Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[PatsFanInVa]

I have resigned myself to the fact that the core of our LB corps is thin?

Try the veal.

It's our LB coors light

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's our LB coors light

Very clever.

 

[rkarp1]

You've tried to tell me this before, here's a quote from me from 2019 with a link about the Patriots UDFA class:

"All told a pretty crappy UDFA class, the one diamond in the rough is guard Calvin Anderson from Texas, he gets my (lone) vote. He was a transfer from Rice, brilliant student, crazy good athlete, mobility would have been the best at the combine for all O-linemen, great strength and vertical. Otherwise I possibly see Jakobi Meyers making it somewhere in the NFL as a possession WR, Beck as a FB" - Wozzy Apr 30, 2019

patriotsfans.freeforums.net/thread/7725/who-next

This was on a thread about which UDFA's were going to make it in the NFL. Anderson currently plays for the Steelers, even though he has struggled to return to form after contracting malaria.

Jakobi is the guy who you and other whiners were telling us wasn't good enough when Tom was blackballing him back in 2019. Look at him now...

Andrew Beck was a TE who I said could play FB, in 2023 he signed a two year 6.2 million dollar deal with the Texans to play FB.

Talented UDFA's can make it, not talented UDFA's don't. It's not hard to separate the two. Teams good at scouting find talented UDFA's. The Pats are presumably that team.

like I said, you can always find a few over a decade who do "make it". but season over season, the numbers are what they are
Anderson has been set back with health issues
but using him as your outlier is odd.
he has been in the league 6 years. granted, thats an udfa success story.
but his snap count totals have been 12%, 24%, 47%, 45%, 4% , 4%.
is "making it" for you "hanging on"? is "making it" securing a contract?

Meyers is that player who has performed. but he was miscast playing with/for Tom. he never was able to gain Tom's level of trust, making him an after thought on Tom's Patriot teams.

 

[Water Boy]

We have one of the best starting secondaries in the NFL. Hopefully Prunty, Woods, Dial, Brown, Pettus can provide adequate depth.

We have an excellent interior rush with Williams, Barmore, Durden.

It would be nice if we had a more dominant edge rush, but if they do their job in contain in concert with the interior pressure there will be sacks and pressures to be had.

The combination of well coordinated pass rush plus sticky coverage and Byards ball hawking ability will increase our turnover rate this year.

LB is our obvious cause for concern.

Spillane
76 PFF grade (12th best)
98 passing grade against
65 solo tackles
12 pressures

Elliss
61 PFF grade
119 passing rating against
52 solo tackles
10 pressures

We need Spillane to stay solid and hopefully Elliss can improve. I think he's a big key to how well this defense can perform. The depth behind is a big unknown. Maybe Obiazor can be an improvement in pass coverage.

 

[JMC00]

Everybody's backups are weak.

It's plain and simply this. Especially if you have starters in which their talent is good to great For example the CB trio of Gonzalez, Davis and Jones of course the depth is going to seem weak because Gonzalez is a top 2-5 CB in the league, Davis is one of the better #2 CBs and Jones is a good Nickle/Slot CB.

Show me a team with good depth and I'll show you a team that doesn't have good starters.

Look at the Rams who are a supposed stacked team. If Puka and Adams go down suddenly Stafford is throwing to Jordan Whittington, Konata Mumpfield, Xavier Smith and CJ Daniels. If Garrett and Young do down suddenly Rams starting edge rushers are Josiah Stewart and Desjuan Johnson.

.

 

[rkarp1]

It's plain and simply this. Especially if you have starters in which their talent is good to great For example the CB trio of Gonzalez, Davis and Jones of course the depth is going to seem weak because Gonzalez is a top 2-5 CB in the league, Davis is one of the better #2 CBs and Jones is a good Nickle/Slot CB.

Show me a team with good depth and I'll show you a team that doesn't have good starters.

Look at the Rams who are a supposed stacked team. If Puka and Adams go down suddenly Stafford is throwing to Jordan Whittington, Konata Mumpfield, Xavier Smith and CJ Daniels. If Garrett and Young do down suddenly Rams starting edge rushers are Josiah Stewart and Desjuan Johnson.

