PATRIOTS NEWS Parcells going in Patriots HoF

[sb1]

If there is this much debate about whether or not a person deserves to be in a team's hall of fame - then he shouldn't get in.

The vast majority of fans should be in agreement for every member of a team's HoF/Ring of Honor.

Not having that consensus devalues the honor tremendously.

This.

The Pats HOF really is for the fans.

 

[Triumph]

Parcells left nearly 30 years ago.

I wasn't happy about how he left, but surely 30 years is enough time to get over it, no?

He quit SuperBowl week and was using the Pats hotel room phones in New Orleans to line up his next job with the Jets.

There will always be a question whether or not he purposely lost the SB so Kraft would not benefit. Like kicking to Desmond Howard.

Tuna tried going to the Jets as a consultant so the Pats would recieve nothing in compensation. Then he stole Curtis Martin with a contract outlawed in the NFL.

Kraft is desperate for attention.

 

[1960Pats]

He quit SuperBowl week and was using the Pats hotel room phones in New Orleans to line up his next job with the Jets.

There will always be a question whether or not he purposely lost the SB so Kraft would not benefit. Like kicking to Desmond Howard.

Tuna tried going to the Jets as a consultant so the Pats would recieve nothing in compensation. Then he stole Curtis Martin with a contract outlawed in the NFL.

Kraft is desperate for attention.

I don't really care much for HOFs but that choice did get my attention.

 

[sb1]

The Pats were doing a good job erasing White with a double team. For some reason that changed to a 1:1 matchup with Max Lane.

 

[Tunescribe]

This is the argument for Tuna Sh!t that I don't get. The Pats had top teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's and had been in the SB before he arrived. And one of those teams lost in the SB just like he did. He was nothing special and his record shows it.

But this franchise was bottom-barrel with no hope in sight before he arrived, going 14-50 over four seasons. Everything was a mess -- roster, coaching staff, front office, facilities, stadium. Tuna brought professional competence that turned things around quickly. He hired a good staff, drafted well and his reputation helped sign free agents. He also was a stabilizing influence in the ownership transition from Orthwein to Kraft. And without him, BB likely wouldn't have been on Kraft's radar. It's a shame his tenure was tainted by how things ended.

 

[Pape]

This is the argument for Tuna Sh!t that I don't get. The Pats had top teams in the 60's, 70's and 80's and had been in the SB before he arrived. And one of those teams lost in the SB just like he did. He was nothing special and his record shows it.

The only era in the Patriots history that matters in this discussion are the 1980'... the 60's & 70's? irrelevant simply because they are too far removed from 1993... the 1980's? They had a pretty good run, until the last years of Berrys tenure... scrappy teams, but not quite good enough to get over the hump... If you tell me you thought that '85 Pats would be in the super bowl, i'd have a hard time believing that... but ultimately, despite their successes, the team collapsed at the end of the decade...

the end of Berrys run, leading into Rod Rust then pivoting to **** McPherson saw a significant decline in this team... The stars of the 70's and 80's were hitting their mid thirties or were out right retiring... Grogan was a shell of himself, Tippett was on his way out, Nelson was giving his final thumbs up, Hannah was no longer anchoring the line, Russ Francis was a year or two away from being replaced by Zeke Mowat... Tie all of this into the unsettled ownership drama... The Sullivan family going broke on the hill that was Randy & Tito Jackson... Victor Kiam's rocky finances which ultimately lead to the league basically forcing him to sell the team, to James Orthwein who, if you believe his son (and I do) really wanted to move and wasn't long for New England (Hello Stallions!)...

Bill Parcells was hired iirc January of 1993... i didn't look it up, so it could have been a bit earlier or a bit later... Almost overnight the front office side of the team was solidified and projected stability which had been lacking on this team since 1988 (or was it 1989? correct me anyone if you know) when things with Berry started going south... If you don't agree with that assessment, then you aren't being honest with yourself... between 1993 and 1995 the Patriots drafted Drew Bledsoe, Vincent Brisby, Max Lane, Todd Rucci, Chris Slade, Willie Mac, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Marty Moore, Ted Johnson and Curtis Martin... The core of the guys that Parcells assembled were the same guys who carried the Patriots to their first Super Bowl victory...

