OT: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

[JackBauer]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Keller is overrated and not that good, but 54 year old and 765 pound Crumpler just might be the best tight end in the history of the universe.

Actually, the NFL and ESPN websites have him listed at a slim 262 pounds

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Brady being Brady will cure a lot of ills, no question in my mind.

Closet homer.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

The more rabid Patriots homers are in a sad state right now. They used to be able to ignore the doubters, because the team was so very good. Anything negative could be answered with some variant of "scoreboard!". That's no longer the case. They ignored all signs of problems, so this is a shocking new development for them. They defended every move by BB, so every problem is a player problem (overlooking, of course, that BB was the one acquiring the players). They're still trying to deal with it by just calling out anyone who questions the team, rather than admitting to the problems. Hell, some of them still defend the Burgess trade.

Today, it's not just the lunatic fringe that is questioning the team and pointing out problems. It's rational people, former 'homers', and the team front office itself coming public with admissions of problems. It's team members, and the more accepting reporters (SMY, MR, etc...). Those rabid homers are now sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "La La La! I'm not listening". Everything is overvalued if it's from NE, and completely diminished if it's from anywhere else:

Cromartie's a stiff who can't play, but Lewis is going to make the transition to 3-4 DE and really anchor the line.

Keller is overrated and not that good, but 54 year old and 765 pound Crumpler just might be the best tight end in the history of the universe.

Greene is overrated and LdT is done, but Fred Taylor will be back strong, Morris will be a monster, and BJGE is an All Pro just waiting for his opportunity.



Then, on the flip side, you've got those who've panicked in the opposite direction and are doing things like already predicting the Patriots to go .500 or less for the season.

Welcome to this year's offseason here at Patsfans.com.....

LOL...Wait, you forgot to mention the most important group. Enlightened posters who now mock any post that doesn't conform to the self proclaimed enlightenment of Deus Irae. As compared to some of us who profess to trust some stiff like Belichick -, who has only proven in the last twelve months underscored by the trading of Syemour for a 1st ,that he doesn't have a clue what it takes to build a winning team anymore.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

really? everytime i read this message board you guys somehow make dumber and dumber posts

I just pointed out problems with Patriots homers, and you come bearing this gift....

Brady or Sanchez.. how many more years does each player have??

Sanchez was the worst starting quarterback in the NFL last season not named Jamarcus Russell. If he keeps that up, Patriots fans would love him to have a 20 year career.

Moss and crippled welker or Braylon Holmes and Cotch? Jets WR core has a lot more GOOD years left... you can't really get a much better trio than that

1.) Moss and Welker, all day.

2.) If you take the time to realize that the new CBA is likely to have a salary cap, you'll figure out that it's not likely the Jets will be keeping both Edwards and Holmes, unless one of them has a terrible season and is available on the cheap.

Crumpler (LOL) or Keller- again is this really a question?

No, you're right. Keller is better than an aging, overweight veteran who's likely on his last legs. Season starts tomorrow, right?

Fred Taylor and Morris or Greene, Leon, and LT you guys think you can compare with the Jets RB? hahahah that is funny.

Faulk v. Washington, Taylor v. LdT, the question mark that is Greene... Pimping your running back stable as so much better than New England's that it's beyond comparison is probably not the brightest move you can make.

NE O-line or Jets no comment again. Jets are going to be one of the best Olines for years to come.

Great. That means they'll be almost as good as the Patriots O-line. The Jets are better than New England at one spot on the line center, and Woody should probably be given the nod over Vollmer at RT until Vollmer proves otherwise during the season. Light is much better than D'Bust, Mankins is better than Faneca, and it's a knockout victory for Neal at RG.

Jets D
Secondary- Revis, Cromartie, Poole, Leonard, and Lowery ALL YOUNG and dirty.

Outside of Revis, you've got all sorts of question marks here. How the questions are answered will go a long way into deciding how good the defense will be.

Linebackers- Pace, Harris, Scott, Thomas, soon to be Taylor, and Gholston who is looking like a bust but still young.. All of them besides Taylor have many great years left in them.

You're overrating this group. By a lot.

DLine- SOLID. the Jets have a very solid D-line as you could tell when our best D player behind Revis went down, Jenkins, the Jets didn't miss a beat and still were #1 D.. Devito and Pouha are young and solid. Ellis is very underrated and has another 2 good years.
We have NO needs.. we are going to draft a Pass rusher or big DT and be set up for the future.

