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I still think JJ is *that* good athletically. Ball security is paramount, but hell, even if the guy can't pass block, get him in the game for a handful of designed screens, pitches, jet-sweeps, etc. He's someone like Patterson, Edelman, Dion - a person who is dynamic in space. Someone with his athletic talent and skillset should be getting touches on this offense, IMO.

The thing was, even when Michel was here, they didn't really use him as a 3rd-down RB doing pass blocking, screens, etc. They showed a little bit of that in the preseason but it was never something he did much of here. Now that he's in LA, they have him doing a lot of that, and he seems comfortable doing it. I tend to think if Michel was here, they'd still be using him in a limited role and we wouldn't be thinking all that highly of him beyond being a decent runner on 1st/2nd down.

The Michel trade hasn't aged well in hindsight, but honestly I think we might be focusing on the wrong thing. To me this is less about not having Michel than it is about not empowering the RBs who are here. Again, ball security is paramount, so yeah, at some point you can't play someone who is fumbling, but I'd like to see them be slightly less trigger happy with yanking RBs for mental mistakes (fumbles, missed blocks). Taylor and Stevenson both have similar athletic talent to Michel (in different ways), just let them play a bit and get experience. I was glad to see Stevenson hammer them late, he looked solid yesterday.

I think Sony for sure would have at least been playing the rham role in week one. Which would have prevented a fumble early and kept Harris a lot fresher for the end of that game.

Not sure if he’d bee ahead of bolden for 3rd down rob but I’d hope so. Sony can pass protect and made many strides as a catcher. Definitely think the trade hurts thus far, but the next few weeks plus any week Harris is out will be the most telling in regards to this trade. Rham and/or jj need to step up
 
As others have probably said, I like Damian Harris, but man, he has to stop it with these fumbles on the goal line. That was 7 points last night and probably a winning FG against Miami i.e. could have cost us 2 wins.
 
I can see a reason to trade Michel but then give snaps to Stevenson and Taylor. They're the reason a trade was justified. You don't trade Michel to then play Bolden a ton if White goes down.


.
 
How hard is it to not fumble? And I ask that legitimately. Because is it something you can expect to be fixed within a few games? Or is it regarded as a chronic issue normally?
 
How hard is it to not fumble? And I ask that legitimately. Because is it something you can expect to be fixed within a few games? Or is it regarded as a chronic issue normally?

Fumbling is an issue that yes can be fixed... Not every time, but there's still hope for Omen, Rham & JJ...
 
How hard is it to not fumble? And I ask that legitimately. Because is it something you can expect to be fixed within a few games? Or is it regarded as a chronic issue normally?

Theoretically, it's a matter of fundamentals. You've probably heard of the "high and tight" philosophy that's preached around here. It's a matter of mastering the five point of contacts: biceps, forearm, palm, fingers, and chest.

However, sticking to fundamentals at all time, no matter what- that's a different, more mental game.
 
However, sticking to fundamentals at all time, no matter what- that's a different, more mental game.
That's absolutely correct because the instinctual act is to fight, claw, and scratch for more yards - to "keep going". It is force of will to instead put all of your attention in ball security and the "five points of contact" (not to mention both hands if you have the sixth sense to know you're about to get hit) already mentioned. It's similar to throwing the ball away for a QB.
 
It was good to see Dre out of fumble jail. However, I wasn't too stoked about his performance against Hou. Obviously, Harris was the pick of the current backfield, to date. I would love to see Dre shine this season, and it looks like he'll have his chance, but it doesn't look at present like he's going to knock it out of the park. Sadly, his performance against scrubs has not been duplicated to date in-game. We'll see.

I was in the "embarrassment of riches" camp when we traded Michel. They will likely be fine once all is said and done, but we'll see.

@slash83 believes that trading Michel was a "disastrous" move. I do not understand this assertion.

Michel fumbled in week 4, by the way, so if it's any consolation, I guess you would not have seen him for a while anyway. But here are his stats this year:


I can understand that you'd worry about replacing his production. 163 yards and a TD. Wait, that wasn't a game, that's his SEASON so far. He managed 4.6 yards per carry in week 2 against Indy ah say INDY, and otherwise hasn't cracked 3.7 (total 3.6 ypc over 5 games).

