 23
47 - William Moore, S, Missouri - Best all-around safety in the draft, great value as an in the box safety whose coverage skills are underrated
58 - Ron Brace, DT, Boston College - Needs to maintain his weight, but he's a massive, run-stuffing tackle with some ability to penetrate. Reminds me of Ted Washington. Not a good value here, but the rankings dictate it.
89 - Jason Watkins, OT, Florida - Athletic former tight end that needs a lot of coaching as an OT, but has the tools to play tackle, and eventually on the blind side. At worst, an effective swing tackle that backs up both positions.
124 - Brandon Williams, DE/OLB, Texas Tech - A huge steal here, a guy that came out a year too early. He would have been first round material had he stayed in school and bulked up. Explosive pass rusher, has the tools to play standing up in a 3-4. One of the few players that made Texas Tech's defense respectable. Not big or strong enough yet, but clearly has room to get bigger and stronger on his frame. Extremely productive without much help around him.
158 - Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carolina - Massive run stuffer that moves better than people think. Looks like Levon Kirkland out on the field. Probably only a two down guy, but he'll plug up the middle on both of those downs.
192 - Brett Helms, C, LSU - Small but productive center. Very good in pass protection. Needs to play in a zone scheme. Not a road grader, but a decent guy to develop for depth purposes, that could eventually become a starter.
230 - Thomas Morstead, P, Southern Methodist- Maybe it's my hatred of Hanson, but I'd really like to pick up a potential weapon at punter. Morstead has good skills all around as a punter, most of his flaws are correctable through coaching. Bonus experience as a kicker. Hate spending a pick on a punter, but if it spells Hanson's ticket out of town, I'm there.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Three things:
1) Jordan is a UFA and has pretty much said he won't be back. The Pats also have BJGE under contract for next year.

2) Nic Harris is being projected as a LB, not a safety. LB is where he played in the Senior Bowl.'

3) Why do they need to replace Cassel? They already have O'Connell and Gutierrez?

Well you have Mitch King at ILB But I think that is a typo

1) With the NFL going to more of a committee at the RB postion I know BB likes to have 4 or 5 on the roster. I watched Devin Moore a lot this season and I guess he is my first binky....although not a true need in 2009 if he was available I would pull the trigger at #58 on this kid. I see your points but I love to have as many quality backs in the backfield at the same time. The Law Firm I am a fan of but I believe Morris and Faulk have just one more year left and in 2010 I would love (LM, BJGE and Moore)

2) I know Harris is projected and would fit a 4-3 Tampa two type defense but I think he could play BB tweener position quite well. He has very low body fat and if he runs 4.6 or better at the combine I would like him at the end of the third if he was still available (Good ST player as well). He is a natural leader is what I like the most and was very impressive in this interview after they lost their bowl game...had a nice pick in that game too. I think they will address safety for 2009 in another place possibly through trade or FA I just do not see this draft giving us a starting safety for 09.

3)I really think that signing a vet FA QB is the way to go....someone who has started 25 + Games in the NFL not a career backup or first round flop (you QB's know who you are). I was a big fan of this kid a few years ago and was horrified how is senior campaign went. Out of the 7th round QB prospects I just found him to be the best. I agree that I am fine with Brady, Cassel and Gutierrez.

Please take it easy on me metaphors I was doing my best....it was my 7th rounder not my first Totally agree with you analysis on him and find him to be a Marc Bulger type QB with that quick release. He just need time with a clipboard to learn how to read defense which is what he would do if that Pats do not sign a vet FA.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Try not to laugh too loud

#23 Sean Smith FS UTE, more value as FS so not a reach
#47 Paul Kruger OLB, Ute - could be the next Vrable
#56 William Moore SS Mo- the next Rodney - naah -but close
#89 Caldwell, C, Ala, can play G also
#120. J Watkins OT, FLs- keep our fingers crossed
#151 Fritz Joesph, ILB Fla At could be a steal
#186 Graham Gano, P Fla St- why the hell not
#212- Ian Johnson RB, Boise- Team has not won a SB without a Johnson.

Smith has been my flavor of the month and will be until I see reasons to dump him.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Three people drafted punter Gano. Box was first and DaBruinz second. Then I took him and I swear I never noticed the others taking him until after I posted.

so, do we need to draft a punter?

 

[Richter]

Three people drafted punter Gano. Box was first and DaBruinz second. Then I took him and I swear I never noticed the others taking him until after I posted.

so, do we need to draft a punter?

I think a lot of people here think a punter would be a worthwhile pick. I like Tom Morstead myself, but I saw some of Gano at the all star challenge and he looked good too.