Your D-line is a weakness. It was covered up by the blitzing. If Jenkins can finally stay healthy, that will change the equation.

and keep dreaming about your AWFUL RB's and keep drafting awful

No team had a better 2007 draft than the Patriots. 2008 brought Mayo and Guyton (UDFA). 2009 brought a slew of players, all but one of whom made the team, and several of which showed promise as significant players.



Thanks for your post. Quality Jets posters like Gunnails are disconcerting, because they upset the natural order of the universe. They are not supposed to exist. It gives me hope when Jets fans show their normal tendencies towards the ridiculous with posts like yours.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Actually, the NFL and ESPN websites have him listed at a slim 262 pounds

Hey, if he can come out trim and agile, that would be a tremendous help to the team. It's that K. Brady/Fauria question we touched on earlier.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

LOL...Wait, you forgot to mention the most important group. Enlightened posters who now mock any post that doesn't conform to the self proclaimed enlightenment of Deus Irae. As compared to some of us who profess to trust some stiff like Belichick -, who has only proven in the last twelve months underscored by the trading of Syemour for a 1st ,that he doesn't have a clue what it takes to build a winning team anymore.

I don't "mock any post that doesn't conform" to my opinion. I take most posters seriously and give their posts the attention they deserve. JackBauer and I have several disagreements about the current state of the team, yet we keep it civil.

It's the out of control, rabid, homers such as yourself that I mock, and deservedly so. This isn't 2001-2007 anymore. 2008 and 2009 really happened, and we're now in 2010.

As for building a winning team, I assume that's a freaking joke, right? I mean, you have been following the defense without Seymour and the stories about the locker room problems, right?


Oh, wait, It's Mo I'm talking to, and he's making my point about how those distraught homers are acting. Here Mo, just for you, a comrade in arms....

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

When I saw the trade, I couldn't wait to get here to read all the Patriot fan angst on this move by the Jesters.

I definitely fall into its a great move for them considering its a 5th round pick....we would all be slobbering over ourselves if the Pats had pulled the trigger on this trade for a 4th....give credit where credit is due.

As for the other off season moves by the Jesters....not as impressed although the Cromartie trade could work out...really just have to wait and see...the LT trade....LOL....

Bottom line....the Jesters just got better....while the Pats did not.

As an aside...I still think the Ravens have had the best off season so far and they just had a better one with this trade.

 

[lillloyd]

Steelers fan here (*ducks*). I come in peace however

I've been looking over some of the other teams' forums just to see their reactions. I thought I'd clear up a few things brought up in this thread.

Ed Bouchette, the a very well-respected Steelers beat writer, said that the trade is straight-up for the 5th rounder and no other players are involved. He said that Holmes would have been outright released if no teams could be found for a trade. He also suggested that the Steelers may have been considering moving Holmes even prior to the suspension rumors, as Pitt brought in both Dez Bryant and Golden Tate to interview recently, which was a curious move considering the steelers appeared to already have good talent at the receiver position. Here's the link:

Steelers were ready to cut Holmes before trade

Bouchette also has a blog, on which he says "Instead of cutting Santonio Holmes, the Steelers managed to get a fifth-round draft choice for him. Do not rue his departure because I would bet there are players already cheering in the locker room. He was not a good teammate, either."

None of this means that this wasn't a great trade for the Jets. They basically took a 5th round flyer on a proven, young WR talent who's been at his best in big games. It's not unlike the Moss trade a few years ago; if that had blown up for the Pats, all they would have lost was a 4th. I think Holmes will play hard and play well in his contract year.

Steelers fans are apoplectic of course over the low draft pick. I'm guessing we might have done a bit better if we'd really scoured the market, but probably not much better. He's an excellent talent, but he is in his final year. He's already been suspended 4 games. And he's a knucklehead--he's been indicted 3 times in his 4 years (although all charges were dropped), and that was before the weird drink fiasco and drug (?) suspension. It's similar to our Plexico (another knucklehead) situation after '04--we let him walk in FA, and he was a good addition to the Giants until he imploded. It took a couple of years but we recovered (ironically, by drafting Holmes in '06)

The Steelers FO will get raked over the coals for this, but what could they do. Ownership is furious over what's been a horrible offseason. I'm not a fan who's bought into the notion that the Steelers have been somehow 'better' as an organization from a character standpoint over the years--they've had their fair share of issues even prior to this year, like most teams. The NFL is not a bunch of choir boys. However I do believe that ownership does *try* to avoid this sort of thing, and I think the Rooneys--a proud bunch--are basically humiliated and embarrassed over what's happened this year. Hence the ridiculous-looking trade of Holmes.

