OT: Ninkovich on Mac Jones

[RobertWeathers]

Nink was a little over the top but he certainly has a lot of ammo with Mac.

 

[203Pat]

I think he thought he was going to continue to be part of Football U... I mean, Saban to Belichick, winning programs yada yada yada, then he got up here and found out that there's no attaboys and no hugs given out. I think he probably got nurtured more with JMcD than with Fat Matt and Judge the lunatic, who all were just parroting Bill's message. Billy O was probably more tough love, but by then, the damage was done. He didn't have the mental toughness to put up with Bill's ****.

I agree. I think mentally he wasn't prepared to face any sort of adversity because he never really had to before. Even in his rookie year hear he was solid for the first 2/3 of the year. Then when Patricia became OC Mac never even really tried to buy in and when the quarterback isn't buying neither will a lot of the other guys. Of course that then led to the great locker room divide with the Mac guys that Bill slowly weeded out. Billy O was then brought in but allegedly couldn't even pick his own staff and ended up with a patchwork offensive line and a line coach who went MIA middle of the season and at that point there was no salvaging any of it. In the end, Bill was too stubborn and set in his ways and Mac was too immature and limited to overcome the poor circumstances.

 

[203Pat]

Nink was a little over the top but he certainly has a lot of ammo with Mac.

Feels like there may have been a comment or issue that led to Nink being so direct and aggressive.

 

[Steve102]

I agree. I think mentally he wasn't prepared to face any sort of adversity because he never really had to before. Even in his rookie year hear he was solid for the first 2/3 of the year. Then when Patricia became OC Mac never even really tried to buy in and when the quarterback isn't buying neither will a lot of the other guys. Of course that then led to the great locker room divide with the Mac guys that Bill slowly weeded out. Billy O was then brought in but allegedly couldn't even pick his own staff and ended up with a patchwork offensive line and a line coach who went MIA middle of the season and at that point there was no salvaging any of it. In the end, Bill was too stubborn and set in his ways and Mac was too immature and limited to overcome the poor circumstances.

Yeah, I'll cosign this. I think Mac would have turned out different if JMcD had stayed here.

To Nink's point, he doesn't exude the confidence of a Franchise Leader.

 

[StanleyGrogan]

Hes right about Jones post game pressers. Same nonsense every single week. Jones is not a leader.

 

[203Pat]

Yeah, I'll cosign this. I think Mac would have turned out different if JMcD had stayed here.

To Nink's point, he doesn't exude the confidence of a Franchise Leader.

I think 2021 showed that under the right circumstances Mac could have been a Bengals, Andy Dalton level, starting quarterback. Not going to win you a lot of games but with enough help will have you in the playoff mix. Honestly part of me feels like we were better off with Mac failing and having to blow it all up rather than getting stuck with a physically limited quarterback who is just good enough to keep us in the mix for the playoffs but never good enough to actually win multiple playoff games in a season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Feels like there may have been a comment or issue that led to Nink being so direct and aggressive.

Really? I guess I missed that...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, I'll cosign this. I think Mac would have turned out different if JMcD had stayed here.

To Nink's point, he doesn't exude the confidence of a Franchise Leader.

If Josh was OC in 2022 Mac would have been "functional" no question. 3500yds 20TDs 10INTs.

He is what he is. He will wind up like Fitzmagic or Hoyer. He'll have some decent years but most will be as a backup and none as a franchise QB.

 

[203Pat]

Really? I guess I missed that...

I haven't seen anything specifically but the clip starts off with both guys saying "He doesn't like us" and then the other guy tells Nink "He doesn't like you". Feels like there may have been something that happened that led Nink to be a little more aggressive. Felt somewhat personal to me but obviously that is just a guess.

 

[vicspats]

I knew we were in trouble with how he walked in the draft and was certain he was never going to be it from his press conferences, let alone his play.

I said it so many times after games. A leader has to project, carry himself and sound a certain way and he had zero of that. He always sounded so fake and to me it seemed like he said what he thought people would want to hear instead of saying what he was thinking.

Now he could be the nicest person ever but he was easily the fakest Pats player I have ever seen talk.

We had names for kids like that growing up…

 

[vicspats]

Nink was a little over the top but he certainly has a lot of ammo with Mac.

Big man in a little coat !! … no need to pick on the scrawny kid

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

2) The personnel around him and coaching staff they hired to develop him were subpar. The coaching staff literally didn't have experience on offense in that second year. I really can't put into words how asinine, ridiculous, preposterous, etc. that was. I'm as big a fan of BB as there probably is on this board, I don't think I've ever seen a more obviously and thoroughly terrible decision by a coach than that. It's one thing for a decision to not work l

Patricia’s offense was better than BOB’s.

 

[sb1]

Patricia’s offense was better than BOB’s.

BOB did a poor job last year for a lot of reasons but he was still a viable OC.

Patricia was never a viable OC but BB hired him anyway because circle of trust and no other reason at all. There was no upside to that move. It backfired spectacularly as everyone but Bill figured it would.

Should have been canned a year before he actually was.

 

[VrabelJr]

BOB did a poor job last year for a lot of reasons but he was still a viable OC.

