Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[patfanken]

Ellis starting is a bigger problem than who is the backup.
Ellis has athleticism and that helps him show up sometimes, but he lacks any good LB instincts. He is often out of position in the run game and seems lost in coverage often.
Gibbens was close to beating him out and played almost as many snaps (506 to 491) and we had zero interest in keeping him.
It’s not just LB depth that’s a concern, it’s a starter too, and there doesn’t seem to be anyone to threaten his job this year.

Maybe the reason they kept Ellis while having no apparent interest in Gibby was that they see in Ellis a more athletic ILB who has room to develop into something better moving on. Clearly Ellis was playing better at the end of the year than he was at the beginning. Perhaps they feel in his 2nd year in the defensive system with his speed and athleticism Ellis can be worthy of starting job at least.

All that being said, as of right now, given the state of the roster, I would start looking closely at the top LB's of the 2027 class as our first pick.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe the reason they kept Ellis while having no apparent interest in Gibby was that they see in Ellis a more athletic ILB who has room to develop into something better moving on. Clearly Ellis was playing better at the end of the year than he was at the beginning. Perhaps they feel in his 2nd year in the defensive system with his speed and athleticism Ellis can be worthy of starting job at least.

All that being said, as of right now, given the state of the roster, I would start looking closely at the top LB's of the 2027 class as our first pick.

I don’t think it’s clear that he was playing better, but he showed up with a few athletic plays. I’d like a LB who can read in run D and have awareness in coverage over a guy who pummels Jackson dart after a 9 yard run.
His playing time didn’t increase later in the year or in the playoffs, he played 45.8% in the SB.
It’s actually very concerning to me that Elliss couldn’t become an every down player and we got rid of the guy he wads splitting with.
He’s been in the league 5 years so I’m not optimistic he can figure it out in year 6.
We survived him last year but it surely would have been a good place to upgrade.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we have one of the worst sets of backup LBs in the league. We also have one of the worst pairs of Starting LBs in the league. But would adding Muma really take that much away from our overall suckiness anyway?




If the Pats keep 5 LBs, then Muma has the inside track to that #5 spot. I'm not placing him ahead of either Britt or Obiazor until I see all of them hitting players on other teams first...

Bottom Line: I'd feel a lot better about the state of our LBs if one of the Bobbys (Wagner/Okereke) were here.

Aren't we all in agreement that Britt and Obiazor are not exactly locks to be able t produce solid performances if called upon? Muma is a 3rd in the same situation. What Muma adds is another possibility ofr get somepne with some competence.

 

[mgteich]

Vrabel may think that he has two starting ILB's at acceptable contract levels. in addition, he may think that he has 3 who compete for backup spots at backup prices.

Adding a veteran at $9M for one year and then looking again in the off-season may make little sense. It makes more sense to go another year with Elliss and then decide how to go forward next off-season.

I could see us signing someone to compete for reps at the Vrabel's budgeted cots for a backup ILB.

There is ONE place I could see us signing a $(M veteran for a year, and that is Smith as a transition replacement for Hill.

 

[Wozzy]

Ellis starting is a bigger problem than who is the backup.

Just terrible take. He became one of their best defenders after having some issues picking up Vrabel's system the first month of the season.

Elliss elevated his play further in the postseason. Across four playoff games, he tallied 19 tackles, 2.0 sacks, two passes defended, one forced fumble, and one fumble recovery. His production was consistent throughout the run, including an 8-tackle performance in the Wild Card round against the Chargers and a crucial sack in the AFC Championship victory over the Broncos. This surge confirmed his status as a key component of the Patriots' defense during their Super Bowl run.

Ellis has athleticism and that helps him show up sometimes, but he lacks any good LB instincts. He is often out of position in the run game and seems lost in coverage often.

The Patriots had arguably the best three starting CB's in the NFL, and they struggled with zone coverage.