.

yes and no
the Pats CB's are great, but have missed time over the past few seasons, especially Davis. That said, there are back ups that have seen nfl snaps on defense
the Pats LB's are not great, but average. perhaps Spillane is slightly better than average. Britt has been in the league for 5 years, but outside of 2024, has played very, very few defensive snaps. 3%, 6%, 14%, 15% in 4 of his 5 years. otherwise, there is no player on the depth chart with an nfl presence.
that does not mean Britt cannot play. it also means the untested back ups might be able to play.
but some of us would prefer to see some additional experience at the position

 

[Wozzy]

like I said, you can always find a few over a decade who do "make it". but season over season, the numbers are what they are

Anderson has been set back with health issues
but using him as your outlier is odd.
he has been in the league 6 years. granted, thats an udfa success story.
but his snap count totals have been 12%, 24%, 47%, 45%, 4% , 4%.
is "making it" for you "hanging on"? is "making it" securing a contract?

Meyers is that player who has performed. but he was miscast playing with/for Tom. he never was able to gain Tom's level of trust, making him an after thought on Tom's Patriot teams.

This is a whole lot of mindless babble.

Every offseason only 300-350 or so prospects from college get a job.

“A few over a decade?” A quarter of NFL active rosters were made up of UDFA’s… that’s more than a few.

Here's a list of UDFA's from last year's Super Bowl team:

Charles Woods
Jack Westover
Leonard Taylor
Robert Spillane
Brenden Schooler
Elijah Ponder
Jeremiah Pharms
Dell Pettus
D'Ernest Johnson
Terrell Jennings
Eric Gregory
Jack Gibbens
Christian Elliss
Cory Durden
CJ Dippre
Efton Chism
Ben Brown

Roughly a quarter of your team, and quarter of your rookies are UDFA’s. It matches the number of undrafted guys who get jobs versus those who get drafted.

The draft doesn’t make you a good NFL player, playing well does.

 

[Wozzy]

And just as a side bar… if the Patriots succeed in having a quality team build and hit on a similar percentage of rookies this offseason as the last…they’ll be one of the deepest teams in the league.

We’ll see… I don’t know how anyone could know this in June.

 

[Zoomnbyu]

Our starters are good enough to be top 10

FRONT SIX/SEVEN
Williams, Barmore, (Durden), Spillane, Ellis, Jones, Ponder/(Landry)

SECONDARY
Gonzalez, Davis, Jones. Byard, Woodson
================
BACKUPS - Some think that we have good depth, NOT. We do have a lot of players competing. It seems that we will have a playoff team with several backups on Defense who might not make the NFL elsewhere (as is true for many teams).

Look kids, mgteich is sky is falling complaining again. I for one am...

We need a couple of more players in 2026. The focus in 2027 is obvious.

FRONT SIX/SEVEN - Farmer, Gregory, Taylor, Jacas, Muma, Britt, Swinson, Luketa, Obiazor, Hutchins, Blay, Jacobs
SECONDARY - Woods, Vildor, Prunty, Dial, Minor

 

[rkarp1]

This is a whole lot of mindless babble.

Every offseason only 300-350 or so prospects from college get a job.

“A few over a decade?” A quarter of NFL active rosters were made up of UDFA’s… that’s more than a few.

Here's a list of UDFA's from last year's Super Bowl team:

Charles Woods
Jack Westover
Leonard Taylor
Robert Spillane
Brenden Schooler
Elijah Ponder
Jeremiah Pharms
Dell Pettus
D'Ernest Johnson
Terrell Jennings
Eric Gregory
Jack Gibbens
Christian Elliss
Cory Durden
CJ Dippre
Efton Chism
Ben Brown

Roughly a quarter of your team, and quarter of your rookies are UDFA’s. It matches the number of undrafted guys who get jobs versus those who get drafted.

The draft doesn’t make you a good NFL player, playing well does.

each year, roughly 500 udfa's are signed
each year, 35-50 stick on a 53 man roster
that's historically speaking

 

[Wozzy]

each year, roughly 500 udfa's are signed
each year, 35-50 stick on a 53 man roster
that's historically speaking

Everything I said was accurate. I never mentioned how many had a tryout, only how many made a team.

