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OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

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Here's some numbers to think about.

Bradys winning % in the regular season without Bill is .667.
Bill's winning % in the regular season without Brady is .476.
Note that Brady's numbers are at age 43 with a worse HC.

Brady's winning % with the Pats in 2019 was .775.
Cam's winning % with the Pats in 2020 is .400.
Note that the 2019 Pats were a weaker team.

Bradys playoff winning % without Bill is TBD, but overall he's .732
Bill's playoff winning % without Brady is .500

Anyone who doesn't think the Pats would be better with Brady are kidding themselves. Each week it gets more and more difficult to see him playing in another uniform. And now Gronk is rounding into shape. I think I'm going to be sick.

Good post...I think Belichick is one of the best coaches ever (along with Walsh and Brown) so this is more about how great Brady is than dumping on Bill. But...even looking at the Patriots after the 5-11 season in 2000.

Belichick was 0-2 without Brady in 2001
10-5 without Brady in 2008 (with a historically great team)
3-1 without Brady in 2016
2-3 without Brady so far in 2020

Which adds up to 15-11 (.577) in the "dynasty era" where this now his team, his drafts, his coaches, etc.

And if you want to throw in 2000, his overall record with the Patriots, without Brady, is 20-22 (.476). You had noted his winning percentage as .476, but that is just in New England. If you add in his Cleveland tenure, he is 56-66 (.456). Not a big huge difference in New England without Brady and in Cleveland without Brady.

Having Brady is a big deal. I'm very skeptical that Bill would have won over .750 even with someone like Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc.
 
I apologize if I missed it but if we’re discussing whether Brady could win a super bowl with this current team then I completely agree. I think Brady might manage to pull out a 10-6 or 11-5 season but as far as winning it all I think it would end up looking more like last years postseason as opposed to years prior.
Agreed. So, that is why I’m personally ok w “moving on”. Maybe if we were Cleveland fans, the novelty of making the playoffs would be worth it
 
You're right...it wasn't a historically great team because of one injury, which is the entire point.
Nah it was more than that. The wildcat game was plenty of evidence that the team really wasn't that good.
 
i think kraft should trade BB for 2-3 first rounders when he can get them. As per some here, he is going to suck bad now so his value might go down.
 
Why is it that no one...I mean no one in the national media cares about this now, even though all we heard about in 2019 was the historic ramifications of this sacred record which shall be the focus of every network?

 
Why is it that no one...I mean no one in the national media cares about this now, even though all we heard about in 2019 was the historic ramifications of this sacred record which shall be the focus of every network?

Time for alternating game stoppages when they go back and forth passing each other? LOL
 
“Better”, sure. I can’t talk for the others, but I’m saying “who cares if we are better if it still means no SB ?” I think it had come time to move on. Rebuilding is necessary for NE and Brady needn’t stick around for that. He can keep chasing the championship.
I think the Pats would be chasing another SB if Brady were here and I don't think that rebuilding is in Bill or Tom's DNA.
 
Time for alternating game stoppages when they go back and forth passing each other? LOL

It may be shaping up for Brady to pass Brees when they play the Saints in two weeks.
 
  • Agree
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I really hate using “gaslight”, but it seems to be applicable for a lot of posters here. Holy ****. You’re an absolute clown. I’m not rooting for anyone to fail. I’m watching the games and objectively commenting about them. Apparently I can’t do that here with you assholes.
A lot of people in this thread are still working through twenty years of baggage and aren't that interested in looking at the 2020 season except to gain things like validation or vindication. Look at how many posts in this thread are about things that happened in 2019 or before vs 2020, and how many are about 'what if TFB was still on the Pats?'. Well, he ain't, and there's no redo. He plays for Tampa. Doing the 'what if' thing just isn't productive. It's all about willy waving and score settling.
Most teams’ rebuilds are a lot uglier.
Ours (this is still a NE forum, right?) really is just starting. We're still one of the oldest teams in the league even after TB12 left. We're still carrying lots of cap hits including TB12s that were made hoping to get one more year out of the old run. Cam is IMO on a one year business trip, two years at best.
Mitchell had multiple knee surgeries in high school, college, and in the NFL. Drafting him was a big risk as it wasn’t likely he’d have a long career due to his knee issues. I don’t think you can list him as a successful draft pick when we knew about his issues and he only lasted a year.
That's what happens when you're a dynasty, you have a crappy draft position year after year, you gotta take risks on unhealthy guys and hope they can get past injuries. Some times it works (Gronk), some times it does not (Mitchell). The only real ways to do better than your draft position dictates is (a) take chances or (b) get lucky.
Brady was good yesterday. I thought he played well against Chicago too, 4th-down-gate notwithstanding.

