OT: Like father - like son. Guess what Jerry Sandusky's son is charged with?

[Ring 6]

There may be a reason for someone becoming an abuser, but that doesn't mean that it is an excuse.

What they certainly need is mental help, to help break the cycle

So psychopaths aren't bad people, they only need mental help? What constitutes a bad person if every bad act is excused by "mental issues" or upbringing?

 

[Brit patriot]

So psychopaths aren't bad people, they only need mental help? What constitutes a bad person if every bad act is excused by "mental issues" or upbringing?

Not saying they aren't bad people...they have become bad people because of their surroundings. Therefore they need punished for the vile act, but also the help to fix what is broken

 

[Ring 6]

Not saying they aren't bad people...they have become bad people because of their surroundings. Therefore they need punished for the vile act, but also the help to fix what is broken

Maybe they are just broken? Jerry Sandusky isn't the monster he is because if his surroundings. He is a vile predator who needs to be locked away forever. There is no fixing what is broken in that man.

 

[Brit patriot]

Maybe they are just broken? Jerry Sandusky isn't the monster he is because if his surroundings. He is a vile predator who needs to be locked away forever. There is no fixing what is broken in that man.

When did I minimise it by saying they were 'just broken'? If you want to engage with me, do yourself a favour and don't misquote, either out of lack of comprehension or deliberate distorting.

I said they were bad people, I said they needed punishing for their vile actions.

Senior is dying in prison, but younger people who will be released need therapy as they will be released and you don't need them to not reoffend. You can't do the internet thing of jailing forever or thinking of medieval types of punishment. I am sure your constitution says something about that.

These people are a problem, and likely their formative years have been part of making that up. Therefore as they will be released, trying to fix that should be the priority.

We get it, you don't like sex abuse...well done. Some of use like to think beyond that virtue signalling.

 

[Ring 6]

When did I minimise it by saying they were 'just broken'? If you want to engage with me, do yourself a favour and don't misquote, either out of lack of comprehension or deliberate distorting.

I said they were bad people, I said they needed punishing for their vile actions.

Senior is dying in prison, but younger people who will be released need therapy as they will be released and you don't need them to not reoffend. You can't do the internet thing of jailing forever or thinking of medieval types of punishment. I am sure your constitution says something about that.

These people are a problem, and likely their formative years have been part of making that up. Therefore as they will be released, trying to fix that should be the priority.

We get it, you don't like sex abuse...well done. Some of use like to think beyond that virtue signalling.

Don't allow your lack of comprehension or deliberate distorting to misquote me either.

 

[Ring 6]

When did I minimise it by saying they were 'just broken'? If you want to engage with me, do yourself a favour and don't misquote, either out of lack of comprehension or deliberate distorting.

I said they were bad people, I said they needed punishing for their vile actions.

Senior is dying in prison, but younger people who will be released need therapy as they will be released and you don't need them to not reoffend. You can't do the internet thing of jailing forever or thinking of medieval types of punishment. I am sure your constitution says something about that.

These people are a problem, and likely their formative years have been part of making that up. Therefore as they will be released, trying to fix that should be the priority.

We get it, you don't like sex abuse...well done. Some of use like to think beyond that virtue signalling.

You blamed them being bad people on their surroundings. It's right there in your own words.
Jerry Sandusky did not become "bad" because of his surroundings. He is evil.
What is broken in him cannot be fixed.

 

[Brit patriot]

Don't allow your lack of comprehension or deliberate distorting to misquote me either.

If you don't understand how changing what I said from 'broken' to 'just broken' completely changes the context of the point i was making, words fail me.

 

[Ring 6]

If you don't understand how changing what I said from 'broken' to 'just broken' completely changes the context of the point i was making, words fail me.

If you don't understand it is ridiculous to blame "surroundings" for what jerry Sandusky did to dozens of children, words fail me.

 

[Brit patriot]

You blamed them being bad people on their surroundings. It's right there in your own words.
Jerry Sandusky did not become "bad" because of his surroundings. He is evil.
What is broken in him cannot be fixed.

Every psychologist will tell you it is more than just one factor...what I said was that the surroundings CONTRIBUTE to it. It isn't the only factor, but it is likely a major one.

As I said, those serving shorter sentences need to get the help they need. Either that, or you throw your hands up, say they are evil, and just wait for them to reoffend so you can bang them up again. Evidence says some can be helped, and some are gone. I would rather society do its bit to minimise re-offending where it can.

 

[Brit patriot]

If you don't understand it is ridiculous to blame "surroundings" for what jerry Sandusky did to dozens of children, words fail me.

When did I blame the surroundings? I said they are are a contributing factor to the eventual make up of a person. However, that person still has freedom of choice. If they didn't, we would decriminalise everything someone who had a **** childhood had done.

As you seem to be deliberately misquoting and trying to paint me a pedo apologist, and I know people only go to the last page and won't trawl through the conversation, I will withdraw

 

[Ring 6]

Every psychologist will tell you it is more than just one factor...what I said was that the surroundings CONTRIBUTE to it. It isn't the only factor, but it is likely a major one.

As I said, those serving shorter sentences need to get the help they need. Either that, or you throw your hands up, say they are evil, and just wait for them to reoffend so you can bang them up again. Evidence says some can be helped, and some are gone. I would rather society do its bit to minimise re-offending where it can.

This is what you said

Not saying they aren't bad people...they have become bad people because of their surroundings

Don't act all uppity with me then move the goalposts.

 

[Ring 6]

When did I blame the surroundings? I said they are are a contributing factor to the eventual make up of a person. However, that person still has freedom of choice. If they didn't, we would decriminalise everything someone who had a **** childhood had done.