The team successes in the 1960', the 1970's and even the early part of the 1980's do not matter, and aren't germane to the conversation because the franchise had become embroiled in the chaos that surrounded ownership & the front office... Parcells came in and took over the football operations... It was Parcells who set the ship right... ultimately he laid the foundation for this team to succeed... Bill Parcells had a tremendously positive impact on this team from the word Go... It did end oh so poorly fueled by a clash of egos that pitted a resurgent Tuna against a younger, feistier Robert Kraft,

have I explained it well enough? Is it easier to understand where I am coming from? lemme know.

 

[RobertWeathers]

After an evening/morning of reflection, I think the main motivation for this move was for Kraft to curry favor with the NFL elite in his desperate attempt to get into the NFL HoF. There are two angles to this.

1. Parcells is well thought of by the power players in the league. Giants, Jets, Jerry, Sportswriters. Accepting him into the NEP HoF is an olive branch to one of the members of the "club".

2. Kraft is showing by example a willingness to let bygones by bygones. He is hoping the HoF voters see this and reconsider their reasoning why he has not been elected to the HoF.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Let’s also not forget Parcells played dirty when Kraft wanted BB to be the HC of the Pats. The 1st round pick was very excessive and Bob did his usual thing and caved.

Another reason why I think this argument will never die is because the Pats were on the verge of being one of the best teams in the NFL before they imploded.

 

[signbabybrady]

The only era in the Patriots history that matters in this discussion are the 1980'... the 60's & 70's? irrelevant simply because they are too far removed from 1993... the 1980's? They had a pretty good run, until the last years of Berrys tenure... scrappy teams, but not quite good enough to get over the hump... If you tell me you thought that '85 Pats would be in the super bowl, i'd have a hard time believing that... but ultimately, despite their successes, the team collapsed at the end of the decade...

the end of Berrys run, leading into Rod Rust then pivoting to **** McPherson saw a significant decline in this team... The stars of the 70's and 80's were hitting their mid thirties or were out right retiring... Grogan was a shell of himself, Tippett was on his way out, Nelson was giving his final thumbs up, Hannah was no longer anchoring the line, Russ Francis was a year or two away from being replaced by Zeke Mowat... Tie all of this into the unsettled ownership drama... The Sullivan family going broke on the hill that was Randy & Tito Jackson... Victor Kiam's rocky finances which ultimately lead to the league basically forcing him to sell the team, to James Orthwein who, if you believe his son (and I do) really wanted to move and wasn't long for New England (Hello Stallions!)...

Bill Parcells was hired iirc January of 1993... i didn't look it up, so it could have been a bit earlier or a bit later... Almost overnight the front office side of the team was solidified and projected stability which had been lacking on this team since 1988 (or was it 1989? correct me anyone if you know) when things with Berry started going south... If you don't agree with that assessment, then you aren't being honest with yourself... between 1993 and 1995 the Patriots drafted Drew Bledsoe, Vincent Brisby, Max Lane, Todd Rucci, Chris Slade, Willie Mac, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Marty Moore, Ted Johnson and Curtis Martin... The core of the guys that Parcells assembled were the same guys who carried the Patriots to their first Super Bowl victory...

The team successes in the 1960', the 1970's and even the early part of the 1980's do not matter, and aren't germane to the conversation because the franchise had become embroiled in the chaos that surrounded ownership & the front office... Parcells came in and took over the football operations... It was Parcells who set the ship right... ultimately he laid the foundation for this team to succeed... Bill Parcells had a tremendously positive impact on this team from the word Go... It did end oh so poorly fueled by a clash of egos that pitted a resurgent Tuna against a younger, feistier Robert Kraft,

have I explained it well enough? Is it easier to understand where I am coming from? lemme know.

New debate time. We've all had to deal with the tiring BB v Brady.

Who was more responsible for the 90s Drew v BP?