Gibbens was close to beating him out and played almost as many snaps (506 to 491) and we had zero interest in keeping him.
It’s not just LB depth that’s a concern, it’s a starter too, and there doesn’t seem to be anyone to threaten his job this year.

Gibbens wasn't good at either Spillane's job or Elliss's job, that's the problem. After the halfway point of the season Elliss rarely left the field on defense. Gibbens rarely played defense at all until Spillane got hurt.

Elliss, assuming he keeps his level of play, is one of the better weakside LB'ers in the AFC. Christian Elliss led the 2025 New England Patriots in both total tackles and solo tackles during the postseason. Spillane's health seems a bigger concern to me.

 

[captain stone]

...There is ONE place I could see us signing a $(M veteran for a year, and that is Smith as a transition replacement for Hill.

I'd rather have Will Dissly if the money's not a factor.

 

[Zuma]

I'm sure Vrabel will base his decision on what he's seen in practice and on special teams... not on "I hope Muma can play."

I suspect Muma is first up if Spillane gets hurt, Obiazor if Ellis got hurt and assuming he looks decent in preseason. Obi was a former safety in his younger days.

I could be wrong, but this would be really good depth and a contingency plan if I'm correct. This would be a good path with an eye on the future.

You were wrong

 

[Wozzy]

You were wrong

Jacobs was ahead of schedule. I was pretty high on Jacobs as well.

I'm not afraid of being wrong. In fact I'm pretty candid about it.

"Cut down is always interesting, i’ve never correctly predicted the initial 53, not once." - Wozzy

I've been posting online about New England sports with the same handle and profile pic since the early 90's. So when I say I've never predicted the 53 man roster fully I mean it. I post predictions, I can't see the future.

What I don't do is dance and dodge around afterwards, pretending I wasn't wrong... and that's unique for a sport's forum.

 

[Zuma]

Jacobs was ahead of schedule. I was pretty high on Jacobs as well.

lol …gold

 

[Wozzy]

lol …gold

What would you like.

Shall I go into the town square and whip myself with a hundred lashes?

 

[UGAPatsfan]

What would you like.

Shall I go into the town square and whip myself with a hundred lashes?

Hey, I thought Jam Miller would be a DUDE.

You just never know.

 

[Wozzy]

Hey, I thought Jam Miller would be a DUDE.

You just never know.

He was waived with an injury settlement I think. Any of these guys may be back later, or added to the PS.

 

[Triumph]

Hey, I thought Jam Miller would be a DUDE.

You just never know.

If he stayed healthy, Miller had the lead over the rest.

Patriots Cut Rookie Who Was Reportedly On Track To Win Key Roster Job | NESN

Jam Miller reportedly was on track to become the Patriots’ third running back before an injury and a late trade changed everything.\

nesn.com

 

[Grogan14]

Patriots will have three major problems this season:

1. They will not be able to run the ball
2. They will not be able to stop the run
3. Injuries will KILL them and Vrabel is right they have no depth

Putting it all together, I suspect they will finish third in the AFC East. Yes, the Jets overall have a deeper and better roster (other than starting QB) and expectations are so low for the lowly Jets that they will overperform.

Patriots are not making the playoffs this year, which is a blessing in disguise because they need to continue to build depth and strengthen LB, Edge and RBs.

The SB appearance last year was a complete fluke and actually hurt the rebuilding process.

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots will have three major problems this season:

1. They will not be able to run the ball
2. They will not be able to stop the run
3. Injuries will KILL them and Vrabel is right they have no depth

Putting it all together, I suspect they will finish third in the AFC East. Yes, the Jets overall have a deeper and better roster (other than starting QB) and expectations are so low for the lowly Jets that they will overperform.

Patriots are not making the playoffs this year, which is a blessing in disguise because they need to continue to build depth and strengthen LB, Edge and RBs.

The SB appearance last year was a complete fluke and actually hurt the rebuilding process.

Wanna b… oh never mind.