Roughly a quarter of active NFL rosters are UDFA’s.

We had three make the roster last season alone, ten draftees eventually made the roster. Ponder beat out a draftee Swinson for the 53, but Swinson eventually made it. A quarter is not nothing.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise of the OP. That said, to be fair, what NFL team HAS elite backups at every position on defense? Or offense?

No one comes to mind who, in a rash of injuries to a unit, could still put a solid product on the field.

Just not that many good players that you can stash and fit them under the cap at all positions.

To me, LB is the one spot that could still use a solid backup upgrade. Maybe corner.

 

[rkarp1]

Everything I said was accurate. I never mentioned how many had a tryout, only how many made a team.

Roughly a quarter of active NFL rosters are UDFA’s.

We had three make the roster last season alone, ten draftees eventually made the roster. Ponder beat out a draftee Swinson for the 53, but Swinson eventually made it. A quarter is not nothing.

• 2026: No UDFAs officially rostered yet
• 2025: 2 UDFAs — Efton Chism III (WR), Elijah Ponder (LB).
• 2024: 1 UDFA — Dell Pettus (S).
• 2023: 0 UDFAs —
• 2022: 2 UDFAs — Brenden Schooler (S), DaMarcus Mitchell (LB).
• 2021: 1 UDFA — Quinn Nordin (K).
• 2020: 1 UDFA — J.J. Taylor (RB).
• 2019: 2 UDFAs — Jakobi Meyers (WR), Gunner Olszewski (WR).
• 2018: 1 UDFA — J.C. Jackson (CB).
• 2017: 5 UDFAs — Adam Butler (DL), Cole Croston (OL), Jacob Hollister (TE), Harvey Langi (LB).

 

[BobDigital]

While I don't think our depth is strong.. I don't think it is absolutely trash as some people think. Weaker than average? Maybe. But there are alternative.

DT - Farmer had an okay rookie year. He was a decent rotation option behind back ups. Cory Durdon was very very good though and rightly took some snaps. The big thing people sometimes forget here is Eric Gregory had his rookie NFL season. Yes he was an older rookie. But he had a very good first year. IF he can improve on it... he will be a very solid #3. I have no issues with our DT depth going into next year. 2 players going into year 2 with upside and Durden being solid.

Edge - Landry is being slept on IMO. Jones is NFL starter quality. Jacas i think will have an impact when he gets back to some degree. Ponder is going into year 2 have a solid rookie campaign. They are much better off here than last year by a lot.

LB - Everyone will rightly point to this spot as the issue. Cause we just don't know... They let all 3 back up LBs walk last year and revamped it. After we thought they showed good depth. Particularly Gibbens. Britt will make the team. He is a fair run stopper and good STer. Chad? IDK. Namdi? We will see. There are a lot of questions here and if things go bad in this unit we will right question the roster building decision here.

CB - Charles Woods is a decent back up CB... not good... but decent. There are worse 4th CBs out there. He is not someone you put on the field and suddenly are start gushing blood as a defense cause he is being dunked on over and over. Hopefully Karon Punty can be better. He has traits, but we will see. Overall I think Punty is a good upside option which is what you want as your 5th guy... I do with they had a better ready to go 4th option, but they at least have one i would be okay with.. as long as he is filling in for Davis or Jones for a bit and not Gonzo.

S - Pettus is not a bad 3rd safety. He has had apparently 70+ PPF grades back to back years in limited snaps. While PFF isn't perfect and it is limited snaps he seems like he can be on a NFL defense and not embarrass himself vs starters. The eye test backs it up. After him? Who knows. Frankly to me he is one of the most slept back ups on the team. We forgot what solid depth he has been when called upon. And he is still young and might improve more next year.