LOL

 

[Clonamery]

The only era in the Patriots history that matters in this discussion are the 1980'... the 60's & 70's? irrelevant simply because they are too far removed from 1993... the 1980's? They had a pretty good run, until the last years of Berrys tenure... scrappy teams, but not quite good enough to get over the hump... If you tell me you thought that '85 Pats would be in the super bowl, i'd have a hard time believing that... but ultimately, despite their successes, the team collapsed at the end of the decade...

the end of Berrys run, leading into Rod Rust then pivoting to **** McPherson saw a significant decline in this team... The stars of the 70's and 80's were hitting their mid thirties or were out right retiring... Grogan was a shell of himself, Tippett was on his way out, Nelson was giving his final thumbs up, Hannah was no longer anchoring the line, Russ Francis was a year or two away from being replaced by Zeke Mowat... Tie all of this into the unsettled ownership drama... The Sullivan family going broke on the hill that was Randy & Tito Jackson... Victor Kiam's rocky finances which ultimately lead to the league basically forcing him to sell the team, to James Orthwein who, if you believe his son (and I do) really wanted to move and wasn't long for New England (Hello Stallions!)...

Bill Parcells was hired iirc January of 1993... i didn't look it up, so it could have been a bit earlier or a bit later... Almost overnight the front office side of the team was solidified and projected stability which had been lacking on this team since 1988 (or was it 1989? correct me anyone if you know) when things with Berry started going south... If you don't agree with that assessment, then you aren't being honest with yourself... between 1993 and 1995 the Patriots drafted Drew Bledsoe, Vincent Brisby, Max Lane, Todd Rucci, Chris Slade, Willie Mac, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Marty Moore, Ted Johnson and Curtis Martin... The core of the guys that Parcells assembled were the same guys who carried the Patriots to their first Super Bowl victory...

The team successes in the 1960', the 1970's and even the early part of the 1980's do not matter, and aren't germane to the conversation because the franchise had become embroiled in the chaos that surrounded ownership & the front office... Parcells came in and took over the football operations... It was Parcells who set the ship right... ultimately he laid the foundation for this team to succeed... Bill Parcells had a tremendously positive impact on this team from the word Go... It did end oh so poorly fueled by a clash of egos that pitted a resurgent Tuna against a younger, feistier Robert Kraft,

have I explained it well enough? Is it easier to understand where I am coming from? lemme know.

Ok, sure. I'll think you'll find outside his time with the Giants that he created a change in culture but he couldn't sustain it. He never put in the work it takes, he would rather blame others and eventually fled the scene. Pats, Jets, Miami, Dallas. 3-4 years and he was out. Golf and Horses were easier.

 

[Steve102]

Tuna was a veritable savior for this franchise when needed most, then committed a selfish act of betrayal. His induction is a personal mending of fences between two elderly men that has nothing to do with the fans but will be trotted out as a "fan event." It's up to us to celebrate the good times he brought us -- most of which I attended in Foxboro -- or turn our backs because of how it ended.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Ok, sure. I'll think you'll find outside his time with the Giants that he created a change in culture but he couldn't sustain it. He never put in the work it takes, he would rather blame others and eventually fled the scene. Pats, Jets, Miami, Dallas. 3-4 years and he was out. Golf and Horses were easier.

because he was kind of a lousy coach........he got 1 side of the lombardi style - he liked to yell & bully & threaten, but didn't have the other side to counter it; lombardi was a genius in this regard, jerry kramer always said when you thought you were going to get lit up, he'd give you a pat on the ass and encourage you, when you thought you'd get accolades, he'd kick your ass - parcells didn't get the psychology, he'd just kick your ass and keep kicking......after the NYG, where he rode the coattails of just a ridiculously talented stable of assistants, he'd come in, clean house, upgrade the talent - he was a sold evaluator of talent for that era of football - but his act would wear thin with the players, and he'd lose the locker room eventually and move on

think BB didn't evolve quick enough for the modern football player? parcels in this era would have crashed harder than McD as a head coach lol

 

[Steve102]

The only era in the Patriots history that matters in this discussion are the 1980'... the 60's & 70's? irrelevant simply because they are too far removed from 1993... the 1980's? They had a pretty good run, until the last years of Berrys tenure... scrappy teams, but not quite good enough to get over the hump... If you tell me you thought that '85 Pats would be in the super bowl, i'd have a hard time believing that... but ultimately, despite their successes, the team collapsed at the end of the decade...

the end of Berrys run, leading into Rod Rust then pivoting to **** McPherson saw a significant decline in this team... The stars of the 70's and 80's were hitting their mid thirties or were out right retiring... Grogan was a shell of himself, Tippett was on his way out, Nelson was giving his final thumbs up, Hannah was no longer anchoring the line, Russ Francis was a year or two away from being replaced by Zeke Mowat... Tie all of this into the unsettled ownership drama... The Sullivan family going broke on the hill that was Randy & Tito Jackson... Victor Kiam's rocky finances which ultimately lead to the league basically forcing him to sell the team, to James Orthwein who, if you believe his son (and I do) really wanted to move and wasn't long for New England (Hello Stallions!)...