I expect the Steelers will also discipline/suspend Roethlisberger (even though it appears there will be no charges today, and was never indicted in the NV case). That's the final part of the equation with the Holmes trade--it was also probably an attempt by the Steelers to say to Ben, we're not above cutting a SB MVP, and one more strike and you're out.

Cheers,

lillloyd

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Informative post Steelers fan. I do agree the JETs got a bargain, even with the baggage. PIT did what it had to do.

 

[Deus Irae]

Informative post Steelers fan. I do agree the JETs got a bargain, even with the baggage. PIT did what it had to do.

The same sort of scenario could well play out with AdT, minus the draft pick....



This message board may overtax the internet if it does.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Big Ben tweeted:

LOL!

Apparently Holmes should have raped 2 woman instead of smoking weed. Then he wouldn't have been singled out by the Steelers FO like this.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I don't "mock any post that doesn't conform" to my opinion. I take most posters seriously and give their posts the attention they deserve. JackBauer and I have several disagreements about the current state of the team, yet we keep it civil.

It's the out of control, rabid, homers such as yourself that I mock, and deservedly so. This isn't 2001-2007 anymore. 2008 and 2009 really happened, and we're now in 2010.

As for building a winning team, I assume that's a freaking joke, right? I mean, you have been following the defense without Seymour and the stories about the locker room problems, right?


Oh, wait, It's Mo I'm talking to, and he's making my point about how those distraught homers are acting. Here Mo, just for you, a comrade in arms....

Mo is still living in the world of 2001-2007,I guess no one has told him its 3 years later - This team is still trying to pick up the pieces of losing so many championship vets and starting players who were a valuable part of this team and have yet to be replaced both on the field and in the locker room

...its hard when you are a diehard homer like Mo and others here to face reality,a team that has been on top for so long will decend for at least a little while - no team stays on top forever .....this team is in a partial rebuilding phase and probably a few years away from maybe building back up a championship caliber team if they can hit on some draft picks.

While I am not saying winning the AFC East is impossible for the Pats because they are still defending champs,the truth is the other teams are quickly catching up to the Pats and the notion that the Jets could potentially take over the reigns of the East seems to be going in one ear and out the other to our resident homers who continue to look back at 40 years of futility for the Jets and see no possibility of turnaround. - people were saying the same similar things about the Pats from 1988-1994 before Parcells brought a winning atttiude here.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Steelers fan here (*ducks*). I come in peace however

I've been looking over some of the other teams' forums just to see their reactions. I thought I'd clear up a few things brought up in this thread.

Ed Bouchette, the a very well-respected Steelers beat writer, said that the trade is straight-up for the 5th rounder and no other players are involved. He said that Holmes would have been outright released if no teams could be found for a trade. He also suggested that the Steelers may have been considering moving Holmes even prior to the suspension rumors, as Pitt brought in both Dez Bryant and Golden Tate to interview recently, which was a curious move considering the steelers appeared to already have good talent at the receiver position. Here's the link:

Steelers were ready to cut Holmes before trade

Bouchette also has a blog, on which he says "Instead of cutting Santonio Holmes, the Steelers managed to get a fifth-round draft choice for him. Do not rue his departure because I would bet there are players already cheering in the locker room. He was not a good teammate, either."

None of this means that this wasn't a great trade for the Jets. They basically took a 5th round flyer on a proven, young WR talent who's been at his best in big games. It's not unlike the Moss trade a few years ago; if that had blown up for the Pats, all they would have lost was a 4th. I think Holmes will play hard and play well in his contract year.

Steelers fans are apoplectic of course over the low draft pick. I'm guessing we might have done a bit better if we'd really scoured the market, but probably not much better. He's an excellent talent, but he is in his final year. He's already been suspended 4 games. And he's a knucklehead--he's been indicted 3 times in his 4 years (although all charges were dropped), and that was before the weird drink fiasco and drug (?) suspension. It's similar to our Plexico (another knucklehead) situation after '04--we let him walk in FA, and he was a good addition to the Giants until he imploded. It took a couple of years but we recovered (ironically, by drafting Holmes in '06)

The Steelers FO will get raked over the coals for this, but what could they do. Ownership is furious over what's been a horrible offseason. I'm not a fan who's bought into the notion that the Steelers have been somehow 'better' as an organization from a character standpoint over the years--they've had their fair share of issues even prior to this year, like most teams. The NFL is not a bunch of choir boys. However I do believe that ownership does *try* to avoid this sort of thing, and I think the Rooneys--a proud bunch--are basically humiliated and embarrassed over what's happened this year. Hence the ridiculous-looking trade of Holmes.