A reminder for those who've forgotten: Michel was slated to get a $4.5m fifth-year option next year. We said nah and traded him. We typically say nah to big contracts to running backs. You play a role, you get roleplayer money. And God help you if you lead the league in TDs, then we kick you off the team (looking at you, LaGarrette).

Harris' cap hit this year is $1.07 million, swelling to $1.19m next year. All told that single year at $4.5m against the cap for Michel was more than Harris' 4-year deal. Stephenson's costing us 847K this year, Taylor's costing us 780,000, and Bolden costs $1.98m.

All told, Sony Michel would have cost more next year than the remainder of the backfield... for 3.6 yards per carry (unless you think that the Pats' O-line would have pumped that up.) (He was also due 1.79M for 2021.)

If you're wondering, Damien Harris has 230 yards, a 3.7 average, and 2 TD. Of course, he just got injured too.

Now, in the past, Sony Michel was good. Was he $4.5m good? I don't think so, not how we value the rb position. Harris had emerged in 2020, however, notching 3 100-yard games and 691 yards in 10 games. Good enough to play the role.

Yes, we fumble. Crying about missing Sony, however, is irrelevant. He wasn't getting that 5th year and wasn't worth it, in Patriots backfield dollars. The two dozen players we added in the free agency signing blitz, put together, cost much more than Michel. A few of them individually cost much more than Michel.

Key metric: none of the running backs did. In fact, ALL of the running backs we have, put together, would cost less than him next year.

And yes, in general, I believe it was a priority to spend where warranted this year.

Was it warranted on Sony Michel?


PS, to be fair, it would only be another $1.79m THIS year to keep Michel.
 
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Theoretically, it's a matter of fundamentals. You've probably heard of the "high and tight" philosophy that's preached around here. It's a matter of mastering the five point of contacts: biceps, forearm, palm, fingers, and chest.

However, sticking to fundamentals at all time, no matter what- that's a different, more mental game.
According to this, BJGE never fumbled in NE... I thought he had occasionally but I guess I was wrong.

In Cincinnati he did, just a couple times a season... But I thought I remembered this, and it turns out, here it is. Check out weeks 3&4 in 2012.


This guy had never fumbled in the NFL. N-E-V-E-R. So yeah, there's your mental part of the game. Then he didn't fumble again the rest of that year.
 
It was good to see Dre out of fumble jail. However, I wasn't too stoked about his performance against Hou. Obviously, Harris was the pick of the current backfield, to date. I would love to see Dre shine this season, and it looks like he'll have his chance, but it doesn't look at present like he's going to knock it out of the park. Sadly, his performance against scrubs has not been duplicated to date in-game. We'll see.

I was in the "embarrassment of riches" camp when we traded Michel. They will likely be fine once all is said and done, but we'll see.

@slash83 believes that trading Michel was a "disastrous" move. I do not understand this assertion.

Michel fumbled in week 4, by the way, so if it's any consolation, I guess you would not have seen him for a while anyway. But here are his stats this year:


I can understand that you'd worry about replacing his production. 163 yards and a TD. Wait, that wasn't a game, that's his SEASON so far. He managed 4.6 yards per carry in week 2 against Indy ah say INDY, and otherwise hasn't cracked 3.7 (total 3.6 ypc over 5 games).

A reminder for those who've forgotten: Michel was slated to get a $4.5m fifth-year option next year. We said nah and traded him. We typically say nah to big contracts to running backs. You play a role, you get roleplayer money. And God help you if you lead the league in TDs, then we kick you off the team (looking at you, LaGarrette).

Harris' cap hit this year is $1.07 million, swelling to $1.19m next year. All told that single year at $4.5m against the cap for Michel was more than Harris' 4-year deal. Stephenson's costing us 847K this year, Taylor's costing us 780,000, and Bolden costs $1.98m.

All told, Sony Michel would have cost more next year than the remainder of the backfield... for 3.6 yards per carry (unless you think that the Pats' O-line would have pumped that up.) (He was also due 1.79M for 2021.)

If you're wondering, Damien Harris has 230 yards, a 3.7 average, and 2 TD. Of course, he just got injured too.

Now, in the past, Sony Michel was good. Was he $4.5m good? I don't think so, not how we value the rb position. Harris had emerged in 2020, however, notching 3 100-yard games and 691 yards in 10 games. Good enough to play the role.