Quick version

DT - 2 good 2nd year players Farmer/Gregory + Durden - Good back up situation
DE - Ponder 2nd year Jacas rookie - Ponder's yr 2 upside is big. Jacas could maybe start instantly.. not even mention Swinson.
LB - We will see... But i think If Elliss goes down Britt can fill in his roll okay. Spillane be harder to deal with.
CB - Woods can cover for Davis/Jones in a pinch for a short time. Hopefully Punty comes on strong. A better back up option be better but Woods isn't a sleeve.
S - The underrated Pettus gives us a meassure of safety. I think he can fill in 2-3 games in a row and stop the bleeding. Mike Brown as a 4th emergency option is questionable.. but Vrabel likes him.. he did okay in 2024? Who knows.

 

[Zuma]

CB - Charles Woods is a decent back up CB... not good... but decent. There are worse 4th CBs out there. He is not someone you put on the field and suddenly are start gushing blood as a defense cause he is being dunked on over and over. Hopefully Karon Punty can be better. He has traits, but we will see. Overall I think Punty is a good upside option which is what you want as your 5th guy... I do with they had a better ready to go 4th option, but they at least have one i would be okay with.. as long as he is filling in for Davis or Jones for a bit and not Gonzo.

I think Kindle Vildor is also a “decent” CB. I think him and Woods are the veteran backups.

 

[mgteich]

While I don't think our depth is strong.. I don't think it is absolutely trash as some people think. Weaker than average? Maybe. But there are alternative.

DT - Farmer had an okay rookie year. He was a decent rotation option behind back ups. Cory Durdon was very very good though and rightly took some snaps. The big thing people sometimes forget here is Eric Gregory had his rookie NFL season. Yes he was an older rookie. But he had a very good first year. IF he can improve on it... he will be a very solid #3. I have no issues with our DT depth going into next year. 2 players going into year 2 with upside and Durden being solid.

Edge - Landry is being slept on IMO. Jones is NFL starter quality. Jacas i think will have an impact when he gets back to some degree. Ponder is going into year 2 have a solid rookie campaign. They are much better off here than last year by a lot.

LB - Everyone will rightly point to this spot as the issue. Cause we just don't know... They let all 3 back up LBs walk last year and revamped it. After we thought they showed good depth. Particularly Gibbens. Britt will make the team. He is a fair run stopper and good STer. Chad? IDK. Namdi? We will see. There are a lot of questions here and if things go bad in this unit we will right question the roster building decision here.

CB - Charles Woods is a decent back up CB... not good... but decent. There are worse 4th CBs out there. He is not someone you put on the field and suddenly are start gushing blood as a defense cause he is being dunked on over and over. Hopefully Karon Punty can be better. He has traits, but we will see. Overall I think Punty is a good upside option which is what you want as your 5th guy... I do with they had a better ready to go 4th option, but they at least have one i would be okay with.. as long as he is filling in for Davis or Jones for a bit and not Gonzo.

S - Pettus is not a bad 3rd safety. He has had apparently 70+ PPF grades back to back years in limited snaps. While PFF isn't perfect and it is limited snaps he seems like he can be on a NFL defense and not embarrass himself vs starters. The eye test backs it up. After him? Who knows. Frankly to me he is one of the most slept back ups on the team. We forgot what solid depth he has been when called upon. And he is still young and might improve more next year.

Quick version

DT - 2 good 2nd year players Farmer/Gregory + Durden - Good back up situation
DE - Ponder 2nd year Jacas rookie - Ponder's yr 2 upside is big. Jacas could maybe start instantly.. not even mention Swinson.
LB - We will see... But i think If Elliss goes down Britt can fill in his roll okay. Spillane be harder to deal with.
CB - Woods can cover for Davis/Jones in a pinch for a short time. Hopefully Punty comes on strong. A better back up option be better but Woods isn't a sleeve.
S - The underrated Pettus gives us a meassure of safety. I think he can fill in 2-3 games in a row and stop the bleeding. Mike Brown as a 4th emergency option is questionable.. but Vrabel likes him.. he did okay in 2024? Who knows.

You state the situation well for each group.

1) If Durden is a backup, then we have good depth at DT. I consider Durden a starter.

2) I agree that a healthy Landry and Jacas would be good additions to Jones and Ponder, and would give us an OK group.

3) I disagree with regard to ILB, CB and S. I think that almost all the backups would have trouble making other teams, except as STers.

4) That being said, I like Pettus, Britt, Muma, and Prunty as STers.