I expect the Steelers will also discipline/suspend Roethlisberger (even though it appears there will be no charges today, and was never indicted in the NV case). That's the final part of the equation with the Holmes trade--it was also probably an attempt by the Steelers to say to Ben, we're not above cutting a SB MVP, and one more strike and you're out.

Cheers,

lillloyd

Great post, really informative stuff. Out of curiosity, do you think that Wallace's emergence last year was the catalyst behind this, did he become exceptionally bad in the last year, or was he always this bad but they just couldn't ditch him coming off of a SB MVP?

Definitely reminds me of our situation with Adalius, if Adalius was young and talented.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I just pointed out problems with Patriots homers, and you come bearing this gift....



Thanks for your post. Quality Jets posters like Gunnails are disconcerting, because they upset the natural order of the universe. They are not supposed to exist. It gives me hope when Jets fans show their normal tendencies towards the ridiculous with posts like yours.

Think about it this way: what kind of fan would, upon the Jets getting Holmes, immediately feel the need to go and register "A Dark Day in NE" and spam our forums all throughout his 'work' day? At best, he's a petty kid who still hasn't figured out that the next SB won in April will be the first. More likely, he's a certified basement-dweller with a massive inferiority complex.

 

[Wretch]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

I would agree with that, but Keller is overrated. Many people talk about this guy as a top TE, but he really isn't very close. He is just better than anything the Pats have right now. Granted that could change if the Pats draft Gresham.

My thought was the TE has 2 roles, receiver and blocker. Keller is a better receiver, Crumpler a better blocker, hence the push. If you in your evaluation rate a receiving TE higher than the blocking TE that's legitimate, but the advantage of Keller over Crumpler isn't huge considering how the Pats don't utilize the TE as a receiver as much as other teams.

 

[Metaphors]

The Steelers FO will get raked over the coals for this, but what could they do.

Banish him to TB for conditional 2011 picks and a cheese sandwich. If the Ravens and Patriots win their respective divisions, the Jets and Steelers (along with the Broncos, Texans and yearly surprise team) will be competing for the same playoff spots. The Jets getting Holmes (assuming no further boneheadedness) helps them more than a 5th round pick helps the Steelers.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

BTW, it seems that my immediate thought on this trade--that in addition to it just being a no-brainer value-wise, it's pretty much a punt on the Braylon Edwards trade--doesn't seem to be shared by anyone else? Am I missing a connection, or imaging one where there is none?

Also, has anyone seen David Clowney's Twitter in the last day? I think someone might have to talk him down off a ledge:

"Lord what am I doing wrong"
about 14 hours ago via Echofon

"I know this is a test,.. But God never puts you thru anything you can't handle. I trust you Lord"
about 13 hours ago via Echofon

 

[Kontradiction]

you can officially say that it will at least be entertaining to watch the jets this year......they've got some real character issues on that team.....either they will be scary good, or the whole team is going to explode

This is pretty much as dead on as it gets. This deal has extremely high risk, extremely high reward potential. If Santonio plays nice after the suspension ends this season, the Jets just massively upgraded that offense to go along with the defense we all know they have. If things go poorly and Holmes doesn't play nice, that locker room will (pretty easily) fracture and break beyond repair, which would be entertaining. Sanchez sucked bad this past year, but with all of the weapons he has around him it should be pretty easy to make improvements. The Jets can actually now just sit back and concentrate on the RB and safety positions in the draft. As for us, I hope we have a great draft. We're going to need it if the current offseason trend continues and we don't make moves to pick up vets at positions of need.

Oh, and the reactions in this thread are f'n priceless, by the way. I loved all of the early punting to Cromartie.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

who the hell cares what he wants? what is he going to do retire? i pray he gets traded for a second then we could just draft a better RB in the 2nd round. theres a lot of talent in this draft at the RB position.

Hahaha, 2 days ago all the Jets fans here were talking about how Washington is a game-changing talent who's a threat to break it for a touchdown on every play. Now he's totally replaceable and doesn't warrant a second though. You folks sure changed your opinion on him in a hurry...

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Steelers ship Santonio to the Jets

Hey, if he can come out trim and agile, that would be a tremendous help to the team. It's that K. Brady/Fauria question we touched on earlier.

Oh it was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek... one of those instances where the listed numbers bear no correlation to reality (i.e. Vince Wilfork being listed at 325 lbs).