OT Sean Payton "stepping away"

[Pape]

The Saints can restructure contracts and not only get under the cap without cutting anyone, they can end up with over $20 million in cap space next year.

The Pats are in a much worse cap situation.

I think Payton is going to Dallas, its just a matter of time until Jerrah makes the deal with the Saints.

We are in a much worse position? than a team that's 75 million over the cap, carried 45 players with a dead cap hit in 21, will have to do the same this year to get under the cap... And you think we are in a worse position? Did you type that with a straight face, or were you laughing the whole time?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

how are the Pats in much worse cap situation?

The Pats currently have 9 million in cap space, They can clear another $4.3 million by making McCourty a post June 1st cut. But other than that, they really have no contracts they can restructure to clear additional cap space. AssUmeing, they franchise JCJ, they are already $1.8 million over the cap.

None of which accounts for UFAs Trent Brown, White, Karras, Bentley etc.

I also assume they will at least give Meyers and original round tender as a RFA, which will add another $2.4 million over the cap.

New England Patriots Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Feel free to go to OTC and use the calculator for both the Pats and the Saints. With the Saints, you can restructure their top ten contracts, you don't have to cut anyone and they end up with $20,000,000 in cap space. Once the pats franchise JCJ, they are over the cap. The only players you can cut that would create more cap space than dead money are Mason and Jonathan Jones. I don't think anyone here thinks that those guys should be cut.

 

[Ross12]

The Pats currently have 9 million in cap space, They can clear another $4.3 million by making McCourty a post June 1st cut. But other than that, they really have no contracts they can restructure to clear additional cap space. AssUmeing, they franchise JCJ, they are already $1.8 million over the cap.

None of which accounts for UFAs Trent Brown, White, Karras, Bentley etc.

I also assume they will at least give Meyers and original round tender as a RFA, which will add another $2.4 million over the cap.

New England Patriots Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Feel free to go to OTC and use the calculator for both the Pats and the Saints. With the Saints, you can restructure their top ten contracts, you don't have to cut anyone and they end up with $20,000,000 in cap space. Once the pats franchise JCJ, they are over the cap. The only players you can cut that would create more cap space than dead money are Mason and Jonathan Jones. I don't think anyone here thinks that those guys should be cut.

? They can restructure most of their big signings from last year if they want. They could extend some guys like Mason. Not sure why you are looking at the theoretically maximized moves the Saints can make but not doing the same for the Patriots.

 

[Sicilian]

The Pats currently have 9 million in cap space, They can clear another $4.3 million by making McCourty a post June 1st cut. But other than that, they really have no contracts they can restructure to clear additional cap space. AssUmeing, they franchise JCJ, they are already $1.8 million over the cap.

None of which accounts for UFAs Trent Brown, White, Karras, Bentley etc.

I also assume they will at least give Meyers and original round tender as a RFA, which will add another $2.4 million over the cap.

New England Patriots Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Feel free to go to OTC and use the calculator for both the Pats and the Saints. With the Saints, you can restructure their top ten contracts, you don't have to cut anyone and they end up with $20,000,000 in cap space. Once the pats franchise JCJ, they are over the cap. The only players you can cut that would create more cap space than dead money are Mason and Jonathan Jones. I don't think anyone here thinks that those guys should be cut.

Miguel was on a few podcasts recently, and accounting for Meyers and Johnson getting RFA tenders, he said they can easily get to about 30m under with some pretty standard restructures of guys like Judon, Godchaux, and some others. They can get more if they trade/cut guys, but that's 30m without having to lose any players (other than their UFA's). @Miguel please correct me if I completely misinterpreted your recent interviews.

 

[Wozzy]

Miguel was on a few podcasts recently, and accounting for Meyers and Johnson getting RFA tenders, he said they can easily get to about 30m under with some pretty standard restructures of guys like Judon, Godchaux, and some others. They can get more if they trade/cut guys, but that's 30m without having to lose any players (other than their UFA's). @Miguel please correct me if I completely misinterpreted your recent interviews.

This ^

The Pats can move money around easily. They aren't scheduled to pay Mac until 2025. They have all their draft picks. Agholor is in the final year of his deal. Henry is only on a three year deal with one year gone, has been very good... they could easily extend him to lower his cap. Judon's money can be moved around easily.