Bill Parcells was hired iirc January of 1993... i didn't look it up, so it could have been a bit earlier or a bit later... Almost overnight the front office side of the team was solidified and projected stability which had been lacking on this team since 1988 (or was it 1989? correct me anyone if you know) when things with Berry started going south... If you don't agree with that assessment, then you aren't being honest with yourself... between 1993 and 1995 the Patriots drafted Drew Bledsoe, Vincent Brisby, Max Lane, Todd Rucci, Chris Slade, Willie Mac, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Marty Moore, Ted Johnson and Curtis Martin... The core of the guys that Parcells assembled were the same guys who carried the Patriots to their first Super Bowl victory...

The team successes in the 1960', the 1970's and even the early part of the 1980's do not matter, and aren't germane to the conversation because the franchise had become embroiled in the chaos that surrounded ownership & the front office... Parcells came in and took over the football operations... It was Parcells who set the ship right... ultimately he laid the foundation for this team to succeed... Bill Parcells had a tremendously positive impact on this team from the word Go... It did end oh so poorly fueled by a clash of egos that pitted a resurgent Tuna against a younger, feistier Robert Kraft,

have I explained it well enough? Is it easier to understand where I am coming from? lemme know.

Parcells is the bridge between the Kiam/Orthwien Era to the current Kraft era. I think you have it dialed here very succinctly.

 

[signbabybrady]

Ok, sure. I'll think you'll find outside his time with the Giants that he created a change in culture but he couldn't sustain it. He never put in the work it takes, he would rather blame others and eventually fled the scene. Pats, Jets, Miami, Dallas. 3-4 years and he was out. Golf and Horses were easier.

Golf and the Ponies are tough at least in my experience.

 

[Clonamery]

Golf and the Ponies are tough at least in my experience.

He enjoys them

 

[Triumph]

I don't really care much for HOFs but that choice did get my attention.

Take note how the Mayo thing has gone away and its been crickets these last few months.

Time to change the narrative so, old Thunder is reaching in his bag of tricks and lining up notable NFL people in his corner for his NFL HOF bid. We on the 3rd try?

Watch Tuna praise Kraft at his Pats enshrinement ceremony. His comments will likely make SportsCenter and Kornheiser during the dog days of summer when its slower than the 2nd coming of Jesus.

 

[Pape]

Ok, sure. I'll think you'll find outside his time with the Giants that he created a change in culture but he couldn't sustain it. He never put in the work it takes, he would rather blame others and eventually fled the scene. Pats, Jets, Miami, Dallas. 3-4 years and he was out. Golf and Horses were easier.

Yeah, sadly, that was the way he operated.

 

[signbabybrady]

He enjoys them

I like the ponies. Golf not so much. I bumped into BP in Saratoga once and he told us what horse was his and it won.

 

[PP2]

After an evening/morning of reflection, I think the main motivation for this move was for Kraft to curry favor with the NFL elite in his desperate attempt to get into the NFL HoF. There are two angles to this.

1. Parcells is well thought of by the power players in the league. Giants, Jets, Jerry, Sportswriters. Accepting him into the NEP HoF is an olive branch to one of the members of the "club".

2. Kraft is showing by example a willingness to let bygones by bygones. He is hoping the HoF voters see this and reconsider their reasoning why he has not been elected to the HoF.

In other words, once again making this all about himself.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Take note how the Mayo thing has gone away and its been crickets these last few months.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's gone exactly as I predicted last offseason that Mayo would get fired after year 1 and he'd be so bad it would ruin his career. Nobody cares about Jerod Mayo. I would be shocked if he ever resurfaced as some sort of assistant or LB's coach. In fact, what he did week 18 should black ball him from the league.

If anything, Kraft quickly helped his reputation by hiring Vrabel.