Patricia was never a viable OC but BB hired him anyway because circle of trust and no other reason at all. There was no upside to that move. It backfired spectacularly as everyone but Bill figured it would.

Should have been canned a year before he actually was.

Cool but explain the difference in results on the field.

 

[sb1]

Cool but explain the difference in results on the field.

Jones was a mess - in part because the year before he didn't get anything resembling the structure and coaching a sophomore young QB needed to get to develop on his rookie year. Instead he had an OC who had no idea what he was doing and just winged it on offense. Both Jones and Zappe had poor seasons in 2023. BB sent Meyers Jones's most reliable and consistent receiver packing for a broken down replacement named Juju. Other FA busts like Geisicki. The running game also regressed. The OL went from just above average in 2022 to a total dumpster fire in 2023 thanks in part to injuries forcing them to use personnel that didn't belong in the league.

And all was not well in the locker room. BB completely stopped talking to his starting QB, the story about the "toxic QB room" that we all heard and guys like Trent Brown were disgruntled and showed it. Coach Klemm basically quit on the team and had a verbal confrontation with another Patriots staffer. BOB was handicapped from day 1 by not being allowed to bring in his own staff.

I wouldn't overrate 2022's offense either, because they had some more success doesn't mean Matt Patricia was a good hire. A lot of their success came from leaning on Rhamondre a lot and it showed when he was worn down near the end. Last season even he took a big step back.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

2) The personnel around him and coaching staff they hired to develop him were subpar. The coaching staff literally didn't have experience on offense in that second year. I really can't put into words how asinine, ridiculous, preposterous, etc. that was. I'm as big a fan of BB as there probably is on this board, I don't think I've ever seen a more obviously and thoroughly terrible decision by a coach than that. It's one thing for a decision to not work out or be misguided but usually there's some logic in it. There was no logic in that. Even with a resume as great as BB's is, it wouldn't have been out of line to fire him solely for that decision because it might be the dumbest coaching move in recent memory. It legitimately pointed to incompetence. And beyond that, the personnel wasn't strong enough to make up for a QB that had limitations. Not even close.

This.

I will always be grateful for what Bill did for us.

BUT…given the facts and results of really even going back to Brady’s final season, we are left with only two possibilities:

1. Bill completely lost his fastball and became incompetent nearly overnight via either age or extreme hubris.

2. He mentally checked out, and borderline intentionally destroyed the team to screw over Kraft for some reason.


I have no honest idea which it was, but can’t really argue that something was very rotten at 1PP for several years at the end.

 

[rkarp1]

watching Mac's rookie season, I don't see much difference from numerous other QB's. Purdy. Tua. Cousins.
these guys are not winning games. they are letting others win games, and not losing games themselves.
Mac could have been that imo.
he didn't have the OL. the WR. the coaches that the other have. Look how Tua struggled under Flores. lets see what Cousins is with out O'Connell and Jefferson.
Mac smart enough to know the offense was nowhere. the coaching was non existent (year 2). no OL coach (year 3). he wanted too win. who does he go to? the HC and GM won't listen. the OC (BOB) tried, but also fell on deaf ears when he tried to convince Bill to make changes.
Brady only alluded to the team falling apart at the seams. he was able to carry the team. Mac wasn't.

 

[upstater1]

Jones was a mess - in part because the year before he didn't get anything resembling the structure and coaching a sophomore young QB needed to get to develop on his rookie year. Instead he had an OC who had no idea what he was doing and just winged it on offense. Both Jones and Zappe had poor seasons in 2023. BB sent Meyers Jones's most reliable and consistent receiver packing for a broken down replacement named Juju. Other FA busts like Geisicki. The running game also regressed. The OL went from just above average in 2022 to a total dumpster fire in 2023 thanks in part to injuries forcing them to use personnel that didn't belong in the league.

And all was not well in the locker room. BB completely stopped talking to his starting QB, the story about the "toxic QB room" that we all heard and guys like Trent Brown were disgruntled and showed it. Coach Klemm basically quit on the team and had a verbal confrontation with another Patriots staffer. BOB was handicapped from day 1 by not being allowed to bring in his own staff.

I wouldn't overrate 2022's offense either, because they had some more success doesn't mean Matt Patricia was a good hire. A lot of their success came from leaning on Rhamondre a lot and it showed when he was worn down near the end. Last season even he took a big step back.

The amount of slack people are willing to cut Mac is mind-boggling. He is a 3rd string QB at best.

What do you see in him that would make you say any of this?

 

[upstater1]

This.

I will always be grateful for what Bill did for us.

BUT…given the facts and results of really even going back to Brady’s final season, we are left with only two possibilities:

1. Bill completely lost his fastball and became incompetent nearly overnight via either age or extreme hubris.

2. He mentally checked out, and borderline intentionally destroyed the team to screw over Kraft for some reason.


I have no honest idea which it was, but can’t really argue that something was very rotten at 1PP for several years at the end.

I can't believe you even wrote this

 

[sb1]

The amount of slack people are willing to cut Mac is mind-boggling. He is a 3rd string QB at best.

What do you see in him that would make you say any of this?

Nobody is cutting him any slack and he is a 2nd string.

If anyone is cutting anyone slack here it's the former HC/GM who is no longer employed as a HC in the league.