The Pat's were in terrible shape at the end of 2019... that's why the reset in 2020 was necessary. That's why Tom Brady is gone, he didn't want to play for peanuts on a rebuilding team, and the Patriots didn't want to continue borrowing against future cap to keep trying to win... when in fact they probably couldn't.

A quarter of their cap was spent entering 2020 on 72 players no longer on the team and on Gilmore, who had pushed his cap debt into the future twice in 2018 and 2019. They had roughly 11 starters needing to be re-signed or replaced including at QB... the most expensive position on any team. Compared to then, the Pats are in great shape.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

The Pats currently have 9 million in cap space, They can clear another $4.3 million by making McCourty a post June 1st cut

Honestly, sometimes I have trouble understanding how all of those contract works. Isn’t McCourty supposed to be a free agent in March? How can he be a post June 1st cut?

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I never understand this argument. “They’re not in a bad spot, they can just convert the money into signing bonuses!” Okay, but then they’re just spreading this year’s trouble out across several future years. They’ll get under the cap, because they have to, but it will basically handicap them for several years financially. Bizarre that people try to brush it off as if it’s not a problem.

Too many who buy into the BS narrative of "Cap is crap!"

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Managing their cap for a "win while we have Brees" strategy wasn't just the coach's decision. That's on the entire organization. Heck, he could have told them years ago that he was going to leave when the strategy had run its course. I've got no problem with him doing this, especially if he takes a year or two to recover from the physical and mental stresses of NFL coaching. He can decide if/when to come back to it, or discover that he prefers a different life for himself.

And, this is a great job for a next coach. Low expectations, you get to clean house and bring in your own players, and have a five year rebuilding plan in a Division that's full of mediocrity. The best of the young star QB's are in the AFC.

If the owner is patient enough to allow a coach to do a full rebuild, a lot of times they get fired 2-3 years in

 

[Ross12]

Miguel was on a few podcasts recently, and accounting for Meyers and Johnson getting RFA tenders, he said they can easily get to about 30m under with some pretty standard restructures of guys like Judon, Godchaux, and some others. They can get more if they trade/cut guys, but that's 30m without having to lose any players (other than their UFA's). @Miguel please correct me if I completely misinterpreted your recent interviews.

Yeah you’re correct based on my understanding. It’s all available for browsing on Overthecap.com, too, which is weird since that was used as the reference for why the Saints are fine, but apparently ignored for the Patriots?

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah you’re correct based on my understanding. It’s all available for browsing on Overthecap.com, too, which is weird since that was used as the reference for why the Saints are fine, but apparently ignored for the Patriots?

Miguel's numbers are much more stringent (accurate) then OverTheCap or Spotrac, but that doesn't make their numbers wrong. They're accurate relative to each other.

Miguel does the cap numbers for the Patriots, not for 32 teams. I'm sure if he did them for the Saints they would look substantially more dire then they appear now on both of those websites. The Saints are in cap hell with no chance to win a ring, that's why their coach slipped out the side door.

If Miguel did numbers for every team and we compared them, the Pats would probably sit somewhere in the middle of the pack in available cap space like they appear to do on these two sites, they also currently have the 7th most players under contract... which is relevant for a team that made the playoffs and who are trending up not down.

If we hold Miguel's Patriot's numbers up for comparison to the rest of the league using these two websites, of course the Pat's situation looks really bad.... but this is a tilted craps table. One accurate number versus 31 inaccurate numbers.

 

[masterbouncer]

Honestly, sometimes I have trouble understanding how all of those contract works. Isn’t McCourty supposed to be a free agent in March? How can he be a post June 1st cut?

DMac signed a 5 year ext. while 3 of this 5 years are void years, why was that done? to get the signing bonus distributed over the remaining years and lower the cap, however if DMac does not extend his contract or retires after 2021, the prorated signing bonus that was distributed over the 3 years will hit the Pats Cap in 2022 in total (which is 6M something)

 

[Bill Lee]

Most of those big dollars provide an illusion for the player to claim they broke the bank...

That, plus the agent gets bragging rights that help them recruit the next sucker who still doesn't realize he almost certainly won't see the full value of the contract.

It's all a tottering pile of shyte, IMO.

We're now living in the realm of "conditional guarantees" i.e. "guarantees that become guarantees if the player is on the roster two years from now" so not actually a guarantee, etc.