But it was the Bucs defense that won that game yesterday, without a doubt. They were phenomenal. No penalties (I think) too.
It was an interesting game.

At the end of the first quarter, it was GB 10, TB 0, Tampa had two short drives and no scores, GB had two long drives and a TD and a FG.

Then the pick-six happens followed by another INT and it seems pretty clear Rodgers is rattled and off his game.

Tampa to its credit kept the pressure on, played a strong game on both offense and defense, and avoided penalties and picks.

Aikman was right when he said Brady and Gronk were clinical, let's hope TB12 doesn't rely too much on that and gets more players like Grait and Miller more involved.

Hopefully it's a turning point for them and they keep playing at this level or better.

Their next six games are LV (SNF), NYG (MNF), NO (TNF), CAR (Sun 1PM), LAR (MNF), KC (Sun 4PM).

Should be some competitive, exciting games in that sequence, most of them on national TV.

If they play like yesterday they could really pull away from the pack, they have one in the win column over NO already.

Personally I hope the games are more exciting than GB was, it was over at the half.

Congrats to Tampa for keeping the pressure on and having a great game once they had GB and Rodgers on the ropes.
 
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I am just speculating here, but I think a small part of Brady decision to leave is « lack of appreciation » in the sense that Bill was always chewing him up in video sessions but when Bill made mistakes, I don’t think he was always forthcoming on his. Like, i don’t think he really explained to the team what was the reason to benching Butler and I think he pissed off a lot of players. Especially Brady who think that Bill costed the them the 2017 SB.

in my opinion, the main reason Brady left is he recognized that he had not 10 year left is his career and despite the 2018 SB, he acknowledged that the talent on offense was declining and it wasn’t enough to win it all. He didn’t want to pass his last few years on a team with almost no talent. If Bill had brought talent on this offense the last two years, Brady would have stayed even on a year to year basis.
 
See this is what I keep saying to the hand wringers. The "scab-like" players that he struggled with in 2019 are still here. No new weapons. And an offense that was a complete failure in 2019 before it was reworked for our new QB. With an unhappy Brady still here why should anyone think things would be any different than they were in 2019? Brady has had injuries before and he's played a lot better than he did a year ago. So other than wishful thinking why on earth would this year be different?

I'm not even convinced they still wouldn't be under .500 now all things being equal. We just saw what happened in the last 3 weeks where the guy at the QB position got sick. Doubt there are any TB12 products that could have stopped that.

His ceiling in Tampa was always much higher than it would have been if Bill backed up the brinks truck to keep him here. Fact. Which of course might have not even been enough as he wanted out. It is what it is.

.
Erm, I hate to point this out, but the passing game hasn’t been better this season. It’s legitimately gotten worse. So maybe those “scab-like players” were really the problem all along?
 
Erm, I hate to point this out, but the passing game hasn’t been better this season. It’s legitimately gotten worse. So maybe those “scab-like players” were really the problem all along?
He is talking in circles at this point.
 
who is better than Tampa in the NFC?

you can’t run on them even with Vita out and they have a shutdown corner in Davis. They probably have the best defense out of all the contenders and there offense still isn’t clicking on all cylinders
 
who is better than Tampa in the NFC?

you can’t run on them even with Vita out and they have a shutdown corner in Davis. They probably have the best defense out of all the contenders and there offense still isn’t clicking on all cylinders
If their D plays like that, they’re going to run through the NFC. Easily, I might add. Seattle might give them a game but Brady would shred that secondary.
 
Does anyone else suspect Mike Evans has a high ankle sprain? That's what the injury looked like initially (at best.) In the last two games, he's barely been targeted.
 
They wanted to leave. And I’ve never understood “disrespect”. It’s lame.

They played and got paid for playing according to contracts they signed. When it didn’t work for both parties, they signed new contracts and are getting paid for playing.

haha what you don’t understand the disrespect I’m sure you’re being honest
 
If their D plays like that, they’re going to run through the NFC. Easily, I might add. Seattle might give them a game but Brady would shred that secondary.

I don't think people realize just how ****ty the NFC is this season. The Seahawks and Packers are being carried by their QBs but aren't even close to elite teams. I don't even think either team would be top-3 in the AFC. The Bucs are the only NFC team capable - with their personnel - of having a top offense and top defense.
 
Erm, I hate to point this out, but the passing game hasn’t been better this season. It’s legitimately gotten worse. So maybe those “scab-like players” were really the problem all along?
Even if that were so- they're all still here, we didn't make any moves to bring anyone else in, so I'm not buying even a small bit of the argument that keeping Brady would make the passing game better this year than it was last year. Not sure why this is hard to understand. Already saw all I needed to see. Pass.
 
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