Yes, we fumble. Crying about missing Sony, however, is irrelevant. He wasn't getting that 5th year and wasn't worth it, in Patriots backfield dollars. The two dozen players we added in the free agency signing blitz, put together, cost much more than Michel. A few of them individually cost much more than Michel.

Key metric: none of the running backs did. In fact, ALL of the running backs we have, put together, would cost less than him next year.

And yes, in general, I believe it was a priority to spend where warranted this year.

Was it warranted on Sony Michel?


PS, to be fair, it would only be another $1.79m THIS year to keep Michel.
Nobody is crying about missing Sony, he wasn’t spectacular or as good as a runner Harris is but he is more reliable. Harris can’t be trusted, not only has he been a fumbler this season, he’s fumbling at literally the worst times, which in one game vs Miami likely cost the game.

The current backfield is a mess, there’s no denying that.
 
It was good to see Dre out of fumble jail. However, I wasn't too stoked about his performance against Hou. Obviously, Harris was the pick of the current backfield, to date. I would love to see Dre shine this season, and it looks like he'll have his chance, but it doesn't look at present like he's going to knock it out of the park. Sadly, his performance against scrubs has not been duplicated to date in-game. We'll see.

I was in the "embarrassment of riches" camp when we traded Michel. They will likely be fine once all is said and done, but we'll see.

@slash83 believes that trading Michel was a "disastrous" move. I do not understand this assertion.

Michel fumbled in week 4, by the way, so if it's any consolation, I guess you would not have seen him for a while anyway. But here are his stats this year:


I can understand that you'd worry about replacing his production. 163 yards and a TD. Wait, that wasn't a game, that's his SEASON so far. He managed 4.6 yards per carry in week 2 against Indy ah say INDY, and otherwise hasn't cracked 3.7 (total 3.6 ypc over 5 games).

A reminder for those who've forgotten: Michel was slated to get a $4.5m fifth-year option next year. We said nah and traded him. We typically say nah to big contracts to running backs. You play a role, you get roleplayer money. And God help you if you lead the league in TDs, then we kick you off the team (looking at you, LaGarrette).

Harris' cap hit this year is $1.07 million, swelling to $1.19m next year. All told that single year at $4.5m against the cap for Michel was more than Harris' 4-year deal. Stephenson's costing us 847K this year, Taylor's costing us 780,000, and Bolden costs $1.98m.

All told, Sony Michel would have cost more next year than the remainder of the backfield... for 3.6 yards per carry (unless you think that the Pats' O-line would have pumped that up.) (He was also due 1.79M for 2021.)

If you're wondering, Damien Harris has 230 yards, a 3.7 average, and 2 TD. Of course, he just got injured too.

Now, in the past, Sony Michel was good. Was he $4.5m good? I don't think so, not how we value the rb position. Harris had emerged in 2020, however, notching 3 100-yard games and 691 yards in 10 games. Good enough to play the role.

Yes, we fumble. Crying about missing Sony, however, is irrelevant. He wasn't getting that 5th year and wasn't worth it, in Patriots backfield dollars. The two dozen players we added in the free agency signing blitz, put together, cost much more than Michel. A few of them individually cost much more than Michel.

Key metric: none of the running backs did. In fact, ALL of the running backs we have, put together, would cost less than him next year.

And yes, in general, I believe it was a priority to spend where warranted this year.

Was it warranted on Sony Michel?


PS, to be fair, it would only be another $1.79m THIS year to keep Michel.
I would have kept in as a plan B because I don’t see a ton of value that we got back.
But we have a lot of RBs. It’s him or Stevenson/Taylor behind Harris. Not an earth shattering difference.
He never played in the passing game, so Bolden would be Whites replacement whether Michel wee here or not.
 
Nobody is crying about missing Sony, he wasn’t spectacular or as good as a runner Harris is but he is more reliable. Harris can’t be trusted, not only has he been a fumbler this season, he’s fumbling at literally the worst times, which in one game vs Miami likely cost the game.

The current backfield is a mess, there’s no denying that.
you mean 2 guys are injured?
 
Harris- "Stud". Well, is he? When I think of stud I think of Nick Chubb, Derick Henry, Najee Harris, Christian Mccaffrey. Is he even close to these guys? I think Harris is good, maybe very good. He can run, break tackles and score touchdowns. But he can't catch and he can't pass block. So we won't see him on the field every down.

Not true


Harris has a 87% catch rate. Just slightly lower than the best rbs of the league.
 


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