But overall it seems most people feel it's a harmless fiction that players, agents, the media and certain fans enjoy.

The only victim is the truth.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Their run in the playoffs kept coming to a hault when teams paid all their attention to Thomas. Noodle arm Brees didn’t know what to do with himself. Every year they would throw their arms up in confusion when they couldn’t move the ball.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Honestly, sometimes I have trouble understanding how all of those contract works. Isn’t McCourty supposed to be a free agent in March? How can he be a post June 1st cut?

He has three voided years on the back of his contract, so no, he is not a free agent, the Pats have to cut him, or restructure his deal if he wants to play more. I guess he can retire.

Similar to how they handled Chung's contract last year.

 

[BTTA]

If the owner is patient enough to allow a coach to do a full rebuild, a lot of times they get fired 2-3 years in

Agree. It would have to be part of the contract negotiations: a shared vision of what's about to happen and how they will measure success.

 

[Ross12]

Miguel's numbers are much more stringent (accurate) then OverTheCap or Spotrac, but that doesn't make their numbers wrong. They're accurate relative to each other.

Miguel does the cap numbers for the Patriots, not for 32 teams. I'm sure if he did them for the Saints they would look substantially more dire then they appear now on both of those websites. The Saints are in cap hell with no chance to win a ring, that's why their coach slipped out the side door.

If Miguel did numbers for every team and we compared them, the Pats would probably sit somewhere in the middle of the pack in available cap space like they appear to do on these two sites, they also currently have the 7th most players under contract... which is relevant for a team that made the playoffs and who are trending up not down.

If we hold Miguel's Patriot's numbers up for comparison to the rest of the league using these two websites, of course the Pat's situation looks really bad.... but this is a tilted craps table. One accurate number versus 31 inaccurate numbers.

Yeah, Miguel is projecting moves that are nearly guaranteed to be made and accounting for them in his total. Sites like OTC aren't doing that. But the reason I used it as a reference is just because that was the site which was used as a reference in the first place to initiate this discussion.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I respect walking away from a mess. Fix this team with Hill and Winston or simply walk away and make millions on TV. He'll definitely want to coach again but I think he'll love it on the other side.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah, Miguel is projecting moves that are nearly guaranteed to be made and accounting for them in his total. Sites like OTC aren't doing that. But the reason I used it as a reference is just because that was the site which was used as a reference in the first place to initiate this discussion.

Agreed, I'd classify Miguel's numbers as updated and the other two major websites as not updated.

He tirelessly does free work on behalf of Pat's fans, we owe him our thanks.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

He has three voided years on the back of his contract, so no, he is not a free agent, the Pats have to cut him, or restructure his deal if he wants to play more. I guess he can retire.

Similar to how they handled Chung's contract last year.

Chung was under contract. From my understanding when you have void years you are not under contract. That’s the point of void years. It’s fake years on a contract to spread the cap. McCourty contract void just before the new league start so McCourty become a free agent and the patriots are accountable for the cap of the 3 voided years. Even if he resign the patriots are still accountable for the void year + his new contract.

Brady had void years too in his contract and was a free agent.

98.5 the sports hub list McCourty has a UFA.
A look at the Patriots’ pending free agents for 2022

 

[Ross12]

Chung was under contract. From my understanding when you have void years you are not under contract. That’s the point of void years. It’s fake years on a contract to spread the cap. McCourty contract void just before the new league start so McCourty become a free agent and the patriots are accountable for the cap of the 3 voided years. Even if he resign the patriots are still accountable for the void year + his new contract.

Brady had void years too in his contract and was a free agent.

98.5 the sports hub list McCourty has a UFA.
A look at the Patriots’ pending free agents for 2022

Correct, his contract will automatically void around the first day of the new league year. At that point he is an unrestricted free agent and all of his void years' cap hits accelerate onto the 2022 cap. If the Pats sign him again after that, that's a new deal and doesn't remove the already existing dead money hit from his old deal. However, if they extend him at least 1 more year to keep him for 2022, then the void years stay as they are or can be reworked however they want.

That's why many of us think he will be extended. He might cost $6-7 million a year. If he leaves, they take a >$6M cap hit in dead money this year and he's not even here. If he stays, they can potentially save cap space and actually keep him at the same time, and push some of that dead money further out into the future when space is more plentiful and hopefully at a lower figure.