What I'm surprised at is how many people have an interest in Paul Kruger. Super raw, major health concerns, on the older side and has to make a position change doesn't sound like much of a prospect to me. He had production, but against inferior competition, which doesn't do much to mitigate his shortcomings in my mind.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I think a lot of people here think a punter would be a worthwhile pick. I like Tom Morstead myself, but I saw some of Gano at the all star challenge and he looked good too.

What I'm surprised at is how many people have an interest in Paul Kruger. Super raw, major health concerns, on the older side and has to make a position change doesn't sound like much of a prospect to me. He had production, but against inferior competition, which doesn't do much to mitigate his shortcomings in my mind.

I saw him in 2 games and in both he was like a demon out there. Who did they play in the bowl game? I think it was Bama and he did very well againts them. That was good competition given Bama's OL.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well you have Mitch King at ILB But I think that is a typo

Mitch King was a MLB coming out of High School.

1) With the NFL going to more of a committee at the RB postion I know BB likes to have 4 or 5 on the roster. I watched Devin Moore a lot this season and I guess he is my first binky....although not a true need in 2009 if he was available I would pull the trigger at #58 on this kid. I see your points but I love to have as many quality backs in the backfield at the same time. The Law Firm I am a fan of but I believe Morris and Faulk have just one more year left and in 2010 I would love (LM, BJGE and Moore)

2) I know Harris is projected and would fit a 4-3 Tampa two type defense but I think he could play BB tweener position quite well. He has very low body fat and if he runs 4.6 or better at the combine I would like him at the end of the third if he was still available (Good ST player as well). He is a natural leader is what I like the most and was very impressive in this interview after they lost their bowl game...had a nice pick in that game too. I think they will address safety for 2009 in another place possibly through trade or FA I just do not see this draft giving us a starting safety for 09.

We both agree that this draft isn't likely to give the Pats a starting safety. I just don't see Harris being a fit for this defense.

3)I really think that signing a vet FA QB is the way to go....someone who has started 25 + Games in the NFL not a career backup or first round flop (you QB's know who you are). I was a big fan of this kid a few years ago and was horrified how is senior campaign went. Out of the 7th round QB prospects I just found him to be the best. I agree that I am fine with Brady, Cassel and Gutierrez.

Please take it easy on me metaphors I was doing my best....it was my 7th rounder not my first Totally agree with you analysis on him and find him to be a Marc Bulger type QB with that quick release. He just need time with a clipboard to learn how to read defense which is what he would do if that Pats do not sign a vet FA.

 

[DaBruinz]

What I'm surprised at is how many people have an interest in Paul Kruger. Super raw, major health concerns, on the older side and has to make a position change doesn't sound like much of a prospect to me. He had production, but against inferior competition, which doesn't do much to mitigate his shortcomings in my mind.

Umm.. Kruger has played standing up before and is very comfortable with it so, there isn't much of a "position change" as you'd think. What "major health concerns?"

So, he's 23. So what?

He didn't just have production. He had awesome production.

The problem, to me, is that the shortcomings are just in your mind.

 

[DaBruinz]

Try not to laugh too loud

#23 Sean Smith FS UTE, more value as FS so not a reach
#47 Paul Kruger OLB, Ute - could be the next Vrable
#56 William Moore SS Mo- the next Rodney - naah -but close
#89 Caldwell, C, Ala, can play G also
#120. J Watkins OT, FLs- keep our fingers crossed
#151 Fritz Joesph, ILB Fla At could be a steal
#186 Graham Gano, P Fla St- why the hell not
#212- Ian Johnson RB, Boise- Team has not won a SB without a Johnson.

Smith has been my flavor of the month and will be until I see reasons to dump him.

I'd be pretty happy with this draft.. I was gonna put Johnson on my draft list but figured that he'd probably end up being a UDFA instead,

I like Smith, but just felt that Britton was a better overall value for the Pats.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I had King as a undersized DT with a great motor (colts type player). I had no Idea that he was considered a MLB prospect. I guess at the combine we will see how he moves around but I really had no idea he was considered as a MLB....interesting.

 

[Richter]

Umm.. Kruger has played standing up before and is very comfortable with it so, there isn't much of a "position change" as you'd think. What "major health concerns?"

So, he's 23. So what?

He didn't just have production. He had awesome production.

The problem, to me, is that the shortcomings are just in your mind.

Right, so aside from playing in the Mountain West, which is hardly the SEC, he played as an end, even if he did stand up a lot because of his height. 23 is a little older than you'd like for a top end prospect that has very little experience, no? His production I'd call good, not awesome - there are guys with better numbers out there if that's what you want. He's down a kidney and had foot and knee issues. He has one pass rush move - he's really, really raw, which makes his age a bigger factor, because by the time he'd get up to speed, assuming he can, he'd be even older. I'm not totally opposed to the Pats drafting him, he has a lot of upside, but given all the question marks, which are real, not imagined, doesn't high to mid second round seem a little high for him?