You have such an incredible history of being wrong, this actually turns out to be the most positive good news post for the Patriots this week.


By the way it took you zero games after going to a SB before you stated the Patriots suck garbage again. You suck.

 

[Wozzy]

Homeboy ^ can see the future and predict injuries.

Sounds scientific...

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Patriots will have three major problems this season:

1. They will not be able to run the ball

While this is a legitimate question mark, it is strange that you would state this so definitively in BOLD.

The Oline should be improved.
A healthy Campbell, Wilson to his natural position and the addition of AVT make the line better.
Additionally, the passing game should be amongst the best in the league, which in turn will make running easier. Defenses will have to play us differently this year.

We get it that you take the negative slant on everything.

Do you even like the Pats and football?
This is a legitimate question.

 

[rkarp1]

Just terrible take. He became one of their best defenders after having some issues picking up Vrabel's system the first month of the season.

Elliss elevated his play further in the postseason. Across four playoff games, he tallied 19 tackles, 2.0 sacks, two passes defended, one forced fumble, and one fumble recovery. His production was consistent throughout the run, including an 8-tackle performance in the Wild Card round against the Chargers and a crucial sack in the AFC Championship victory over the Broncos. This surge confirmed his status as a key component of the Patriots' defense during their Super Bowl run.

The Patriots had arguably the best three starting CB's in the NFL, and they struggled with zone coverage.

Gibbens wasn't good at either Spillane's job or Elliss's job, that's the problem. After the halfway point of the season Elliss rarely left the field on defense. Gibbens rarely played defense at all until Spillane got hurt.

Elliss, assuming he keeps his level of play, is one of the better weakside LB'ers in the AFC. Christian Elliss led the 2025 New England Patriots in both total tackles and solo tackles during the postseason. Spillane's health seems a bigger concern to me.

can't you simply say you don't like Gibbens rather than lie about him?
defensive snaps played:
week 3-45%
week 4-45%
week 9-45%
week 10-60%
week 13-51%
week 15-100%
week 16-100%
week 17-59%
week 18-88%

this is defensive snaps played each game (not ST snaps) by a back up.
Gibbens is no longer here because another team paid him much more than the Pats
Gibbens never played poorly
he lead the team in tackles in a few games. he wore the green dot when Spillane was out
the team won every game he started except for 1...

the team needs a back up LB like Gibbens

 

[Wozzy]

can't you simply say you don't like Gibbens rather than lie about him?
defensive snaps played:
week 3-45%
week 4-45%
week 9-45%
week 10-60%
week 13-51%
week 15-100%
week 16-100%
week 17-59%
week 18-88%

this is defensive snaps played each game (not ST snaps) by a back up.
Gibbens is no longer here because another team paid him much more than the Pats
Gibbens never played poorly
he lead the team in tackles in a few games. he wore the green dot when Spillane was out
the team won every game he started except for 1...

the team needs a back up LB like Gibbens

You seem to think if you blind the board with meaningless numbers you can fool us all.

Jack Gibbens replaced Spillane as the starting middle LB weeks 15-17.

Rushing yards allowed by Patriot D (season rank)
Week 15: 168 yards (2nd most)
Week 16: 171 yards (1st most)
Week 17: 164 yards (3rd most)

The D gave up the three highest rushing totals on the entire season.

Not coincidentally he played for Elliss midseason and was bad in coverage.

He sucked. Which is why he's gone and playing as a backup (not a starter) in Arizona.

Learn the game.

 

[rkarp1]

While this is a legitimate question mark, it is strange that you would state this so definitively in BOLD.

The Oline should be improved.
A healthy Campbell, Wilson to his natural position and the addition of AVT make the line better.
Additionally, the passing game should be amongst the best in the league, which in turn will make running easier. Defenses will have to play us differently this year.

We get it that you take the negative slant on everything.

Do you even like the Pats and football?
This is a legitimate question.

also, don't forget Gilliam!