As you seem to be deliberately misquoting and trying to paint me a pedo apologist, and I know people only go to the last page and won't trawl through the conversation, I will withdraw

I quoted your exact words in my last post.
I'm not trying to paint you as a pedo apologists I'm saying you need to realize everyone doesn't have an excuse for what they do, some people are not "fixable", there is such a thing as accountability and we aren't all unique snowflakes who can blame everything on how we grew up.

 

[Brit patriot]

This is what you said



Don't act all uppity with me then move the goalposts.

Yeah, this isn't contradictory. This is all about contributory factors. We are talking about people who have been abused making up 90% of future abusers. If that is random and those number just magically became abusers themselves and it had nothing to do with their violent childhood experiences, I'm a Dutchman

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, this isn't contradictory. This is all about contributory factors. We are talking about people who have been abused making up 90% of future abusers. If that is random and those number just magically became abusers themselves and it had nothing to do with their violent childhood experiences, I'm a Dutchman

So Dutch, which is it? You didn't say it or you agree with scapegoating what child molestors do on "surroundings"

 

[Brit patriot]

So Dutch, which is it? You didn't say it or you agree with scapegoating what child molestors do on "surroundings"

It is a contributory factor, but doesn't absolve them of personal responsibility...I have stated this before, the fact you seem to be unable to comprehend that strikes me you are a wind up merchant. I bid you good evening

 

[SalemPats]

put him in solitary until he dies

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Sad and sick as others have said. I don't think the "Paterno Legacy" can get out from under this. One of his closest associates was clearly a very sick guy with a very sick family. Paterno was told about it and chose to kick it upstairs or ignore it.

Joe Pa was either oblivious to what was going on around him, and therefore complicit.

Or he was aware of what was going on around him, and therefore complicit.

I don't think that larger than life statue is coming back anytime soon. It also wouldn't surprise me if the school doesn't cut a deal with the family to rename the Library. I can't imagine that the family has reliable sources of income and some sort of arrangement can probably be worked out. Best for everyone.

 

[Ring 6]

It is a contributory factor, but doesn't absolve them of personal responsibility...I have stated this before, the fact you seem to be unable to comprehend that strikes me you are a wind up merchant. I bid you good evening

That is NOT what you said. I quoted what you said.
Look, we aren't solving world hunger here. I think that the approach that every little snowflake is precious and they aren't bad people if they do bad things, they just learnt wrong or didn't get the right drugs, is an anathema. There are plenty of awful people in the world who do awful things by choice.
You seem to want to separate the act from the person and find value in the person despite the act.
All good, we just have a very different outlook on personal responsibility, and society's love to absolve people of their evil.

I'm sure in the statistics that are kept, which we can all agree are at best absurdly incomplete, those abused will abuse. But those abuse also become active in fighting to stop abuse and protect the vulnerable. I doubt many victims of abuse would share your 'lets fix him he was raised wrong and we can teach him why sexually abusing a CHILD is wrong' belief.

In any event, we couldn't disagree more on this, so I will spare the board another word.

 

[Ring 6]

Sad and sick as others have said. I don't think the "Paterno Legacy" can get out from under this. One of his closest associates was clearly a very sick guy with a very sick family. Paterno was told about it and chose to kick it upstairs or ignore it.

Joe Pa was either oblivious to what was going on around him, and therefore complicit.

Or he was aware of what was going on around him, and therefore complicit.

I don't think that larger than life statue is coming back anytime soon. It also wouldn't surprise me if the school doesn't cut a deal with the family to rename the Library. I can't imagine that the family has reliable sources of income and some sort of arrangement can probably be worked out. Best for everyone.

I think this is part of the problem of how society views celebrity. Because Joe Paterno won football games, he must be a good guy. He sounded like it. Buy Widgets from XYZ Corp because Tom Brady likes them and if a guy is a good football player he must know. Look at all the ridiculousness about celebrity endorsements/opinions in the election. Why in the world I would value someones opinion on the candidates because they can sing, dance, act, play a sport, etc is beyond me.

I think Joe Paterno was a highly successful football coach, and his legacy as a coach is just that.

I also think Joe Paterno was a despicable human being, and also a phony.

He can be both. See Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson, Gary Condit, etc, etc

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

Several thoughts on this. Jeff is the almost exactly the same age as Jerry when Joe Paterno all but certainly knew he was a pediophile in 1976. Is the age of 41 'set in your ways?' In general, I'd say yes compounded by I've heard that sex offenders have the highest repeat rates (OK, I don't have links.) At one job I dealt with with a co-worker that had similar problems and he could not control himself, nor recognize his behavior was a problem. He was eventually terminated. Maybe it's treatable, but my first-hand experience makes me a skeptic. If Jeff was in his teens, maybe chemical castration and therapy, but he's well past that. FWIW, I'm a layperson.

I have wanted to believe that Joe Paterno was an otherwise good man/role model with the tragic exception of his blind eye to Jerry Sandusky. Had he done something, the athletic department would still do well - his reputation would have attracted good defensive coordinators...his image might have been enhanced for culling Jerry. Now the question is what else did Paterno have a blind eye to? It turns out that about six months before the scandal, Paterno was negotiating a buyout package and possibly leave in 2011, but it was too late.

The sad thing is public figures very, very frequently disappoint, in sports, entertainment, politics, business. It's rare that one of these will be a saint or even a decent person. I just expect to be disappointed if I find out what these public figures really are like.

There must be a reason most sex offenders are male - they can't control their manhood. May not be the entire issue, but if it wasn't why so few female sex offenders? As far as the Sandusky's being evil, I don't rule it out.