 

[Richter]

I saw him in 2 games and in both he was like a demon out there. Who did they play in the bowl game? I think it was Bama and he did very well againts them. That was good competition given Bama's OL.

His motor isn't the question. Alabama was down their top offensive lineman in that game too, Andre Smith, for that game, which is a serious hit when you're considering who he faced there.

 

[DaBruinz]

Right, so aside from playing in the Mountain West, which is hardly the SEC, he played as an end, even if he did stand up a lot because of his height. 23 is a little older than you'd like for a top end prospect that has very little experience, no? His production I'd call good, not awesome - there are guys with better numbers out there if that's what you want. He's down a kidney and had foot and knee issues. He has one pass rush move - he's really, really raw, which makes his age a bigger factor, because by the time he'd get up to speed, assuming he can, he'd be even older. I'm not totally opposed to the Pats drafting him, he has a lot of upside, but given all the question marks, which are real, not imagined, doesn't high to mid second round seem a little high for him?

Please provide a link to your info about him because nothing I've read says that he's down a kidney nor that he's had foot and knee issues.

 

[Richter]

Please provide a link to your info about him because nothing I've read says that he's down a kidney nor that he's had foot and knee issues.

Give me a little time, since I've got info spread from all over, but let's start with this:

Deseret News | Details emerge in assault on U. players

Here's the article with the mention of the missing kidney and spleen:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=jn-kruger102308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[mayoclinic]

Kruger is missing a kidney and his spleen, I believe from a motor vehicle accident as a child. He has played without them his entire career. I don't have the reference off the top of my head, but I posted it in a previous thread where he was discussed.

 

[DaBruinz]

Give me a little time, since I've got info spread from all over, but let's start with this:

Deseret News | Details emerge in assault on U. players

Here's the article with the mention of the missing kidney and spleen:

Utah's Kruger survives, thrives - College Football - Rivals.com

So, according to you, Kruger has "major health issues" even though he's been playing football for years without one kidney or a spleen?

 

[Richter]

So, according to you, Kruger has "major health issues" even though he's been playing football for years without one kidney or a spleen?

Uh, those issues don't go away just because you manage them successfully. Because of his surgeries he also had issues with tightness and flexibility in his abdomen. He has to wear protective equipment for his one good kidney. An injury there would effectively end his career. I consider losing vital organs to be a major health issue. It's not like I'm saying they shouldn't take him just because of that, but it does downgrade him in my eyes. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For the record: After watching the Sugar Bowl recording, I gave Kruger a 3rd round grade. His competition in that game was a 2nd string LT who left early in the first Qtr with an injury and a 3rd string LT who played the rest of the way. Kruger looked okay playing as a 3-4 OLB, his pass rush is nothing to right home about, his ability to set the edge was consistent with most of his peers - he needs to get stronger and use better technique. Last season he had 7.5 sacks against Mountain West opponents, he has 10.5 for his career. Where he stands out is passes defended with 12 in his career. He's either very good at getting his hands up or he's good in coverage. If NE wants to take him in the 3rd, I have no complaint; however, I do believe he is riding a Sugar Bowl high amongst draftniks - and I thought his junior partner on the other side was the better prospect.

 

[Richter]

For the record: After watching the Sugar Bowl recording, I gave Kruger a 3rd round grade. His competition in that game was a 2nd string LT who left early in the first Qtr with an injury and a 3rd string LT who played the rest of the way. Kruger looked okay playing as a 3-4 OLB, his pass rush is nothing to right home about, his ability to set the edge was consistent with most of his peers - he needs to get stronger and use better technique. Last season he had 7.5 sacks against Mountain West opponents, he has 10.5 for his career. Where he stands out is passes defended with 12 in his career. He's either very good at getting his hands up or he's good in coverage. If NE wants to take him in the 3rd, I have no complaint; however, I do believe he is riding a Sugar Bowl high amongst draftniks - and I thought his junior partner on the other side was the better prospect.

That sounds about right to me. He has strength issues, which can be corrected but will take time. He's just not a dominant pass rusher, especially with his lack of refined moves - he gets sacks on effort. Again, not a bad thing, but not a high to mid second rounder.

 

[PATSNUTme]

That sounds about right to me. He has strength issues, which can be corrected but will take time. He's just not a dominant pass rusher, especially with his lack of refined moves - he gets sacks on effort. Again, not a bad thing, but not a high to mid second rounder.

Does it really matter if he get's his sacks due to effort? You can teach moves and refine those though work in practice. And I understand though reading that he is a hard worker and a quick study. The effort part is what cannot be taught.

Look, I've only seen the guy 2 X and was impressed with him both times. I can say the same thing about M. Johnson of GT. but I think that Johnson is a bigger reach at OLB than Kruger.